Caledonian Sleeper

[BRX]

I've previously considered using the sleeper for a weekend's scottish skiing from London... in which case, last minute availability is significant, because I'd be eyeing the weather forecast until say Thursday before deciding whether it would be worth it. The seats are very useful in that scenario. If I wanted to go to either Aviemore or Fort William tomorrow night, I could do fort william for £50 although interestingly Inverness seats are sold out (not what I'd have expected in the past). There is a cabin available on the Inverness train though (£210 again).

Flying tomorrow evening - Glasgow actually similar prices. But Inverness would be £145. Add on hotel (£63) and train to airport and it would be about the same. And you'd have to leave work early.

 

[Bald Rick]

That must involve getting up at 5 or 6 am on the Saturday morning though?

0600, lie in compared to normal!

 

[Bald Rick]

None of these options involve finishing work at a conventional time (1730) though...not everyone can sneak off early!

Well that depends where and who you work for. Lots and lots of people have some fleckbitly of finish times, and give how busy central London pubs are on Friday afternoons I would say the average finish time on a Friday is around 1630.

 

[Chrism20]

Does anyone know if there is a seat selector for the seated portion?

There was when I booked a seat back in July.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was curious how things would compare, to travel to Fort William next Friday.

For one person on the sleeper it's £210 for a berth or £50 for a seat.

Easyjet Luton to Glasgow (arrive 2150) is £85. Travelodge in Dumbarton £42. Car hire another £45?

For two people, sleeper berth £255 (£127 each). Hotel would be a bit cheaper per person.

The flying option is way more expensive than seated sleeper, a fair bit cheaper than a solo sleeper cabin, and a little more expensive than a shared cabin (if there's two of you).

Horses for courses... and there are plenty of other variables, naturally.

I would never entertain doing the overnight seats and walking the day after - it wouldn’t be safe (for me). In fact I wouldn’t entertain doing the seats full stop.

Also I’m usually booking these things a couple of months out, rarely paying more than £50 for the flight. I’ve just looked up for a possible weekend next year - £33 for the flight back.

 

[alistairlees]

Does anyone know if there is a seat selector for the seated portion?

Yes there is. Two seat selectors if you are going to Fort William!

 

[Mag_seven]

There was when I booked a seat back in July.

Thanks - another forum member has informed me there is a systems problem at the moment that is preventing the use of this facility.

 

[alistairlees]

Thanks - another forum member has informed me there is a systems problem at the moment that is preventing the use of this facility.

Not that I can see - just tried changing seats for both a London to Glasgow journey and for a London to Fort William journey. Both seemed fine.

There was a massive problem with National Reservations Service earlier on today. I’m surprised people on these forums haven’t been up in arms about it. But that was fixed by 14.00.

Please let me know if you do encounter any problems trying to book a sleeper though.

Thanks

 

[BRX]

I would never entertain doing the overnight seats and walking the day after - it wouldn’t be safe (for me). In fact I wouldn’t entertain doing the seats full stop.

Also I’m usually booking these things a couple of months out, rarely paying more than £50 for the flight. I’ve just looked up for a possible weekend next year - £33 for the flight back.

Sure... I actually wouldn't fancy doing either the seats or a berth before a hard day's walking - I just don't sleep very well on overnight trains much as I enjoy them. Some people seem to be fine though.

Even with flights at £50 - by the same token, a friday night cabin to Fort W a couple of months out costs £165. £50+£45 hotel plus £10 train to the airport plus car hire and fuel... I can see that it's potentially cheaper but there's not loads in it really.

 

[JModulo]

After 4 consecutive journeys, only half of them I made this week were fault free. 6 months on and still the same problems that were experienced at the start.

 

[paul1609]

None of these options involve finishing work at a conventional time (1730) though...not everyone can sneak off early!

I'm retired now but of my friends that commute to London, Id struggle to find one who wasn't working from home on Friday. Even when I worked in the city in the 1990s people were generally in the Lamb in Leadenhall market by 4pm on Fridays if not by lunchtime.

 

[Bald Rick]

I'm retired now but of my friends that commute to London, Id struggle to find one who wasn't working from home on Friday. Even when I worked in the city in the 1990s people were generally in the Lamb in Leadenhall market by 4pm on Fridays if not by lunchtime.

There’s still a good many who do go to their normal placeof work on Fridays though, and o& course not everyone works in an office.

However, many people do. Whilst many may not be able to work at home, I would struggle to find anyone I know (who doesn’t work shifts*) who wouldn’t have the flexibility to knock off half an hour or an hour early if they were going away for the weekend. This includes those who work for very small companies, and of course the self employed can go when they like!

* even some of those who work shifts have some flexibility. It’s quite common for signallers etc to make a local arrangement with their relief to finish early and ‘repay the debt’ on the next shift.

Bringing this all back to the sleeper. If I’m finishing work at 5pm ish, the last thing I want to do is hang around for 4 or 6 hours waiting to board the train. Especially as in that time I can have done most of the journey, and be in a proper bed, getting some proper sleep.

 

[Bald Rick]

Even with flights at £50 - by the same token, a friday night cabin to Fort W a couple of months out costs £165. £50+£45 hotel plus £10 train to the airport plus car hire and fuel... I can see that it's potentially cheaper but there's not loads in it really.

Re the car hire. There’s only so much walking that can be done directly from the sleeper. Most of Scotland’s walking you need a car to get to. That’s certainly the case for me now, I’ve got very little left to see that I can access directly by train, let alone directly off the sleeper.

 

[BRX]

There’s still a good many who do go to their normal placeof work on Fridays though, and o& course not everyone works in an office.

However, many people do. Whilst many may not be able to work at home, I would struggle to find anyone I know (who doesn’t work shifts*) who wouldn’t have the flexibility to knock off half an hour or an hour early if they were going away for the weekend. This includes those who work for very small companies, and of course the self employed can go when they like!

* even some of those who work shifts have some flexibility. It’s quite common for signallers etc to make a local arrangement with their relief to finish early and ‘repay the debt’ on the next shift.

Bringing this all back to the sleeper. If I’m finishing work at 5pm ish, the last thing I want to do is hang around for 4 or 6 hours waiting to board the train. Especially as in that time I can have done most of the journey, and be in a proper bed, getting some proper sleep.

On the other hand... I'm self employed. Usually trying to get things finished off before going away for a few days. It's often quite useful to be able to do that until 5 or 6, then have an hour or two to get packed up, head up to Euston, and have dinner on the train. To me that's more appealing than having to stop work earlier, and be packed the night before, and then having to get to an airport, with a hurried dinner before or after the flight, and not getting to a hotel until late in the evening with an early start the next day. Like I said earlier, horses for courses.

 

[BRX]

Re the car hire. There’s only so much walking that can be done directly from the sleeper. Most of Scotland’s walking you need a car to get to. That’s certainly the case for me now, I’ve got very little left to see that I can access directly by train, let alone directly off the sleeper.

Can't argue with that. But I'd say that limiting locations to those within a 2 hr drive from Glasgow is similarly restrictive.

 

[Fred43123]

Another day, another delay for the sleeper, 1M11 has come to a stand near Queen’s Park, passed it on another train and it’s got its pantograph down. Damage to overheads is being said on National Rail

 

[The Planner]

Sounds a tad scary for the driver if the reports are correct, sounds like something off the OLE came through the second mans side windscreen. Lot of reported OLE damage in the tunnel too. West Coast is one to avoid today again then!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Sounds a tad scary for the driver if the reports are correct, sounds like something off the OLE came through the second mans side windscreen. Lot of reported OLE damage in the tunnel too. West Coast is one to avoid today again then!

Oops, off up North this evening... Not been a good week for the WCML, has it?

Edit: just one pair of lines out it seems, so lop the Chester/North Wales to Crewe, 1tph Manc, 1tph Brum and the Tring stoppers and we'll be go again

 

[cb a1]

On the Highlander down (leaving from home) on Sunday night and Lowlander up (back into work) on Monday night as I'm attending an all-day conference in London (09:30 to probably about 21:00 when we leave the pub).
I do have the options of i) day trains and hotels, ii) using the sleeper, iii) flying.
I find the Sleeper the most convenient of the three as essentially it provides the least travel time of the three as travelling whilst asleep I don't class as travel time but sleep time.
Appreciate that not everyone sleeps well on the sleeper, but I would say it's about 90% of the quality of a normal bed.
I don't know what it is about flying, but I don't sleep well the night before - I think it's the pressure of uncertainty of getting through security and being at the airport on time that I just don't feel when going to catch a train.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Appreciate that not everyone sleeps well on the sleeper, but I would say it's about 90% of the quality of a normal bed.
I don't know what it is about flying, but I don't sleep well the night before - I think it's the pressure of uncertainty of getting through security and being at the airport on time that I just don't feel when going to catch a train.

I rarely sleep well when I know I have to be up at a specific time otherwise things will be very bad. (For work doesn't quite count, as in most jobs a one off lateness with the time made up would not result in much more than needing to profusely apologise).

 

[Brissle Girl]

Reading all the talk about the practicalities of getting from London to Fort William for a day and a half walking before heading back again made me wonder whether, however one travels, it’s a somewhat carbon heavy way of getting a bit of exercise and fresh air on a weekend. I’m not advocating no leisure travel by any means, but a regular 1000 mile round trip for a bit of hill walking might be the type of activity that we should think twice about these days.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Reading all the talk about the practicalities of getting from London to Fort William for a day and a half walking before heading back again made me wonder whether, however one travels, it’s a somewhat carbon heavy way of getting a bit of exercise and fresh air on a weekend. I’m not advocating no leisure travel by any means, but a regular 1000 mile round trip for a bit of hill walking might be the type of activity that we should think twice about these days.

Though if you're going to do it, on a train that'll be running anyway is about as good a way as it gets - your argument only really works if a reduction in it would cause the FW Sleeper to be canned entirely.

 

[BRX]

Though if you're going to do it, on a train that'll be running anyway is about as good a way as it gets - your argument only really works if a reduction in it would cause the FW Sleeper to be canned entirely.

Not entirely as simple as that, as a booked out sleeper may displace people to other modes.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not entirely as simple as that, as a booked out sleeper may displace people to other modes.

True. Though I doubt there is much non-leisure travel to FW anyway...

 

[Beebman]

Sounds a tad scary for the driver if the reports are correct, sounds like something off the OLE came through the second mans side windscreen. Lot of reported OLE damage in the tunnel too. West Coast is one to avoid today again then!

LNR has just tweeted a photo of the damaged windscreen of the 92:
https://twitter.com/LNRailway/status/1190201640311312385

 

[Brissle Girl]

Though if you're going to do it, on a train that'll be running anyway is about as good a way as it gets - your argument only really works if a reduction in it would cause the FW Sleeper to be canned entirely.

You could use that argument about just about any public transport journey.

And I’m not sure a sleeper train with its low density, (particularly if single occupied cabins) is as carbon efficient as one might intuitively think a train service is.

 

[trebor79]

Well let's just stop doing anything for leisure then. I mean it's all contributing to climate change isn't it?
As the traction current is all from nuclear, the WCML bit of a sleeper journey is zero carbon.

 

[BRX]

As the traction current is all from nuclear, the WCML bit of a sleeper journey is zero carbon.

Again... power that could be used elsewhere in place of fossil fuel derived power, if the WCML wasn't using it. No power is really zero carbon until all of our power is zero carbon.

I agree with @Brissle Girl - anyone seriously wanting to reduce their impact should probably think twice about travelling that large distance just for a day or two. Just like those European weekend city breaks by air. It's not saying that no-one should ever do anything - just to be conscious of the impact of what we do do, and not to pretend that using the sleeper in this way has no impact, even if (hopefully) it's better than flying (and it would be great to know what the real numbers are).

 

[paul1609]

I don't know what it is about flying, but I don't sleep well the night before - I think it's the pressure of uncertainty of getting through security and being at the airport on time that I just don't feel when going to catch a train.

Id guess that you don't fly very often. As someone who commuted from Garelochead to kent for 3 years id much rather go through security at Glasgow than have to do a cross London connection with luggage. thats before your train gets later and later coming down the WCMl effectively missing your last connection in London. Trying to get assistance from the various rail companies for the last 65 miles is almost impossible you just get fobbed off although you usually do get you money back eventually.

 

[paul1609]

Reading all the talk about the practicalities of getting from London to Fort William for a day and a half walking before heading back again made me wonder whether, however one travels, it’s a somewhat carbon heavy way of getting a bit of exercise and fresh air on a weekend. I’m not advocating no leisure travel by any means, but a regular 1000 mile round trip for a bit of hill walking might be the type of activity that we should think twice about these days.

Railtours seem to be a 1000 mile round trip without the benefit of the exercise therefore need to be immediately banned.