Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

[TimboM]

RAIL Magazine have posted on their Facebook regarding the new stock (https://www.facebook.com/Railmagazi...kry68PGaAdKWasJKBcENDK2jITGMoEhLRo8ro&fref=nf)

Of note, they're reporting no 73/9 will now travel to Velim for testing (it will be done by a continental loco there now apparently) and 73/9 and 92 testing will now be done in the UK when the coaches arrive here.

Also, the five coaches are 2x seats, 2x sleeper cars, 1x club/lounge car, which is slightly different to the consist previously reported on here (1x seats vice 1x sleeper car). Looking at Tam's pics/video again, the consist reported by RAIL does appear correct.

The first five of 75 Caledonian Sleeper Mk 5 coaches have moved to the Velim test track in the Czech Republic for testing.
Built by CAF in Beasain (northern Spain), the vehicles were taken by road to Hendaye in France, from where they were transported by rail across Europe. The coaches are two seat coaches, two Sleepers and a club car.
Caledonian Sleeper Production and Safety Director David Simpson told RAIL on August 22 that the dynamic testing to be carried out at the Czech track will use a continental locomotive, rather than a CS Class 73/9 as originally planned.

 

[Clansman]

Thanks for sharing.

Each coach is definitely identifiable now.

EDIT: Changed thread title as 73s are no longer heading to Czech Republic.

 

[squizzler]

I don't think the doors are that far below standard UK platform height. They may well be lower than the Mk3 doors though. Modern trains have a 1100mm internal floor height but I think the Mk3s are at a more traditional height (probable, given that they had to inter-operate with Mk1/2 stock). On the Stadler sets the bottom of the door is about the height of the top of the bogie sets and the internal floor can't be flat all the way through. Their design only works with doors in the middle of the carriage where the floors can be lower, so unless CAF have fitted toytown bogies I think the floor will be normal. Aren't those the Flexx Eco bogies fitted to the 700/80x trailers?

Some detail shots.

The builder plate on the bogie in the photo seems to identify it as "CAF Mark 5" which implies it is an in house design. I do not think the Flexx Eco is fitted to either the 700 or the 80x trailers which have Siemens and (presumably) Hitachi implementations respectively.

But can anyone advise if this inside frame design will feature on the CAF MU stock? I've only seen CGI renders which

 

[Tam]

Of note, they're reporting no 73/9 will now travel to Velim for testing (it will be done by a continental loco there now apparently) and 73/9 and 92 testing will now be done in the UK when the coaches arrive here.

Which might explain the two men with the big stick last night. They appeared to be measuring the length of the coupling and how far into the body of the coach it recessed.

 

[TimboM]

Which might explain the two men with the big stick last night. They appeared to be measuring the length of the coupling and how far into the body of the coach it recessed.

Sounds very technical...!

You can see them back in the office. "What have we got loco-wise that might fit these here new coaches we're supposed to be testing...???"

 

[Scotrail84]

Sounds very technical...!

You can see them back in the office. "What have we got loco-wise that might fit these here new coaches we're supposed to be testing...???"

What was the point in fitting the 73 with the new coupler just now if its not going to test these coaches abroad.

 

[TimboM]

What was the point in fitting the 73 with the new coupler just now if its not going to test these coaches abroad.

To keep enough locos in service and with one at a time going into Brush I expected they needed to start the mods anyway when they did to get through the programme of modifying all the locos on time (per the original planned timings at least). I also suspect ditching the 73/9 excursion to the Czech Republic has been a relatively recent change of plan to try and speed things up a bit (or possibly due to availability as per below).

They've done 2 so far (971/967), another one in at the moment (968), plus 969 will get its done whilst the collision damage is repaired. 966 has also been in Brush for about 6 weeks now so you'd think it'd appear with new couplings whenever it's released.

The stays 966 and 969 have had at Brush may also have impacted the availability of a loco to be in Velim for a few weeks (and the transit time). With 968 in Brush too and the Colas 47 out of the picture currently there isn't a lot of slack in the diesel fleet currently in Scotland (as you'll know!)

The first couple of 73s to be done have taken about 5-6 weeks to do, so to get all ready when doing them pretty much one at a time will take a few months. And then there's the 92s (x10? or x12?) to do, none of which so far have had Dellners fitted. They might just get them all done for the planned start date of April 2018.

 

[Scotrail84]

To keep enough locos in service and with one at a time going into Brush I expected they needed to start the mods anyway when they did to get through the programme of modifying all the locos on time (per the original planned timings at least). I also suspect ditching the 73/9 excursion to the Czech Republic has been a relatively recent change of plan to try and speed things up a bit (or possibly due to availability as per below).

They've done 2 so far (971/967), another one in at the moment (968), plus 969 will get its done whilst the collision damage is repaired. 966 has also been in Brush for about 6 weeks now so you'd think it'd appear with new couplings whenever it's released.

The stays 966 and 969 have had at Brush may also have impacted the availability of a loco to be in Velim for a few weeks (and the transit time). With 968 in Brush too and the Colas 47 out of the picture currently there isn't a lot of slack in the diesel fleet currently in Scotland (as you'll know!)

The first couple of 73s to be done have taken about 5-6 weeks to do, so to get all ready when doing them pretty much one at a time will take a few months. And then there's the 92s (x10? or x12?) to do, none of which so far have had Dellners fitted. They might just get them all done for the planned start date of April 2018.

The modified 73s are a pain in the arse as they come up from craigy without a screw coupling on or it's on the wrong end on arrival as the shunters/drivers at craigy haven't bothered to swap them round. They should never had had buckeyes on them in the first place as we knew they were going to get modified in the near future.

 

[crunchie48]

Interesting question.

Waverley 16 (but couldn't accept that during the morning peak hence why if there's a problem 16 go to Central).
Central 14 (regularly, 16 by exception).
Aberdeen 16 (taking 6S and N - it will take 12 megas across both those platforms).
Inverness 12 (inside the signals).
Fort William 10.

Based on Mk5 lengths.

In a fantasy world, if each of the five services was to be a separate train (with enough stock, locos, etc), how many (new) coaches could each terminus take? Not that the Aberdeen one would need to be long of course.

 

[crunchie48]

They were historically fitted with buckeyes. Not the locos fault that someone can't do their job and set the coupling up for arrival at Waverley.

The modified 73s are a pain in the arse as they come up from craigy without a screw coupling on or it's on the wrong end on arrival as the shunters/drivers at craigy haven't bothered to swap them round. They should never had had buckeyes on them in the first place as we knew they were going to get modified in the near future.

 

[Scotrail84]

They were historically fitted with buckeyes. Not the locos fault that someone can't do their job and set the coupling up for arrival at Waverley.

Aye so they knew the buckeyes were coming off so why not just remove them when they bought the locos and then use the draw hook with screw coupling.

 

[[email protected].]

Just found this article showing inside, hope it helps,

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b...leepers-hotel-standard-coaches-ready-testing/

 

[TimboM]

Just found this article showing inside, hope it helps,

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b...leepers-hotel-standard-coaches-ready-testing/

Thanks for saving us having to root around for those. They're from the mock-ups they did several months ago - will be interesting to see how the real interiors compare in due course.

Some of Tam's "Bond" shots suggest the sinks/taps are at least similar.

 

[zn1]

as memory serves dropheads were and are fitted to the 73's. It is not hard to drop one, once upon a time drivers and Guards were able to do this task

 

[bastien]

So do all those cables etc. need to be plugged and unplugged every time the sets are split and joined? And do the gangway bellows work automatically?

 

[43096]

Aye so they knew the buckeyes were coming off so why not just remove them when they bought the locos and then use the draw hook with screw coupling.

Because the buckeyes were right for use with the existing stock.

 

[Bletchleyite]

So do all those cables etc. need to be plugged and unplugged every time the sets are split and joined?

Yes (which does make one wonder why they didn't just use standard buckeyes so they could couple to any loco). I recall that the reason it's not on the autocoupler is that nobody makes an autocoupler which can handle the kind of ETH loads these will need.

 

[TimboM]

Yes (which does make one wonder why they didn't just use standard buckeyes so they could couple to any loco). I recall that the reason it's not on the autocoupler is that nobody makes an autocoupler which can handle the kind of ETH loads these will need.

Also, the locos (92s + 73/9s) that will be providing the ETS do this via cables and whilst I expect it wouldn't have been impossible to make modifications so the power could go through the autocoupler (the loads point aside) it would've added further complexity/cost/time to the coupling and ETS mods required to all the locos prior to the new stock.

 

[Scotrail84]

as memory serves dropheads were and are fitted to the 73's. It is not hard to drop one, once upon a time drivers and Guards were able to do this task

I'm not sure if you're having a dig a sleeper guards and drivers or not. I can assure you that all that guards and drivers are competent at coupling and shunting and guards are are assessed on this regularly.

 

[Sarahs_Railway]

Having read through this forum last night I was lucky enough to be in the right place to photograph the current layout of couplings etc on 73971 whilst she was stabled at the Fort William Oil Terminal earlier today.
I hope this helps!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/35967120274/in/dateposted-public/

 

[Scotrail84]

Having read through this forum last night I was lucky enough to be in the right place to photograph the current layout of couplings etc on 73971 whilst she was stabled at the Fort William Oil Terminal earlier today.
I hope this helps!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/149563882@N07/35967120274/in/dateposted-public/

Theres a 73 going about with a new coupler that is not bagged and tagged.

 

[TimboM]

Theres a 73 going about with a new coupler that is not bagged and tagged.

73967 (the other modified so far) had a bag on in this pic from a couple of weeks ago, but a transparent shrink-wrap affair so you can see what's going on more... https://flic.kr/p/XJ2QmM (not mine)

Maybe it's fallen off since (or not one on the other end)?

Presumably the coverings are to stop the new couplings getting clogged up with grime over the next few months.

 

[43096]

Yes (which does make one wonder why they didn't just use standard buckeyes so they could couple to any loco). I recall that the reason it's not on the autocoupler is that nobody makes an autocoupler which can handle the kind of ETH loads these will need.

Quite. We've had (semi-)auto couplers on coaching stock since at least the Mark 1 build. It's very MDTR to change that now for something completely different and incompatible that doesn't seem to offer much, if any, benefit.

 

[Tam]

The coaches were still standing in the siding at Velim station today. The security guard there today (a wee wifie in a car) stopped a couple of locals from taking photos and tried to stop me too (without leaving her car), but thanks to the language barrier, I had no idea what she was talking about. As I left, she was on the phone alerting HQ that some British bloke with a camera was risking national security.

I wonder if security will be tighter when the coaches do eventually reach the test centre? The track is 13km long and encloses villages and farms. The inner loop has paths running alongside much of its length, so it will be difficult to stop the likes of me getting photos and videos once the testing starts.

 

[TimboM]

The coaches were still standing in the siding at Velim station today. The security guard there today (a wee wifie in a car) stopped a couple of locals from taking photos and tried to stop me too (without leaving her car), but thanks to the language barrier, I had no idea what she was talking about. As I left, she was on the phone alerting HQ that some British bloke with a camera was risking national security.

I wonder if security will be tighter when the coaches do eventually reach the test centre? The track is 13km long and encloses villages and farms. The inner loop has paths running alongside much of its length, so it will be difficult to stop the likes of me getting photos and videos once the testing starts.

Bit late for them to tighten up security now

Reckon given the excellent shots/videos you've got already you should lay low for a while until they're out on the test track... Keep 'em guessing

 

[Far north 37]

Aye so they knew the buckeyes were coming off so why not just remove them when they bought the locos and then use the draw hook with screw coupling.

sounds like another instance of enthusiasts on forums claiming they know better than the guys on the ground that run the services

 

[Scotrail84]

sounds like another instance of enthusiasts on forums claiming they know better than the guys on the ground that run the services

Sorry, what do you mean?

 

[mushroomchow]

They look super plush. Looking forward to a trip on these.

Since I'm never satisfied without getting in some sort of grumble, could somebody explain why such large sections of the seating cars appear to have no windows? I'm guessing it's an extended vestibule, but having had to endure the horrific seat alignment on a Meridian recently (90 minutes with no window - glorious!) I'm always wary about anything with a lot of metal on show. :roll: It's a primarily scenic train, so it would be one hell of a letdown to get on-board to find you've got nowhere to enjoy the view during daylight travel!

Also, is there any truth in something I heard earlier about introducing a Far North sleeper service, and if so is old stock being retained for this purpose or are more Mk 5s being considered? I travelled the route once and, while an enjoyable journey with some wonderful scenery, 4 hours on a 158 with a trolley service doesn't do it justice - though the oil rig worker getting slowly more drunk as he took a dram each time it passed was an upside!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Like the present stock the seated coaches are also brake vehicles with a van area of some kind, I believe.

 

[Clansman]

They look super plush. Looking forward to a trip on these.

Since I'm never satisfied without getting in some sort of grumble, could somebody explain why such large sections of the seating cars appear to have no windows? I'm guessing it's an extended vestibule, but having had to endure the horrific seat alignment on a Meridian recently (90 minutes with no window - glorious!) I'm always wary about anything with a lot of metal on show. :roll:

They are large storage areas, equipped to handle everything from bikes to crates of live shellfish.