Caledonian Sleeper

Discussion in 'UK Railway Discussion' started by Essexman, 10 Jan 2019.

  1. John Bishop

    John Bishop Member

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    That’s disgraceful for new coaching stock! Very poor.
     
  2. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    Luxury..... travel. It really is poor quality. They spent long enough designing, building and testing. These are basics. It’s not odd stuff that people didn’t think of and couldn’t test.

    But the usual acolytes will be saying “well, it’s new”, “what do you expect?”, “at least you have a good chance of a free trip”.

    Totally missing the point. It’s cost a fortune. It’s not good enough.
     
  3. 31160

    31160 Member

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    Doesn't really encourage hope in the TPE MK5s either though does it
     
  4. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    I did think that. The heating control is probably bespoke to the sleeper. The others seem to be core electrics, and common across the mk5 fleet. I suspect they will be same components in other CAF units as well.....
     
  5. 33Hz

    33Hz Member

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    A year's delay for additional testing, 4 months in service and they haven't got to the bottom of stuff like the thermostat wired backwards? Disgraceful.
     
  6. kingqueen

    kingqueen Member

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    I traveled on those on Thursday.
    They were very good. Much better than the 185s. A couple of issues with the passenger information system, no WiFi and the emergency call point in the loo is precisely at wheelchair wheel doofing height, but minor things. So much better.
     
  7. SteveM70

    SteveM70 Member

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    Minor maybe, but in the case of the emergency call point eminently foreseeable. Stuff like that should be right first time
     
  8. mirodo

    mirodo Member

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    Is the service being run by Hamish and Dougal?

    "Good evening sir, and welcome to the Caledonian Sleeper. You'll have had your tea?".
     
  9. Struner

    Struner Member

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    lol :lol:
     
  10. M7R

    M7R Member

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    :lol:
     
  11. Sleepy

    Sleepy Member

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    So so glad Night Riveria didn't go for new stock !! <(o_Oo_O
     
  12. TimboM

    TimboM Established Member

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    Long enough testing?? Are you sure!?
     
  13. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    They started testing at Velim in August. 2017. And all the CAD design and testing before..... they are carriages. To a design that uses standardised controls and sorts wherever possible.
     
  14. PG

    PG Member

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    The mere fact that the host knew about the backwards thermostat suggests that it's not a one-off fault but a common one on the mk5 fleet - which IIRC is 75 coaches - was CAF's quality control done in siesta hour :rolleyes:

    Perhaps Basil Fawlty could feature in some new CS adverts... 'Our new coaches...their from Barcelona' :lol:
     
  15. gazthomas

    gazthomas Established Member

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    Well you know what they say CAF means in Europe? Cheap As F..k
     
  16. Caleb2010

    Caleb2010 Member

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    But who would Basil slap/hit with a spoon/ kick?

    Answers on a postcard to ...........
     
  17. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Embarrasing
     
  18. IKB

    IKB Member

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    For my two cents worth I think they have probably over engineered these trains / made the spec too high.
    The MK3's needed replacing, but if you look at the interior spec of upgraded Night Riviera I think that is more suitable.
    Toilets and showers in cabins increases maintenance/cleaning costs and adds in another potential failure point. I think a shower facility at the start/end station is sufficient.
    The aim should be to keep overheads as low as possible - give people a clean and comfortable bed to get from A to B. Bunks are sufficient. Double beds eat into capacity.
    Have friendly hosts in the lounge car - my experiences have not been great on the Caledonian sleeper. If you advertise a menu, actually have the items in stock. On a fully booked train from Fort Bill in the middle of the summer leaving at dinner time, don't only have two haggis in stock. etc etc.
     
  19. Antman

    Antman Established Member

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    But it’s priced as a hotel on wheels, not a tent.

    And it has loads of time to be maintained, serviced and cleaned. Yet more excuses for what has been delivered..... many many people don’t want to use an airport style shower. They expect and are paying for glamorous luxury travel.
     
  20. Struner

    Struner Member

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    They meaning?
     
  21. trebor79

    trebor79 Established Member

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    Have you used the shower on the train? Next time I travel on the sleeper I'll be going classic and taking the shower at the station on the basis that the water will be hot. And it's cheaper.
    The shower on the train is not luxury, it's the sort of affair you might find in a static caravan.
    Although admittedly the en suite toilet was very useful.

    I enjoyed my trip. The level of moaning on here is out of all proportion really.
     
  22. Mainliner

    Mainliner Member

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    The ‘level of moaning on here’ is nothing compared to many Tripadvisor reviews. Latest one:

    https://www.tripadvisor.co.uk/ShowU...iam_Lochaber_Scottish_Highlands_Scotland.html

    Clearly, for the prices charged, (and on what they are led to believe by the advertising), people are expecting rather more than a caravan/motor home experience.
     
  23. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    To be fair a lot of the moaning is justified when it centres around either the cbr, or the small aspects which are absent on the Mk5s which had otherwise made the Mk3 travel experience much better. If Serco can get the design of the berths right and adjust the minor grumblings that contribute massively to passenger experience, and sort out the 'teething issues' which have been going on waaaay to long, then people will notice the major difference which the Mk5s provide. Admittedly there are areas where the Mk5s will never match the Mk3s, but the same goes vice versa, so I'd like to assume that once if Serco get their act together then people will see the Mk5s on their merits, and not their shortfalls compared to the Mk3s. And to be honest, I'm struggling to do that just now.

    Passengers tend to base their opinions on few negatives, rather than the huge positives. It's a habbit most of us have probably had at some stage. Where there's one negativity or difference, the whole thing's knackered. This is no exception with the Mk5s. Sort out the little stuff, and the rest will follow.

    It feels like most negative reviews are following the same sort of pattern which justifies this. Something along the lines of;

    "Food? Great. Service? Great. Shower? Adequate. Punctuality? Great. En-suite functioning? Great. Ride quality? Adequate. Comfort? Great. Sleep? Undisturbed. Space? Awful, can't move the ladder and the plug sockets and wifi didn't work. 1 out of 5, and I will not be back"


    I have heard of people complaining of taps being either too hot or too cold on the Mk5s, without realising that there is an adjustable handle as opposed to two taps. Or people who expect a silent ride despite common sense dictating that it is simply unachievable when moving through cross country on Victorian alignments at 80mph. By all means complain where it's justified, but a few need to rethink their parameters. But at the end of the day, the one's who need to do this most is Serco.
     
    Last edited: 5 Sep 2019
  24. PG

    PG Member

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    Since I've only read the whole 149 pages of this thread (phew) which only started at the beginning of the year excuse me asking -
    • Did Serco get any other bidders for the new sleeper stock?
      • If so were they more expensive than CAF or cheaper?
    Just wondering if it's a question of gullibility (Serco) or culpability (CAF) ? - or more probably both !
     
  25. GusB

    GusB Established Member

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    If you're up for a bit of further reading, you may wish to delve into the previous (now closed) thread. Another 286 pages should keep you busy for a while ;)

    https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/caledonian-sleeper-discussion.118802/
     
  26. Journeyman

    Journeyman Established Member

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    Very few people are willing to build small runs of completely non-standard stock. I'm not sure if many other bidders were involved, but as far as I can tell, pretty much the only people willing to contemplate a small bespoke build at an even remotely sensible price would be CAF or Stadler, and in this case, CAF had already done a lot of the basic design work as DRS had held some discussions with them about a new loco-hauled design a few years ago. Therefore, the basic parameters of the vehicle were already established. Hence the winning of the TPE Mark 5 order as well.

    People don't seem to realise that a lot of rolling stock builders specialize in particular things. When I did some work for the Edinburgh tram project, a lot of people complained that the trams weren't being built by Alexander-Dennis in Falkirk! They don't build trams, they build buses. Likewise, a lot of people have moaned that Caledonian Sleeper should have given the work to Bombardier in Derby - but they didn't bid for it, because it's not what they do. Bombardier build large runs of standardized designs, which is fine if that's what you want, but it's no good if you need something customized.
     
  27. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    Anyone aware if there's any rough plan for the Mk5 fleet to enter service on the Highlander Routes?

    Have read they might start on the week commencing 23rd September, as some sort of soft launch. The website is definitely selling bookings for the new train from the 30th September.
     
  28. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    The Lowlander is a lot steadier in the past two weeks but that date seems very risky to me.
     
  29. superalbs

    superalbs Established Member

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    I am booked in late-September, so as much as it will be interesting to get the new fleet, I hope it doesn't end up in a horrid bus journey - for any part of the route! We will see, I am at the edge of my seat.
     
  30. MrEd

    MrEd Member

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    I was on the Highlander southbound from Inverness a couple of nights ago and one of the Inverness crew said that he too had heard 23rd September as a possible introduction date (although he did stress that some of the crew members had not yet completed their Mk5 training). Time is running out if 23rd September really is the introduction date.
     

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