Caledonian Sleeper

[D6130]

Bit of a random post, but i first used the sleeper in 1983. I have read that at one time there was a 'chamber pot' under the sink in the berths. Does anyone know when that stopped? I cant recall it being on that 1983 train.

I think that may have been back in the Mark 1 days....pre-1983.

 

[AberdeenBill]

Can someone please advise what the lounge car arrangements are on the Northbound Highlander. From walking down the platform i seem to recall that there are two lounges in the set. Therefore what is the sharing arrangement? Is it Aberdeen and Fort William share a lounge and Inverness has its own one?

 

[Essexman]

Can someone please advise what the lounge car arrangements are on the Northbound Highlander. From walking down the platform i seem to recall that there are two lounges in the set. Therefore what is the sharing arrangement? Is it Aberdeen and Fort William share a lounge and Inverness has its own one?

Yes, that's correct.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Bit of a random post, but i first used the sleeper in 1983. I have read that at one time there was a 'chamber pot' under the sink in the berths. Does anyone know when that stopped? I cant recall it being on that 1983 train.

I think that may have been back in the Mark 1 days....pre-1983.

My recollection is they remained in situ right up to the end of Mk1 sleepers.

Checking the full year May 1982/83 and summer 1983 ScR Marshalling books (which are the most recent I have access to) shows by 82/83 all Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Kings Cross sleepers had gone over to Mk3 but even in summer '83 WCML services were a mix of Mk3 on some trains and Mk1 on others whilst both the Glasgow / Edinburgh Bristol and Glasgow / Edinburgh Inverness were still Mk1, the latter being the last survivor until ?1984 and on a northbound trip on that train, knowing it would almost certainly be my last trip on a Mk1 sleeper I travelled armed with small screwdriver and still have the small notice describing it was 'not designed for solid matter' which I removed from the cabinet under the sink. I had no ambition to own one of the pots!

Turning to the LMR 1984 (May) marshalling book, by then the Bristol and remaining services out of Euston (to Scotland and Liv/Man) had gone over to Mk3

 

[AberdeenBill]

My recollection is they remained in situ right up to the end of Mk1 sleepers.

Checking the full year May 1982/83 and summer 1983 ScR Marshalling books (which are the most recent I have access to) shows by 82/83 all Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Kings Cross sleepers had gone over to Mk3 but even in summer '83 WCML services were a mix of Mk3 on some trains and Mk1 on others whilst both the Glasgow / Edinburgh Bristol and Glasgow / Edinburgh Inverness were still Mk1, the latter being the last survivor until ?1984 and on a northbound trip on that train, knowing it would almost certainly be my last trip on a Mk1 sleeper I travelled armed with small screwdriver and still have the small notice describing it was 'not designed for solid matter' which I removed from the cabinet under the sink. I had no ambition to own one of the pots!

Turning to the LMR 1984 (May) marshalling book, by then the Bristol and remaining services out of Euston (to Scotland and Liv/Man) had gone over to Mk3

Thanks for really interesting answer to my original post. My first trip was in November 1983 when Aberdeen was still using the ECML to Kings Cross (we definitely arrived in Kings X however we got there) so i must have been in a Mk3.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

Incidentally, chamber pots were also a feature of at least some European sleeping cars.

 

[alistairlees]

My recollection is they remained in situ right up to the end of Mk1 sleepers.

Checking the full year May 1982/83 and summer 1983 ScR Marshalling books (which are the most recent I have access to) shows by 82/83 all Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Kings Cross sleepers had gone over to Mk3 but even in summer '83 WCML services were a mix of Mk3 on some trains and Mk1 on others whilst both the Glasgow / Edinburgh Bristol and Glasgow / Edinburgh Inverness were still Mk1, the latter being the last survivor until ?1984 and on a northbound trip on that train, knowing it would almost certainly be my last trip on a Mk1 sleeper I travelled armed with small screwdriver and still have the small notice describing it was 'not designed for solid matter' which I removed from the cabinet under the sink. I had no ambition to own one of the pots!

Turning to the LMR 1984 (May) marshalling book, by then the Bristol and remaining services out of Euston (to Scotland and Liv/Man) had gone over to Mk3

The Scottish "internal" went to Mk3 sleeper in May 1984 I think - I am sure this was covered on another thread.

 

[185143]

No evening meals on tonight's UP Fort William portion.

 

[Essexman]

Incidentally, chamber pots were also a feature of at least some European sleeping cars.

I used the Chur / Zurich to Brussels (later Paris) sleeper a few times in the late 1990s / early 2000s. It was quite old stock and the toilet facilities in the cabin were a pot that tipped out through a hole onto the track.

 

[Davester50]

My recollection is they remained in situ right up to the end of Mk1 sleepers.

Checking the full year May 1982/83 and summer 1983 ScR Marshalling books (which are the most recent I have access to) shows by 82/83 all Aberdeen and Edinburgh to Kings Cross sleepers had gone over to Mk3 but even in summer '83 WCML services were a mix of Mk3 on some trains and Mk1 on others whilst both the Glasgow / Edinburgh Bristol and Glasgow / Edinburgh Inverness were still Mk1, the latter being the last survivor until ?1984 and on a northbound trip on that train, knowing it would almost certainly be my last trip on a Mk1 sleeper I travelled armed with small screwdriver and still have the small notice describing it was 'not designed for solid matter' which I removed from the cabinet under the sink. I had no ambition to own one of the pots!

Turning to the LMR 1984 (May) marshalling book, by then the Bristol and remaining services out of Euston (to Scotland and Liv/Man) had gone over to Mk3

This ties in with my memory from a journey around that time. I used the Royal Highlander on the then brand new Mark 3 sleeper to Inverness from Euston, but on the internal sleeper overnight, it was the old order, my dad didn't bother booking berths on it, and ended up on the seats to Edinburgh.
I can remember the atmospheric steam leaking from the carriage pipes at Inverness station, but unsure if it was from our train, or one from the Far North. Oh, and the typed up list of passenger names for each berth posted in the carriage windows.

 

[realaledrinker]

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1512023307524136960?fbclid=IwAR1iHEe16Iki5qF3qke_4CZ-ZvfLA438Kw8mRchNyKuoECq3LI1iui58r

My favourite crime author JD Kirk’s first experience of the sleeper

 

[D6130]

Wonder if he needed 73 968 for haulage?

 

[matchmaker]

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1512023307524136960?fbclid=IwAR1iHEe16Iki5qF3qke_4CZ-ZvfLA438Kw8mRchNyKuoECq3LI1iui58r

My favourite crime author JD Kirk’s first experience of the sleeper

Mine too! I wonder what Bob Hoon would have made of it? Unprintable, no doubt

 

[185143]

To be fair, they do give you earplugs. GWR don't!
You don't want to sleep on the WHL leg of the journey, that bit's for looking out of the window, or eating+drinking.

 

[Royston Vasey]

https://mobile.twitter.com/i/events/1512023307524136960?fbclid=IwAR1iHEe16Iki5qF3qke_4CZ-ZvfLA438Kw8mRchNyKuoECq3LI1iui58r

My favourite crime author JD Kirk’s first experience of the sleeper

Could he possibly moan about anything else? He seems to have set himself up not to enjoy it, and subsequently seems not to have enjoyed it...!

 

[Keverton1978]

Could he possibly moan about anything else? He seems to have set himself up not to enjoy it, and subsequently seems not to have enjoyed it...!

I have recently travelled from Inverness to Euston on the CS. I didn’t enjoy it either. The top bunk was hard, so I opted for the lower - over the bogies! Big mistake… noisy and certainly not smooth. My window had a transfer stuck over it, so I couldn’t see out properly. I was confined to my berth as I was in a classic room and I was therefore restricted to lounge car access, I couldn’t go in until an hour after leaving Inverness and was banned altogether during breakfast!

 

[Julian G]

67023+73966 worked the Inverness sleeper this morning.

 

[najaB]

Any irregular operations today? Just saw a 73 passing through Dundee heading north.

 

[Iskra]

Can anyone please explain how the weekly/nightly locomotive allocations work please?

Do the same loco's do the same portion of the sleeper each night or do they mix and match, when do the locomotives changeover?

 

[zwk500]

Can anyone please explain how the weekly/nightly locomotive allocations work please?

Do the same loco's do the same portion of the sleeper each night or do they mix and match, when do the locomotives changeover?

No idea about weekly, but the Lowlander changes locos at Carstairs and the Highlander changes locos at Edinburgh each night.

I think I'm right on the following but open to being corrected:
For the lowlander, One loco works each of the London/Glasgow portions, with the loco that works the Edinburgh to Carstairs also working the return portion back to Edinburgh.
For the Highlander, the 92 that works the train north to Edinburgh also brings the southbound train back to London. The 3 portions from North of Edinburgh are worked in by the locos that worked those portions the night before. There is the opportunity to rotate the diesels at Edinburgh, I'm not sure how often that's done.

I've no idea how the ECS moves now work.

 

[32475]

Bit of a random post, but i first used the sleeper in 1983. I have read that at one time there was a 'chamber pot' under the sink in the berths. Does anyone know when that stopped? I cant recall it being on that 1983 train.

Sorry for the late reply but I checked my old notes from when I caught the sleeper from Birmingham NS to Glasgow Central on 18-11-1982. It was Mk 1 stock and yes it had chamber pots!

 

[Scotrail84]

Any irregular operations today? Just saw a 73 passing through Dundee heading north.

Realtime Trains | 3B16 2114 Aberdeen Clayhills Car.M.D to Edinburgh | 14/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 3B16 2114 departure from Aberdeen Clayhills Car.M.D to Edinburgh on 14/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[najaB]

Realtime Trains | 3B16 2114 Aberdeen Clayhills Car.M.D to Edinburgh | 14/04/2022

Real-time train running information for 3B16 2114 departure from Aberdeen Clayhills Car.M.D to Edinburgh on 14/04/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Thanks, but the 73 I saw was heading north, just before I posted. (c. 1713)

 

[xotGD]

Can anyone please explain how the weekly/nightly locomotive allocations work please?

Do the same loco's do the same portion of the sleeper each night or do they mix and match, when do the locomotives changeover?

I kept a log of what worked what over a few weeks last year. Yes, very sad.

Anyway, normally the same pair of 92s would stick to the Lowlanders all week between Euston and Glasgow, with the same loco on the Edinburgh portion all week, and the same loco on the ECS in and out of Glasgow. Likewise the same pair of 92s would be on the Highlanders all week. North of Edinburgh was the same, swapping mid-week was uncommon.

Of course, this isn't 100%. Locos fail, need to go for exam, etc. But in a normal week there are only 5 92s working passenger.

So if you travel from Inverness to London one night and then back the next you would probably get the same locos both ways.

 

[Iskra]

No idea about weekly, but the Lowlander changes locos at Carstairs and the Highlander changes locos at Edinburgh each night.

I think I'm right on the following but open to being corrected:
For the lowlander, One loco works each of the London/Glasgow portions, with the loco that works the Edinburgh to Carstairs also working the return portion back to Edinburgh.
For the Highlander, the 92 that works the train north to Edinburgh also brings the southbound train back to London. The 3 portions from North of Edinburgh are worked in by the locos that worked those portions the night before. There is the opportunity to rotate the diesels at Edinburgh, I'm not sure how often that's done.

I've no idea how the ECS moves now work.

I kept a log of what worked what over a few weeks last year. Yes, very sad.

Anyway, normally the same pair of 92s would stick to the Lowlanders all week between Euston and Glasgow, with the same loco on the Edinburgh portion all week, and the same loco on the ECS in and out of Glasgow. Likewise the same pair of 92s would be on the Highlanders all week. North of Edinburgh was the same, swapping mid-week was uncommon.

Of course, this isn't 100%. Locos fail, need to go for exam, etc. But in a normal week there are only 5 92s working passenger.

So if you travel from Inverness to London one night and then back the next you would probably get the same locos both ways.

Thank you, and it's very useful stuff @xotGD .Planning on hiking from Corrour to Dalwhinnie and didn't want the same loco's repeating if avoidable...

 

[xotGD]

Thank you, and it's very useful stuff @xotGD .Planning on hiking from Corrour to Dalwhinnie and didn't want the same loco's repeating if avoidable...

The key is to leave a gap of one or three nights between travelling northbound and southbound. That way, the 92 you had north should be back in London working north again and you get something different.

Getting the same 73 on the FW and Inverness portions would be unlucky. And impossible on consecutive nights.

 

[InOban]

No idea about weekly, but the Lowlander changes locos at Carstairs and the Highlander changes locos at Edinburgh each night.

I think I'm right on the following but open to being corrected:
For the lowlander, One loco works each of the London/Glasgow portions, with the loco that works the Edinburgh to Carstairs also working the return portion back to Edinburgh.
For the Highlander, the 92 that works the train north to Edinburgh also brings the southbound train back to London. The 3 portions from North of Edinburgh are worked in by the locos that worked those portions the night before. There is the opportunity to rotate the diesels at Edinburgh, I'm not sure how often that's done.

I've no idea how the ECS moves now work.

And the 92 off the Highlander usually spends the day in a siding at the east end of platform 10, known as the Klondike for some reason.

 

[zwk500]

And the 92 off the Highlander usually spends the day in a siding at the east end of platform 10, known as the Klondike for some reason.

Does the shuffle of locos from the ECS moves at Euston still happen? It used to be that the loco that brought the Lowland stock in worked the highland stock out, with the loco that had brought the highland stock shunting to the siding to take the morning's lowland in and release that loco to work the highland stock to Wembley depot.

 

[43096]

Does the shuffle of locos from the ECS moves at Euston still happen? It used to be that the loco that brought the Lowland stock in worked the highland stock out, with the loco that had brought the highland stock shunting to the siding to take the morning's lowland in and release that loco to work the highland stock to Wembley depot.

Other way round, as the Highland is the first to depart. So the loco that brings the stock in (5S95) for 1S25 to Inverness is released when 1S25 leaves. Meanwhile 5S96 for the Lowland arrives behind another 92 and the loco released off 5S95 then drops on to take 1S26 north.

 

[TimboM]

Does the shuffle of locos from the ECS moves at Euston still happen? It used to be that the loco that brought the Lowland stock in worked the highland stock out, with the loco that had brought the highland stock shunting to the siding to take the morning's lowland in and release that loco to work the highland stock to Wembley depot.

There's a shuffle, but it works as follows:

Evening:
The 92 that takes in the Highlander ECS (5S95) then runs round to work the Lowlander (1S26)

The "ECS 92" that brings in the Lowlander ECS (5S96) usually runs back to Wembley after 1S26 has departed as 0A96 (although sometimes stables in Euston Middle Sidings).

Morning:
The "ECS 92" runs in from Wembley as 0M16 and works the Highlander stock to the depot as 3M16.

The now-released Highlander engine then runs round to work the Lowlander stock to the depot as 3M11, with the Lowlander loco attached to the rear.

Except on Saturday mornings when it's done in the reverse order (i.e. ECS 92 works 3M11 first and then Lowlander loco works 3M16).