Caledonian Sleeper Mk5 Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 4 Jan 2016.

  1. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    First thing's first, after reading through the Caledonian Sleeper Discussion thread I give permission for an admin to move this to the thread should they see fit.

    What's the latest on the new sleeper carriages? I read an article a couple of months ago on Rail Magazine on the sleeper and it states that mockups of the carriages were due last autumn but as far as I'm aware there has been no such release.

     
    Last edited: 4 Jan 2016
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  3. 100andthirty

    100andthirty Member

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    There is another article in Rail magazine 791 received today which talks about the mock ups in the future tense
     
  4. kevin5025

    kevin5025 Member

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    I see the Rail article only quotes the Scottish Government funding. Transport Scotland only mentions this funding, but in fact there is match funding from the UK government - see http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/nov/29/sleeper-trains-london-scotland-50m. Transport Scotland seems to be an SNP mouthpiece so they don't mention this funding, hence journalists don't report it.

    Interesting to hear about the mock ups being on the way. I am curious as to how the new sets will be introduced. Will they replace entire sets, or will individual coaches be replaced as the new ones become available. The latter would only work where they are the same interior make up, for booking systems.
     
  5. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    You've answered your own question: the interiors are different.
     
  6. kevin5025

    kevin5025 Member

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    Sorry, I should have explained that more clearly. The lounge and seated cars will have similar interiors, so in theory, they could be swapped as individual vehicles. I wonder if CS will swap them once they arrive allowing them to retire the Mk2's early, as they must be the vehicles that are most difficult to source spare parts for. Would we see Mk5's running with Mk3 sleepers?

    The other coaches have different interiors. Even the sleepers have a couple (or more) of ensuite cabins, so they wouldn't be able to swap individual vehicles. But, they could swap, for example, one Mk5 sleeper for a Mk3 on each set, and update the reservations system accordingly. Are they likely to do either, or will we see the new coaches introduced as complete sets all at once?
     
  7. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I would expect complete sets - if nothing else the CDL may not be compatible.
     
  8. Philip Phlopp

    Philip Phlopp Established Member

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    There's an issue with consist length, platform length and signal positioning at Euston which limits the length of the Sleeper, the new stock is being built to 22m length to meet this restriction. That will limit what way round any substitution of Mark 2 for Mark 5 vehicles can take place. Mark 3 to Mark 5 substitution isn't a significant issue.

    I don't know if semi-auto auto-couplers are to be used, they were the intended method of operation with Nightstar, if that's the case, then the Mark 2 and Mark 3 coaches today might not be able to couple to the new stock.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jan 2016
  9. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    As Neil Williams seems to suggest, is it even possible for automatic and slam door fitted stock to work together in passenger service? I would have thought there would be a number of issues concerning door operation and locking surrounding that.

    I strongly suspect that the new Caledonian Sleeper stock will enter service as complete rakes.
     
    Last edited: 6 Jan 2016
  10. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    I can't see an operational problem with making this stock CDL compatible - after all, locked/unlocked is easily translated into controlling a sliding door, and in Europe a mix of coach types all using UIC door control is common.

    However, as there is no requirement to do this, I would suspect the new coaches will have a more modern, incompatible system for that - and other things like fire detection.
     
  11. sprinterguy

    sprinterguy Established Member

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    Thanks for that - so definitely not as complex as I think, but still unlikely.
     
  12. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    As briefly reported by Rail Magazine today;

    http://www.railmagazine.com/news/network/czech-trip-for-caledonian-sleeper-class-73

    Looks like we can be expecting some more coverage on the Mk5s in the coming weeks given that a 73 has been sent abroad to test them. Although knowing CAF's tight lip way of doing things, we won't here a thing! Hopefully, there will be some photos in Rail 818.
     
    Last edited: 24 Aug 2017
  13. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Interesting. I knew construction had started, but didn't realise it was that far along.
     
  14. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Photos of body shells were released in June last year, so there's bound to be at least a full carriage completed externally or near enough anyway.
     
  15. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    Yeah, but I'd imagine they've got close to a full rake complete internally for it to be worth tying up a loco over there for testing.
     
    Last edited: 16 Jan 2017
  16. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Suppose so.

    Just a shame CAF are keeping tight lips on this so far, compared to what the likes of Hitachi and Bombardier are like.

    They've not even updated the Caledonian Sleeper section of their pages since the initial order of the Mk5s was made.
     
  17. CosherB

    CosherB On Moderation

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    Do we know yet which 73/9 is off on holiday? I presume it's had the alternator mod done?
     
  18. Smudger105e

    Smudger105e Member

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    73969 is having collision damage repairs and CAF couplers fitted. Can't say if thats the one going as the repair and conversion work are going to take quite some time.

    Sent from my SM-G800F using Tapatalk
     
  19. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    I hope that they're sending a 66 to help it out. [emoji38]
     
  20. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Would not surprise me in the slightest :D
     
  21. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    Nah just use an old Cesky Drahy electric :D
     
  22. TimboM

    TimboM Established Member

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    You'd think they'd need to send a 92 over at some point for testing too, given they'll be hauling the largest rakes for the longest distances. If they can spare one that is...
     
  23. Roast Veg

    Roast Veg Member

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    They only need to know that the ETS system works first. If it works, and then there is a subsequent issue with large rakes, that can be solved after delivery.
     
  24. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    Is that the only test facility they can use? That seems an awfully long way to go to test a British loco and Spanish carriages?
     
  25. 59CosG95

    59CosG95 Established Member

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    I think the fact that it has such high speeds over relatively flat ground means that it's more ideal for pushing stock to the limits. Old Dalby doesn't quite have that.
     
  26. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    I'm surprised CAF don't have access to a facility in Spain for example
     
  27. daikilo

    daikilo Established Member

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    Funny you should mention that, I think the funding got blocked by Europe on the basis that Velim exists (with significqnt EU contribution) and is not overloaded.
     
  28. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

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    What?! The EU chose to avoid duplication of effort. When did that start happening?

    (I'm looking at you Strasbourg / Brussels).
     
    Last edited: 18 Jan 2017
  29. Mikey C

    Mikey C Established Member

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    I'm surprised Velim isn't busier, if most of Europe uses it to test new stock?
     
  30. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Has anyone read the featured article about the 73s and Mk5s in the Rail Magazine?

    Just curious as I don't often take an interest in most of the content (unless local to me) to actually buy it.
     
  31. gimmea50anyday

    gimmea50anyday Established Member

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    Must be nearly finished. They have started on TPE bodyshells
     

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