Caledonian Sleeper

[TimboM]

are they still running withe the unused Lounge and Seat Cars or just removing them and just pulling sleeper cars?

Formations are as normal.
Seats coach is also the brake and guards accommodation so has to be in each unit.

Club/lounge still used to provide necessary staff refreshments.

Also the Mk5s TCMS (computer brain) is designed on the basis of the normal “fixed” set up of each unit (seats / lounge / sleepers) so is liable to get upset if too many bits are missing - indeed if a seats/brake coach isn’t in a unit and at the end it won’t allow the train to run (which makes sense really).

 

[Leisurefirst]

There's revised availability and pricing in place during the current lockdown period - noting only essential travel by keyworkers should be happening. The current altered/reduced service is until 30 May, but could of course be extended.

To summarise some key points shared via CS website and social media in the past few weeks:

- Seats are not being used, just berths to facilitate social distancing
- The lounge/club cars are not in use (ditto)
- As you've noted there's a reduced starting price for Classic Berths of £75 solo and £95 double
- NHS staff travel free

The sleeper is currently running under an Emergency Measures Agreement (EMA) with Transport Scotland (TS). This means TS are fully funding the service currently as part of ensuring transport/rail links remain in place for keyworkers (same with most if not all other TOCs across the UK). With domestic flights all but stopped, the Sleeper provides an alternative for those who need to make essential travel from Scotland to the south and vice versa in a comparatively safe socially distanced manner.

There's been a handful of passengers on each night, who are in the main key workers (incl NHS staff) keeping the UK operating and caring for the sick during these times. As such, the sleeper is serving its current purpose as a public service - and is funded as such. It's not a 'normal' situation where it'd be cancelled based on commercial considerations.

Thank you for that!
I had seen most of the points on CS website etc but the withdrawal of seats was a new one on me as they were still available until pretty recently for late June but now not (for perfectly understandable reasons).
I wonder what would happen if one booked seats for a future date but this was still the case.
Upgrade to berth or refused travel?

 

[popeter45]

Formations are as normal.
Seats coach is also the brake and guards accommodation so has to be in each unit.

Club/lounge still used to provide necessary staff refreshments.

Also the Mk5s TCMS (computer brain) is designed on the basis of the normal “fixed” set up of each unit (seats / lounge / sleepers) so is liable to get upset if too many bits are missing - indeed if a seats/brake coach isn’t in a unit and at the end it won’t allow the train to run (which makes sense really).

thanks for that
wonder if like what airlines are doing if they are using the seats/unused cabins for transporting PPE and other medical supplies?

 

[alistairlees]

The seated car has to be present as it contains the train management system and the handbrake. No seated car, no train.

 

[PG]

The seated car has to be present as it contains the train management system and the handbrake. No seated car, no train.

Pardon my ignorance, does that mean that all the other coaches have no facility to apply the brakes, e.g. when they are uncoupled for maintenance?

I'm just thinking in the context of the recent runaway cement wagon at Clitheroe.

 

[MrEd]

It’ (the Sleeper) is an ‘essential service’ I believe.

Incidentally, my local (Highland) paper reports Serco top man SRS as having used the sleeper to ‘break lockdown’ - a bit dubious.

Rail boss admits travelling to his Highland holiday home

The boss of the Caledonian Sleeper train service had previously denied ignoring lockdown rules when he travelled from London to Inverness

www.strathspey-herald.co.uk

The paper supposedly known as ‘the two minute silence’ because that’s how long it takes you to read it. Never thought that was fair ...

Yes, there are several medical professionals I know of who depend on the sleeper as a link between London and the north of Scotland. Regarding Mr Soames, it’s concerning if that is the case, but of course we do not know the whole story. I have obviously not tried to use (nor been anywhere near) the sleeper since lockdown began, but I would be amazed if he’d been allowed to travel if his journey had not been essential. Maybe he did slip through the mill, in which case he should take one very long hard look at himself in the mirror (and offer contrite and sincere apologies to the staff and members of the public he has needlessly insulted and put at risk in doing so). I’ve heard suggestion that passengers whose journeys are not essential are being turned away at Euston and possibly at the Scottish termini as well (possibly with assistance from BTP), and that passengers are being asked to verify that their journey is essential when booking during the period of restrictions (at least if they book over the phone). Of course, I don’t know if this is true, as I (and probably most folk on here) have not tried to book any journeys during the lockdown. What I do know is that CS have been very efficient in offering refunds to passengers who booked fixed advances for the Inverness service before lockdown began but whose journeys are not essential, and have been doing their utmost to dissuade passengers from travelling unless they have no other option.

It might be an idea for CS, while Scotland remains in lockdown and non-essential travel is prohibited, to take a leaf out of Calmac Ferries’ book and ask to see proof of address/proof that travel is essential (perhaps in the form of a scan of an appointment letter/work schedule sent by email) before issuing any ticket or berth reservation. I don’t know how easy this is for a ToC to do (perhaps CS are doing so already), but it would discourage any discretionary journeys. That said, the staff members I know who are still working the train regularly are suggesting to me that loadings are very light (4 passengers in the six sleeping cars of the Inverness portion most nights) and that no discretionary journeys are being made as far as they can see.

 

[PG]

Regarding Mr Soames, it’s concerning if that is the case, but of course we do not know the whole story. I have obviously not tried to use (nor been anywhere near) the sleeper since lockdown began, but I would be amazed if he’d been allowed to travel if his journey had not been essential. Maybe he did slip through the mill, in which case he should take one very long hard look at himself in the mirror (and offer contrite and sincere apologies to the staff and members of the public he has needlessly insulted and put at risk in doing so). I’ve heard suggestion that passengers whose journeys are not essential are being turned away at Euston and possibly at the Scottish termini as well (possibly with assistance from BTP)

As you say we don't know the full story though I doubt the BTP are in too much of a position to comment given a story emerging of their Scottish chief doing similar.

Police chief criticised over lockdown trips from Glasgow to Yorkshire home

Ch Supt Eddie Wylie made two trips from his rented flat in Glasgow to Holmfirth - 236 miles away - between 21 March and 13 May.

BTP said both trips were work-related and did not breach lockdown guidelines.

Again we don't know the full story so both individuals may well have had legitimate reasons for travel.

 

[theironroad]

The newspaper articles claimed that

1) soames travelled to his second home to conduct an interview for a manager at his second home hich he claimed couldn't be done online and
2) the BTP boss was going to his family home to see his wife who he hadn't seen as he is based in Scotland for work

While I've a wee bit more sympathy for the BTP guy, it's still massive double standards when his officers were questioning people for setting foot on a train or in a station
As for soames, well I'll be banned if I really say what I want to.

 

[RT4038]

The newspaper articles claimed that

1) soames travelled to his second home to conduct an interview for a manager at his second home hich he claimed couldn't be done online and
2) the BTP boss was going to his family home to see his wife who he hadn't seen as he is based in Scotland for work

While I've a wee bit more sympathy for the BTP guy, it's still massive double standards when his officers were questioning people for setting foot on a train or in a station
As for soames, well I'll be banned if I really say what I want to.

I think that 'massive double standards' is going a bit far, for his officers merely questioning people for setting foot on a train or in a station. Yes if they were refusing others travel in a similar situation, but I don't think there is evidence of that? 'Essential' is open to interpretation, and whether that applies to not seeing your wife for two months will depend on the individuals concerned.

 

[MrEd]

The newspaper articles claimed that

1) soames travelled to his second home to conduct an interview for a manager at his second home hich he claimed couldn't be done online and

As for soames, well I'll be banned if I really say what I want to.

As it stands in the article, Soames’ excuse is a load of bull- how on earth can an interview not be done via Zoom, Skype, Google Meet, Microsoft Teams, any other software which you care to name... and what sort of major CEO and businessman are you in the modern world if you can’t use any of those- in some ways you’re like the gas lamplighter competing with Thomas Edison. And in any case, would you really expect an interview candidate (for a position which though important cannot really be classed as a key worker) to be prepared to travel to a remote estate only accessible by boat during lockdown, putting other folk at risk in doing so? Clearly Mr Soames had other reasons which he has withheld for some reason or other, either because they’re personal or because he doesn’t want to admit to violating lockdown without a valid reason. If he has done the latter, then he seriously needs to man up and apologise.

 

[theironroad]

I think that 'massive double standards' is going a bit far, for his officers merely questioning people for setting foot on a train or in a station. Yes if they were refusing others travel in a similar situation, but I don't think there is evidence of that? 'Essential' is open to interpretation, and whether that applies to not seeing your wife for two months will depend on the individuals concerned.

Earlier on in the lockdown I witnessed BTP stopping, questioning and telling someone changing trains that their journey wasn't necessary and telling them to get back on the train they'd just got off and go home. But hey, it's ok for a senior officer in BTP to pop back to his first home from his second.

 

[PG]

Earlier on in the lockdown I witnessed BTP stopping, questioning and telling someone changing trains that their journey wasn't necessary and telling them to get back on the train they'd just got off and go home. But hey, it's ok for a senior officer in BTP to pop back to his first home from his second.

The likelihood of getting back home by re-boarding the train you've just got off is minimal (Merseyrail etc excepted)!

Media especially newspapers are also likely to omit some details if it makes for a juicer story!

 

[theironroad]

The likelihood of getting back home by re-boarding the train you've just got off is minimal (Merseyrail etc excepted)!

Media especially newspapers are also likely to omit some details if it makes for a juicer story!

I'm just making it all up pal, jeez.

 

[PG]

I'm just making it all up pal, jeez.

TBH it seems like Boris Et al. have been making it up on the fly over the past week

 

[Andy Pacer]

A short while ago I saw 73968 passing Syston as 0Z73 (i assume) https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00886/2020-05-18/detailed

Unfortunately it took me by surprise and I didn't manage to fumble around with my phone quick enough to get a photo!

 

[RT4038]

Earlier on in the lockdown I witnessed BTP stopping, questioning and telling someone changing trains that their journey wasn't necessary and telling them to get back on the train they'd just got off and go home. But hey, it's ok for a senior officer in BTP to pop back to his first home from his second.

Was this person you witnessed travelling in the same circumstances, or are you just annoyed that the BTP were enforcing a restriction on liberties not normally seen in this country? If not, I am unsure what the relevance is.
In this particular case, this Officer's 'second home' was more akin to staying in a hotel for work, and I guess that the NHS workers travelling on the Sleeper are effectively doing a similar thing. Presumably the Officer is required to actually attend work, supervising the front-line staff, and could quite legitimately be travelling on the train in the course of his duties. If he chose to commute daily, this would have been ok?
The lockdown has affected everyone, but I would suggest that there are reasonable mitigating circumstances.

 

[DelW]

The likelihood of getting back home by re-boarding the train you've just got off is minimal (Merseyrail etc excepted)!

Not really, many trains terminating at an interchange station go back to where they came from. As an example, almost every SWR or North Downs train arriving at Reading, from which many pax change onto GWR main line services.

 

[PG]

Not really, many trains terminating at an interchange station go back to where they came from. As an example, almost every SWR or North Downs train arriving at Reading, from which many pax change onto GWR main line services.

That is true, though in the example of Reading, if changing from XC onto GWR the XC train won't be a terminator thus not going back from whence it came.

Since we don't know where this occurred we really can't say one way or the other.

 

[TimboM]

15336 reported in the consist of 1M16 (Glasgow portion) this morning. One to go...

All 75 have now made it into service. 15302 in the consist of 1M16 (Glasgow portion) this morning.

All 75 In Service

Mk5 Sleeper 15302 was one of the first batch of five Mk5 Sleepers to arrive via the Channel Tunnel into the UK on 15/01/2018, following testing at the Velim test track in the Czech Republic. Two years and four months later, it eventually made it into a service train as the 75th - and final -...

flic.kr

 

[DelW]

That is true, though in the example of Reading, if changing from XC onto GWR the XC train won't be a terminator thus not going back from whence it came.

Since we don't know where this occurred we really can't say one way or the other.

I didn't mention XC since very few of their services terminate at Reading, unlike SWR and North Downs trains. My point was, it's just one of countless examples around the country where passengers often change from a train that terminates and then goes back over its route, so there's nothing at all improbable about theironroad's example.

But this is getting rather off the subject of the sleeper.

 

[PG]

But this is getting rather off the subject of the sleeper.

True, let's say we draw a line under this and get back on topic

 

[DelW]

True, let's say we draw a line under this and get back on topic

Agreed

 

[Jamesrob637]

I can't find the thread for it so please feel free to move this, but has the Night Riviera resumed service this week with the "timetable change" and the gradual ramping up of services?

 

[Steve Harris]

I can't find the thread for it so please feel free to move this, but has the Night Riviera resumed service this week with the "timetable change" and the gradual ramping up of services?

I think most Night Riviera stuff is discussed in this thread : https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lass-57-updates-from-long-rock.127881/page-53

Hope this helps.

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think most Night Riviera stuff is discussed in this thread : https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...lass-57-updates-from-long-rock.127881/page-53

Hope this helps.

Sorry I couldn't make it a link. Tried 3 times, but to no avail. This new layout doesn't seem to like being used on my mobile device.

Thanks! Turns out that its thread is under "Traction and Rolling Stock!"

 

[ainsworth74]

Sorry I couldn't make it a link. Tried 3 times, but to no avail. This new layout doesn't seem to like being used on my mobile device.

If you just paste a link the Forum will usually pick it up and turn it into a clickable hyperlink as it appears to have done here

 

[Steve Harris]

If you just paste a link the Forum will usually pick it up and turn it into a clickable hyperlink as it appears to have done here

Yep, I noticed it had as soon as I posted (although doesn't show you it before you hit post)!

I did try to edit my post to take the last paragraph out..... I can hit "edit", delete the text but If I hit "save" it doesn't do anything.
So yeah, a few bugs if you use a phone... arh well.

Edit : managed to edit it now... You have to carry out a refresh to check... as there seems to be a time lagg from doing something and being able to see it !

Sorry for the waffle Ainsworth74

 

[Peter Sarf]

All 75 have now made it into service. 15302 in the consist of 1M16 (Glasgow portion) this morning.

All 75 In Service

Mk5 Sleeper 15302 was one of the first batch of five Mk5 Sleepers to arrive via the Channel Tunnel into the UK on 15/01/2018, following testing at the Velim test track in the Czech Republic. Two years and four months later, it eventually made it into a service train as the 75th - and final -...

flic.kr

Now what seems to have happened is that this was sent out from Polmadie. It replaced some/all of the rake Wembley sent out on Sunday night. This in turn replaced the 16 coaches that arrived from Scotland on Saturday morning which had been in service most/all of last week..

Reports I have seen must have an error as on Thu & Fri last week 15001 was in consecutive southbound services !.

As far as I can tell this means, of the most wanted ones :-
Thursday night at Euston 15302.
Friday night at Euston 15301 (& 15001 ?).
Wembley looks after 15336 (& 15001 ?).
Polmadie probably has 15340.

So what is 15001 really on ?.
Where is 15340 ?.

 

[DBS92042]

Now what seems to have happened is that this was sent out from Polmadie. It replaced some/all of the rake Wembley sent out on Sunday night. This in turn replaced the 16 coaches that arrived from Scotland on Saturday morning which had been in service most/all of last week..

Reports I have seen must have an error as on Thu & Fri last week 15001 was in consecutive southbound services !.

As far as I can tell this means, of the most wanted ones :-
Thursday night at Euston 15302.
Friday night at Euston 15301 (& 15001 ?).
Wembley looks after 15336 (& 15001 ?).
Polmadie probably has 15340.

So what is 15001 really on ?.
Where is 15340 ?.

If I'm not mistaken 15001 was on today's 1M16 behind 92014. Full stock (if anyone could confirm this it'd be much appreciated): 15001, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15337, 15338, 15301, 15204, 15004, 15101, 15202, 15311, 15303, 15313, 15306, 15330.

EDIT: I think I may be mistaken as looking at some photos I got, the first coach (which would've been 15001 last week) is rather dirty and the stag on the window appears to be peeling off. I'm guessing that 15001 has since been swapped with another coach

 

[TimboM]

If I'm not mistaken 15001 was on today's 1M16 behind 92014. Full stock (if anyone could confirm this it'd be much appreciated): 15001, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15337, 15338, 15301, 15204, 15004, 15101, 15202, 15311, 15303, 15313, 15306, 15330.

EDIT: I think I may be mistaken as looking at some photos I got, the first coach (which would've been 15001 last week) is rather dirty and the stag on the window appears to be peeling off. I'm guessing that 15001 has since been swapped with another coach

Info I've seen this morning indicates:
15007 subbed in for 15001 at Polmadie yesterday and also 15301 was taken out of the Glasgow portion
15214 in place of 15202 in the Inverness portion

So consist (Load 15) should've been:

15007, 15110, 15212, 15339, 15337, 15338, (15301), 15204 + 15004, 15101, 15214, 15311, 15303, 15313, 15306, 15330

Also whilst on the topic, 15302 (final debutante on Mon night) was missing from the northbound 1S25 last night (ran as a Load 14). This means of the final three to come into service none are currently out and about in trains.

15301 - at Polmadie as above
15302 - at Wembley as above
15336 - at Wembley as part of the 'spare' set that was rotated out at the weekend, so in theory should reappear on the northbound service on Sun night.