Caledonian Sleeper

[Bald Rick]

Things must be starting to get back to normal if The Scotsman is printing stories about poor customer service on the sleeper.

Joking apart, it's interesting that I've never heard of a regular being hassled off the train early. I think that there may be a certain type of host who thinks that they might get away with it with less experienced travellers. Woe betide one that made the attempt on a Highlander regular.

Surely it’s not a ‘thing’ on the highlander, given the arrival times at destination.

 

[xotGD]

Perhaps "Unexpected awakening locations" deserves its own thread.
I offer:
Woking Carriage Sidings (off the 03:45 Waterloo - Petersfield papers)
Alderley Edge Carriage Sidings (on an EMU from Crewe early one Sunday morning)
Ferme Park Carriage Sidings (off an overnight into Kings Cross)
Red Bank Carriage Sidings (on a daytime train into Manchester - I was just utterly knackered!)
Kings Lynn (when I wanted to get off at Ely, but overdossed)

Some impressive yellow-penning there! Definitely a topic that deserves its own thread.

 

[BRX]

Surely it’s not a ‘thing’ on the highlander, given the arrival times at destination.

Believe it or not, us Highland folk are capable of travelling in both directions.

 

[Bald Rick]

Believe it or not, us Highland folk are capable of travelling in both directions.

Not at the same time I hope! But the Highlander arrives Euston at 0749?

 

[BRX]

Not at the same time I hope! But the Highlander arrives Euston at 0749?

Advertised as vacate rooms by 0800 (or 0815) though. So, if it arrives a bit early, say at 0730, they might be trying to shoo you off half an hour before you were expecting. It's happened to me once or twice.

 

[MrEd]

Advertised as vacate rooms by 0800 (or 0815) though. So, if it arrives a bit early, say at 0730, they might be trying to shoo you off half an hour before you were expecting. It's happened to me once or twice.

At present, an early arrival on the Highlander into Euston is very possible, but under normal circumstances (when a full weekday service is operating) it is very rare for the up Highlander to arrive into Euston before 07:45. Generally the staff give you a few minutes to pack up and leave, but it’s ‘vacate on arrival’ in practice.

 

[BRX]

I'll probably get in trouble for going off topic, but this is interesting for anyone following the fate of night trains in general - a sleeper service from Prague to Croatia has proven very popular, to the extent that they are increasing services. And it appears that this is a non subsidised operation.

Due to high demand, overnight train from Prague to Croatia will run daily starting in mid-July

After launching in June, the train service was so popular it sold more than 30,000 tickets in the first few weeks

news.expats.cz

 

[cakefiend]

I've been rather passive-aggressively told to get off at Euston way before time on a couple of occasions. However, having heard stories from colleagues who work for the sleeper, I'm more than inclined to cut them a little slack.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I've been rather passive-aggressively told to get off at Euston way before time on a couple of occasions. However, having heard stories from colleagues who work for the sleeper, I'm more than inclined to cut them a little slack.

I won't personally cut any slack to any member of staff who is rude to passengers under any circumstances, in particular not where the member of staff is trying to get the passenger to do something which is contrary to the contract which was formed when they booked, as the "kicking out time" is clearly stated. Under no circumstances is passive-aggression acceptable in a customer services situation, even where the passenger is in the wrong.

There might be internal industrial strife but that is not the passenger's problem and under no circumstances whatsoever is it acceptable for that to be taken out on the passenger, particularly when they are travelling on what is a premium service.

The absolute most they should be doing is a polite request, with refusal accepted gracefully.

 

[route101]

On the lowlander into Euston i just get off when it arrives. Seems most get off at that time.

 

[Butts]

I won't personally cut any slack to any member of staff who is rude to passengers under any circumstances, in particular not where the member of staff is trying to get the passenger to do something which is contrary to the contract which was formed when they booked, as the "kicking out time" is clearly stated. Under no circumstances is passive-aggression acceptable in a customer services situation, even where the passenger is in the wrong.

There might be internal industrial strife but that is not the passenger's problem and under no circumstances whatsoever is it acceptable for that to be taken out on the passenger, particularly when they are travelling on what is a premium service.

The absolute most they should be doing is a polite request, with refusal accepted gracefully.

Perhaps they should slip you a free breakfast or couple of miniatures to ease your inconvenience ?

 

[Horizon22]

Not to mention this is a bit of a staff failing as they should be checking the set as part of any regular ECS lock up before it goes to the depot. Dangerous things can happen when people wake up at depots dazed. Certainly true elsewhere and assume it is on the Sleeper. If you get a refusal you seek colleague assistance and, at last resort, the BTP

 

[Bletchleyite]

Not to mention this is a bit of a staff failing as they should be checking the set as part of any regular ECS lock up before it goes to the depot. Dangerous things can happen when people wake up at depots dazed. Certainly true elsewhere and assume it is on the Sleeper. If you get a refusal you seek colleague assistance and, at last resort, the BTP

The BTP should be brought in to kick off people who are on the train at a time when the timetable states they are allowed to be on it? I can't believe I am reading that.

The culture of the operation is utterly, utterly broken if that's how it works, rather than an apology and acknowledgement that the customer is in the right to remain on board until that precise time if they wish.

I've had hotels get that wrong when I've paid for late checkout, but when I point it out I've never had anything other than a profuse apology.

 

[Horizon22]

The BTP should be brought in to kick off people who are on the train at a time when the timetable states they are allowed to be on it? I can't believe I am reading that.

The culture of the operation is utterly, utterly broken if that's how it works, rather than an apology and acknowledgement that the customer is in the right to remain on board until that precise time if they wish.

I've had hotels get that wrong when I've paid for late checkout, but when I point it out I've never had anything other than a profuse apology.

Not at all. I didn't get from the article whether they were dispatching early from the station or not, or perhaps I misread.

Either way leaving RT or 120 minutes early, staff should be thoroughly checking to ensure there are no passengers on the train. For the sleeper, then of course they can stay on-board as the timetable states. Never been too sure whether that was guidance on kick-off time, or is it set in the timetable? ECS moves often run early, but the Sleeper should be an exception if its widely publicised. I was more commenting on the operations of leaving someone on-board to a depot. Either way, think we both agree the operation is broken.

 

[Ianno87]

The BTP should be brought in to kick off people who are on the train at a time when the timetable states they are allowed to be on it? I can't believe I am reading that.

Playing devils advocate, is there anything that gives the customers absolute right to remain on the train to the "must vacate berths by" time? Do CS, in effect, "reserve the right" to kick off earlier where it is operationally necessary? Remember, it is specifically phrased as "must vacate berths by", not "you may remain in your berths until".

No different to any other service that commonly arrives early; e.g. a late night Pendo arrival at Piccadilly before it goes to Longsight (although *why* you would want to sit on it until its booked time is another matter)

I do, agree, it is of course good customer service not to chuck people off early into a cold, dark, empty station.

 

[Horizon22]

Playing devils advocate, is there anything that gives the customers absolute right to remain on the train to the "must vacate berths by" time? Do CS, in effect, "reserve the right" to kick off earlier where it is operationally necessary? Remember, it is specifically phrased as "must vacate berths by", not "you may remain in your berths until".

No different to any other service that commonly arrives early; e.g. a late night Pendo arrival at Piccadilly before it goes to Longsight (although *why* you would want to sit on it until its booked time is another matter)

I do, agree, it is of course good customer service not to chuck people off early into a cold, dark, empty station.

I imagine operationally "necessary" is often used when operationally "easier" really applies, to be cycnical.

 

[Siemens Trains]

I won't personally cut any slack to any member of staff who is rude to passengers under any circumstances, in particular not where the member of staff is trying to get the passenger to do something which is contrary to the contract which was formed when they booked, as the "kicking out time" is clearly stated. Under no circumstances is passive-aggression acceptable in a customer services situation, even where the passenger is in the wrong.

There might be internal industrial strife but that is not the passenger's problem and under no circumstances whatsoever is it acceptable for that to be taken out on the passenger, particularly when they are travelling on what is a premium service.

The absolute most they should be doing is a polite request, with refusal accepted gracefully.

Rather than the hotel analogy, what about overnight flights that benefit from a tailwind, landing early at their destination airport?
Should passengers demand their entitlement to on board breakfast and bucks fizz is honoured right up to the scheduled arrival time printed on their ticket?

 

[47271]

Regardless of all of the above, isn't it funny that some passengers known to crew are never hassled in this way? Up here we're all clear that if it happened then we'd state the known 'vacate by' time to the host and invite them to take it further if they wish. What are the chances?

Anyway, on a lighter note, the last few posts have reminded us to compile a selection of a more regular host issue on the Inverness section of the Highlander, and that's the comedy created by genuine human error when attendants have forgotten to wake passengers due to alight at intermediate stations north of Perth. To be fair to Serco, most of these happened either in their very early days or under Scotrail.

- a Dunkeld passenger who was remembered just as the northbound train pulled out of the station. They managed to get him off at Pitlochry, but of course his car was at Dunkeld. They tried to get him a taxi, but these aren't really available on demand in Pitlochry at 615am. There was nothing to do but to phone and wake up his wife at home. She then had to spend the best part of the next hour driving all over sorting out the problem.

- a Blair Atholl passenger remembered just before Dalwhinnie. There was a mad dash by the host to the cabin to discover that they'd managed to get themselves off without breakfast. They were never heard of again.

- another Dunkeld passenger who was woken by furious banging on the door five minutes before arrival, and then a mortified request to vacate immediately. Being wise to the ways of the sleeper, he said he'd do his best but they'd need to wait. When he got off ten minutes later he was greeted by four crew, two either side of one of those wooden boxes they have on the Dunkeld platform, and offering scraping apologies. He said that the Queen getting off the Royal Train must have a similar reception. But no breakfast for him either....

Never a dull moment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Rather than the hotel analogy, what about overnight flights that benefit from a tailwind, landing early at their destination airport?
Should passengers demand their entitlement to on board breakfast and bucks fizz is honoured right up to the scheduled arrival time printed on their ticket?

When you book a flight, it doesn't specifically and clearly state that seats may be occupied from/up to a specific time. For cabins, the CS does state that, therefore stating it and not providing it as stated is bait and switch.

All they need to do if they aren't going to stick to this is to remove that line of text from the timetable, either replacing it with nothing or "It may be possible to remain in your berth for a short period of time after arrival, particularly if the train arrives ahead of schedule. Please follow staff directions on this matter. Unfortunately for operational reasons this facility cannot always be provided."

I'm not asking them to change their policies - I'm just asking them to be honest!

 

[SteveM70]

Rather than the hotel analogy, what about overnight flights that benefit from a tailwind, landing early at their destination airport?
Should passengers demand their entitlement to on board breakfast and bucks fizz is honoured right up to the scheduled arrival time printed on their ticket?

But it's described - sometimes by CS - as being “a hotel on wheels” not “an aeroplane on wheels”. I’m not aware of any hotels asking guests to leave before the latest checkout time because the cleaner wants to get off a bit early

 

[Bletchleyite]

But it's described - sometimes by CS - as being “a hotel on wheels” not “an aeroplane on wheels”. I’m not aware of any hotels asking guests to leave before the latest checkout time because the cleaner wants to get off a bit early

I've sort of had that, but it's always been accompanied by a sheepish apology when I've pointed out I've paid for late checkout. (Sometimes this doesn't get communicated to the staff as most people don't do it, but it's quite useful if you are working and want to go away midweek).

Of course, if a hotel has checkout at say 1200 but wants people out by 1000, it doesn't hassle them or be "passive aggressive", it just changes it to 1000 and you book or don't book based on an honest explanation of the service on offer.

It is literally only that dishonesty/"bait and switch" that I have a problem with. If you want to kick off when the train arrives (as most non-UK night trains do), just say that!

 

[PG]

I've sort of had that, but it's always been accompanied by a sheepish apology when I've pointed out I've paid for late checkout.

I wonder if, given the hotel on rails analogy CS portray in their marketing, anyone has ever requested/offered to pay for a late checkout?... and what response they got?

 

[paul1609]

On the lowlander into Euston i just get off when it arrives. Seems most get off at that time.

When the Night Riviera detached a coach at Plymouth most people used to get off when the down train arrived at silly o clock in the morning. It was only the odd family and enthusiasts who wanted the class 08 haulage that used to stay on to be shunted over to Platform 8. At the end the staff were trying to justify the retention of the Plymouth Coach (and the jobs I imagine) and used to give you the heavy sell on staying on till later.

 

[xotGD]

Y

I wonder if, given the hotel on rails analogy CS portray in their marketing, anyone has ever requested/offered to pay for a late checkout?... and what response they got?

You can have late check out as long as you don't mind a trip to the carriage sidings!

 

[DEAN MURPHY]

For the money CS charges for a club or double room you should get a bloody limousine to your destination included. Outrageous prices

 

[alistairlees]

For the money CS charges for a club or double room you should get a bloody limousine to your destination included. Outrageous prices

It's subsidised. If there was no subsidy the fares would be higher. It's simply not cheap to run.

 

[DEAN MURPHY]

I understand that BUT those prices are extortionate conspired to the night riviera for instance

 

[CW2]

I understand that BUT those prices are extortionate conspired to the night riviera for instance

You aren't really comparing like with like though.
The Cally sleepers run 2 trunk trains per direction per night over the length of the country, requiring 4 class 73s 4 class 92, plus ECS / portion locos, and have recently invested in brand new rolling stock. (Their prices were notably cheaper before this investment took place).
The Night Riviera offers a minimalist sleeper service on a single line of route using Mk2 and Mk3 coaches, with no portion working.
Watch what happens to prices when GWR are eventually required to invest in new coaching stock and locos.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Cally is also roughly twice as far, certainly the Highlander. The Riviera is a relatively short journey - it sits around at several points en-route to waste time.

Edit: the Inverness is actually slightly more than twice as far, the Lowlander more like about 1 1/3 times. Still further though.

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Cally is also roughly twice as far, certainly the Highlander. The Riviera is a relatively short journey - it sits around at several points en-route to waste time.

Edit: the Inverness is actually slightly more than twice as far, the Lowlander more like about 1 1/3 times. Still further though.

Plus the Cally is operating daily now so they need to make some sort of revenue. And you save on hotel costs etc.