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Caledonian Sleeper

cyclebike

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Hants
I thought I'd report on my recent trip with Caledonian Sleeper. I had booked to travel in the seats, with a bicycle, from Euston to Fort William - with the inevitable change of coach in Edinburgh for both myself and the bike. I wasn't expecting a restful night's sleep, but the ticket was £73, which was fully refundable until a couple of days prior to travel, so I was expecting a straightforward, cost- and time-efficient way to travel to the Highlands. I was continuing by train to Mallaig, and then on to Lochboisdale in the Hebrides by ferry (and to finally start actually cycling).

Boarding time at Euston came and went, with no sign of the train or any information. An announcement then did occur, advising that the stock would arrive late into Euston and to remain on the concourse. When boarding did begin, no further information was provided. I was referred from host to host on the platform, eventually being advised (to my considerable surprise) that I would be travelling in a classic room rather than the seats. What's more, a whole other (accessible) classic room had been set aside for my bike. So, I was extremely chuffed at the bargain journey I had suddenly bagged. The reason offered for the change was "it's silly for people to have to move around at Edinburgh when there are spare berths." Very noble, although I was rather bemused as a check online before leaving had indicated that the train was fully booked!

The journey itself was smooth, although I don't feel it's worth the usual price requested for a berth. I would suggest that the design of the Night Riviera cabins is superior, and certainly more cosy. No announcements or information at all on-board (especially surprising considering the late departure), and no mention of any refreshments or breakfast being available (perhaps this is offered to those who have actually paid for their room), although I would have happily paid for a cup of coffee in the morning!

Arriving in Fort William on-time alongside the Jacobite, I managed to find the host to unlock the cabin in which my bike had restfully slumbered during the journey, and continued on my way.
 
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STINT47

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In the summer it would make more sense to carry bikes through to Fort William and have Aberdeen passengers move their bikes at Edingburgh.

I would imagine there are far more people taking bikes for holidays on the Fort William portion at least during the summer.
 

Bletchleyite

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In the summer it would make more sense to carry bikes through to Fort William and have Aberdeen passengers move their bikes at Edingburgh.

I would imagine there are far more people taking bikes for holidays on the Fort William portion at least during the summer.

The FW portion seems to be becoming more popular and the Aberdeen one less so, so I could certainly see the sense in swapping which gets the through lounge and seating coach if not ditching the Aberdeen completely.
 

6Z09

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19 Nov 2009
Messages
499
The FW portion seems to be becoming more popular and the Aberdeen one less so, so I could certainly see the sense in swapping which gets the through lounge and seating coach if not ditching the Aberdeen completely.
The Aberdeen portion seems to be the sacrificial lamb during this week's staffing difficulties!
 

najaB

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The Aberdeen portion seems to be the sacrificial lamb during this week's staffing difficulties!
Probably because it's easier to get from Edinburgh to Aberdeen by day train than it is to Fort William. The first Scotrail service is only 35 minutes or so behind the sleeper.
 

Meerkat

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14 Jul 2018
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7,521
Probably because it's easier to get from Edinburgh to Aberdeen by day train than it is to Fort William. The first Scotrail service is only 35 minutes or so behind the sleeper.
Sounds like a good reason to permanently can it!
 

paul1609

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Probably because it's easier to get from Edinburgh to Aberdeen by day train than it is to Fort William. The first Scotrail service is only 35 minutes or so behind the sleeper.
More likely because Aberdeen is not a tourist market from London and the south east and the business market has long been lost to air. Ive been travelling regularly on the West Highland sleeper for30 years and I honestly cant recall meeting anybody travelling to the Aberdeen stations in the Aberdeen Lounge car. I did once travel to Inverkeithing on the Aberdeen section when I had an early start for trials at Rosyth. Basically it was so early the station was shut and I ended up walking to the dockyard because none of the taxi firms were open.
 

Davester50

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UK
Sounds like a good reason to permanently can it!
The problem on the northbound is the arrival times are far too early to be of much use to tourists at St Andrews.
I'd have liked an East/West split than a Highlander/Lowlander operation.
 

najaB

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Sounds like a good reason to permanently can it!
Though that would mean that passengers to Aberdeen would have to be woken up around 4:45am to be sure of being dressed and out of their berths and on the other train by its 5:30 departure time. Which is a bit on the early side for a lot of people.
 

JonathanH

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Though that would mean that passengers to Aberdeen would have to be woken up around 4:45am to be sure of being dressed and out of their berths and on the other train by its 5:30 departure time. Which is a bit on the early side for a lot of people.
0445? More likely 0400 so that passengers can be off by around 0430 before departure of the stock to Fort William at 0450. I'm not sure there would be many takers even if the Scotrail 0530 departure was available for boarding immediately.

Southbound is a bit easier - 2135 Cross Country departure from Aberdeen runs right in front of the sleeper - there would still be a wait for the Fort William portion to arrive.

Arguably, it would be more straightforward to reform the sleeper sets so 10 cars run on the Inverness and Edinburgh portions and 6 cars on the Fort William and Glasgow portions, then offer Aberdeen passengers a choice of railway connections from Edinburgh or Perth depending on their preference.

In operational news, the Aberdeen portion ran empty this morning from Edinburgh so I guess that passengers were woken on arrival in Edinburgh at 0400. Two 73s ran took the coaches onwards. 66+73 on the other two portions.
 

najaB

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0445? More likely 0400 so that passengers can be off by around 0430 before departure of the stock to Fort William at 0450. I'm not sure there would be many takers even if the Scotrail 0530 departure was available for boarding immediately.
I had originally written 4:00 and thought "Nah, that's too generous".
 

norbitonflyer

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Though that would mean that passengers to Aberdeen would have to be woken up around 4:45am to be sure of being dressed and out of their berths and on the other train by its 5:30 departure time. Which is a bit on the early side for a lot of people.
They could use the Lowland sleeper instead, connecting at Edinburgh for Aberdeen.
 

alangla

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11 Apr 2018
Messages
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Glasgow
Looks like the Fort William train has been cancelled, RTT saying from Queen Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C83871/2021-07-22/detailed
Oddly, ScotRail reported on Twitter that there was a disturbance on a train at Dalmuir being dealt with by the BTP meaning the Singer line trains were diverted westbound, but RTT doesn’t show anything obviously overtime at Dalmuir. 5Y11 however is only just around Cardross, which is later than expected (should be at Crianlarich) - was the barney on the sleeper at Dalmuir?
 

John Bishop

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Looks like the Fort William train has been cancelled, RTT saying from Queen Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C83871/2021-07-22/detailed
Oddly, ScotRail reported on Twitter that there was a disturbance on a train at Dalmuir being dealt with by the BTP meaning the Singer line trains were diverted westbound, but RTT doesn’t show anything obviously overtime at Dalmuir. 5Y11 however is only just around Cardross, which is later than expected (should be at Crianlarich) - was the barney on the sleeper at Dalmuir?
Some long suffering sleeper passenger discovered they had no running water again and lost the plot?
 

JonathanH

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Aberdeen portion appears to have run empty from Edinburgh this morning too.

It seems that five 73s are working this morning - 73966+73970 to Inverness, 73968+73969 to Aberdeen, 66738+73967 to Fort William.
 

alangla

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Some long suffering sleeper passenger discovered they had no running water again and lost the plot?
Or got a rude awakening & told that breakfast & a long wait was to be in a delightful western suburb of Clydebank? To be fair, if you were told you were getting offloaded there you’d probably kick off as well.

On a more serious note, nothing seems to have gone through P1 at Dalmuir between the early Oban train at 0537 and the 0753 arrival from Cumbernauld. 1Y11’s schedule shows that it should have gone that way and the times all fit. Can anyone confirm if that’s what actually happened?
 

6Z09

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19 Nov 2009
Messages
499
Caledonian Sleeper are blaming "Covid related absences " for all these ECS .
Much more likely to be " industrial action " related that sickness can't be covered without staff working on their rest days!

Some long suffering sleeper passenger discovered they had no running water again and lost the plot?
Any regular passengers should be well used to water issues by now!
Wether it be none, too cold or too hot.
 

AberdeenBill

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21 Feb 2021
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Poole
More likely because Aberdeen is not a tourist market from London and the south east and the business market has long been lost to air. Ive been travelling regularly on the West Highland sleeper for30 years and I honestly cant recall meeting anybody travelling to the Aberdeen stations in the Aberdeen Lounge car.
I use it quite regularly, but i would agree that the people disembarking at Aberdeen appear to be families or individuals returning home (judging by the local accents) for a visit or back from a trip to London. Certainly doesn't seem to be many SE tourists. I would imagine the service was busy back in the late 80's / 90's when oil was in full flow, although i used to fly up in those days.
 

JonathanH

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On a more serious note, nothing seems to have gone through P1 at Dalmuir between the early Oban train at 0537 and the 0753 arrival from Cumbernauld. 1Y11’s schedule shows that it should have gone that way and the times all fit. Can anyone confirm if that’s what actually happened?
5Y11 arrived in platform 1 at 0617 and left at 0726
See below
1626938781973.png
1626938816050.png
[Screenshots show arrival and departure times of '5Y11' at Dalmuir described in the text]
 
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6Z09

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19 Nov 2009
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499
Looks like the Fort William train has been cancelled, RTT saying from Queen Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C83871/2021-07-22/detailed
Oddly, ScotRail reported on Twitter that there was a disturbance on a train at Dalmuir being dealt with by the BTP meaning the Singer line trains were diverted westbound, but RTT doesn’t show anything obviously overtime at Dalmuir. 5Y11 however is only just around Cardross, which is later than expected (should be at Crianlarich) - was the barney on the sleeper at Dalmuir?
Presumably the disturbance was not on the sleeper, looks like all their "Guests " were turfed out at Queen Street. (And had been notified of that treat last night.)
 
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paul1609

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I use it quite regularly, but i would agree that the people disembarking at Aberdeen appear to be families or individuals returning home (judging by the local accents) for a visit or back from a trip to London. Certainly doesn't seem to be many SE tourists. I would imagine the service was busy back in the late 80's / 90's when oil was in full flow, although i used to fly up in those days.
My first draft to Rosyth was in 1989 and by then I was already flying standby ba up and down to London. My experience of oil industry workers on the trains was that they mostly came from north of Doncaster. Getting on at Inverkeithing you had a choice of selling your duty free beers at a huge profit or just letting them drink all your beers for free knowing that they would feel obliged to keep you well supplied from the buffet car once it opened after Edinburgh. I doubt there would have been much business for the sleeper though.
 

najaB

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I would imagine the service was busy back in the late 80's / 90's when oil was in full flow, although i used to fly up in those days.
It would have been busier through oil business, though it wouldn't be your run-of-the-mill rig workers as their shift change tends to be in the afternoon. It would have been contractor employees, people who needed to get a full day's work done so the early arrival/late departure was a blessing. Not millions of them, but enough to keep things ticking over. They will mainly fly these days, or be able do a lot of stuff remotely.
 

Highlandspring

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14 Oct 2017
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Looks like the Fort William train has been cancelled, RTT saying from Queen Street https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C83871/2021-07-22/detailed
Oddly, ScotRail reported on Twitter that there was a disturbance on a train at Dalmuir being dealt with by the BTP meaning the Singer line trains were diverted westbound, but RTT doesn’t show anything obviously overtime at Dalmuir. 5Y11 however is only just around Cardross, which is later than expected (should be at Crianlarich) - was the barney on the sleeper at Dalmuir?

Presumably the disturbance was not on the sleeper, looks like all their "Guests " were turfed out at Queen Street. (And had been notified of that treat last night.)

The disturbance was indeed on the sleeper. A passenger stayed on to Dalmuir after the train was terminated at Queen Street, refused to get off the stock and had to be physically removed (as in picked up and carried off the train) by the police.
 

AberdeenBill

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My experience of oil industry workers on the trains was that they mostly came from north of Doncaster. Getting on at Inverkeithing you had a choice of selling your duty free beers at a huge profit or just letting them drink all your beers for free knowing that they would feel obliged to keep you well supplied from the buffet car once it opened after Edinburgh. I doubt there would have been much business for the sleeper though.
I am drifting a bit off topic for a railway forum, but that is a valid point. I am not involved in oil but have met a number of guys over the years who on hearing i come from Aberdeen recount their experiences when working on the rigs. A high proportion are from the north of England, particularly NE or Teeside, presumably because of the traditional engineering skills. They definitely enjoy a drink when they return onshore. The pubs in Aberdeen used to be packed with tables of guys with kit bags stacked at the side. I'm sure some of the local workers used to spend the 'off' bit of 2 weeks on / 2 weeks off just camped in the pub every day.
 

6Z09

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19 Nov 2009
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The disturbance was indeed on the sleeper. A passenger stayed on to Dalmuir after the train was terminated at Queen Street, refused to get off the stock and had to be physically removed (as in picked up and carried off the train) by the police.
Well that is indeed an interesting development!
Can we expect more of these protests as the " Running ECS" debacle continues over coming weeks?
 

JonathanH

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The disturbance was indeed on the sleeper. A passenger stayed on to Dalmuir after the train was terminated at Queen Street, refused to get off the stock and had to be physically removed (as in picked up and carried off the train) by the police.
I can imagine it is a bit galling to be woken up around 05:00 when you are expecting to sleep for longer and then know your train is running empty to the original destination while you have to use alternative transport.

Clearly I appreciate the reasons why this has happened but I can understand how someone might be a bit upset.

It would be interesting to know what criminal offence the person will be charged with. Presumably a fine for disturbance.
 

6Z09

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19 Nov 2009
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499
I can imagine it is a bit galling to be woken up around 05:00 when you are expecting to sleep for longer and then know your train is running empty to the original destination while you have to use alternative transport.

Clearly I appreciate the reasons why this has happened but I can understand how someone might be a bit upset.

It would be interesting to know what criminal offence the person will be charged with. Presumably a fine for disturbance.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if this "Guest " was to treat us all to a trip report!
As word spreads of this incident it may well become a bit of a craze! Dozens of frustrated sleeper " Guests " trying to out do each other in seeing how far they can stowaway on the ECS!
 

STINT47

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16 Aug 2020
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The person who caused the disturbance was probably expecting a magical journey of the night but didn't realise that the journey in the night would involve getting up in the small hours in Glasgow.

On a more serious note reading how the experience is described on the website and then oc the reality through this forum and trip advisor it's no wonder people get annoyed. This doesn't in anyway justify creating a disturbance but the way Caledonian Sleeper sell it and then the way it's delivered is a recipe for conflict.

The high.prices will not help either.
 
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