paul1609
Established Member
Would you like to enlighten us with your figures then?It's a guess (it's not correct)
Would you like to enlighten us with your figures then?It's a guess (it's not correct)
Horses for courses.Another of your sweeping generalisations that you think apply everywhere because you say so regularly. My experience is a 9am start.
There is a London Edinburgh service now on the WCML. It generally seems busy to mebecause it is not time-competitive with the ECML without golborne. I thought there would still be an Edinburgh-birmingham service
Another of your sweeping generalisations that you think apply everywhere because you say so regularly. My experience is a 9am start.
That is an edinburgh-birmingham service that got merged with a london-wolverhampton service. It's purpose is to connect edinburgh with stations along the WCML. It also only runs every 2 hours, vs 2-3 trains an hour over the ECMLThere is a London Edinburgh service now on the WCML. It generally seems busy to me
it is rarely about specific start time - it is the networking opportunities that arise (particularly at either end of the day), the ability to 'walk the patch', raise your profile and (for end of day) not having to dash off to get the last day train home etc. All aspects that are likely to be beneficial for the professionals most likely to use the Lowlander for their commute.What industry do you work in, out of interest? It could be different depending on that. If a particular industry tends to work 8-4:30 rather than the more usual 9-5:30 then I could see why they'd do that, but equally someone who starts something for visitors at 9 when they know they have a long journey and will be travelling on the day is either inconsiderate or just plain wilfully obnoxious.
Even with a hotel, 9am on a Monday is pretty rotten, it takes family time, requires travel in personal time and potentially messes up a weekend away. Weekly commuters may do it, though from experience in IT they tend just to arrive later, maybe 11, leave about 2-3 on the Thursday/Friday, and make up the time during the week by working until about 7, which is fine as there's little to do bar sit in a hotel, and often some working time without colleagues about can be very productive.
it is rarely about specific start time - it is the networking opportunities that arise (particularly at either end of the day), the ability to 'walk the patch', raise your profile and (for end of day) not having to dash off to get the last day train home etc. All aspects that are likely to be beneficial for the professionals most likely to use the Lowlander for their commute.
Problem is, that means getting to Glasgow/Edinburgh around midnight - which is fine if you live locally, but not so much if you live some way away - getting to bed at, say, 2am after a 3am start the day before.Very little networking goes on at the start of the day in offices I've worked in. People aren't awake enough. First coffee over emails is the norm.
A 2000 ish departure from London would provide for an after work drink or meal.
My experience is quite the opposite - the morning slots before people get sucked into meetings all day is ideal for networking. Perhaps too many of your colleagues are taking your advice and getting up at 0200 to stagger to Glasgow Central for an 0430 departure!Very little networking goes on at the start of the day in offices I've worked in. People aren't awake enough. First coffee over emails is the norm.
And no onward connection at the far end!A 2000 ish departure from London would provide for an after work drink or meal.
Only as much as platforms (and blocks and loops along the way, where applicable) allow, though. Shuffling the train about Waverly in the middle of the night is nowhere near as big a fuss as it would be if you needed to split an over-length rake over two platforms at Euston in morning peak.You would run more beds at times of high demand; obviously you can't do it per night, it would be seasonal which is what already happens with some of the formation lengths being reduced in the winter.
Indeed. I would be surprised if anyone took it end-to-end unless their destination happened to be easily reachable from Euston station. Feels very slow with stops all the time.That is an edinburgh-birmingham service that got merged with a london-wolverhampton service. It's purpose is to connect edinburgh with stations along the WCML. It also only runs every 2 hours, vs 2-3 trains an hour over the ECML
Indeed. I would be surprised if anyone took it end-to-end unless their destination happened to be easily reachable from Euston station. Feels very slow with stops all the time.
That's worth noting, I usually get suggested east coast journeys though imagine that'll be due to Avanti not releasing their tickets early enough. I have used it for Edinburgh -Birmingham a few timesQuite a lot of people do because it offers cheap Advances compared to the ECML or fast Glasgows. Use for most of its length e.g. from MKC is also not unknown (particularly since the North Wales calls swapped to Liverpool, making connections into it at Crewe poor) though that won't be an option once the full service starts as it will no longer be a semifast south of Brum.
That's worth noting, I usually get suggested east coast journeys though imagine that'll be due to Avanti not releasing their tickets early enough. I have used it for Edinburgh -Birmingham a few times
Milton Keynes to Glasgow/Edinburgh has been quoted as a journey that will become less convenient due to HS2 presumably taking over these services.
Only once have I seen the Euston journey being cheaper than doing the journey on the ECML, but of course if you are tied to a very specific time, or are just (un)lucky with advance availability it sometimes makes sense. Though I would be pretty conifdent most people arriving in Edinburgh on one of the euston services didn't start in londonThat's worth noting, I usually get suggested east coast journeys though imagine that'll be due to Avanti not releasing their tickets early enough. I have used it for Edinburgh -Birmingham a few times
Milton Keynes to Glasgow/Edinburgh has been quoted as a journey that will become less convenient due to HS2 presumably taking over these services.
it (used to?) connect pretty handily with a long dwell at Wolves for an XC Cotswold line south coast service that seemed also to produce decent churn not to mention a few lift cycles with invariably pretty heavy luggage carried.Only once have I seen the Euston journey being cheaper than doing the journey on the ECML, but of course if you are tied to a very specific time, or are just (un)lucky with advance availability it sometimes makes sense. Though I would be pretty conifdent most people arriving in Edinburgh on one of the euston services didn't start in london
Problem is, that means getting to Glasgow/Edinburgh around midnight - which is fine if you live locally, but not so much if you live some way away - getting to bed at, say, 2am after a 3am start the day before.
Surely if its business travel they will get a taxi, and if they live outside of Edinburgh they will just drive to the airport and fly!Whilst this is true, the point is that some people do live locally, and therefore may well be tempted with a shorter time on the day train. And that it may only need a smallish proportion of people to do this to make the lowlander, or at least a full length lowlander, sufficiently less viable to be dropped.
And thats fair enough. But these days the service starts in Edinburgh and terminates in London, so to my mind it is a London Edinbugh service. It is an hour slower from Warrington to London than the service through Rugby but was popular still as it was often quite a lot cheaper on an advance ticket.That is an edinburgh-birmingham service that got merged with a london-wolverhampton service. It's purpose is to connect edinburgh with stations along the WCML. It also only runs every 2 hours, vs 2-3 trains an hour over the ECML
That assumes that travellers prefer to get up at silly o’clock to do that journey. Having tried various combinations of travel the night before, on the sleeper or first thing in the morning, the sleeper has a lot going for it. In both directions.The first current Avanti service to Euston leaves Glasgow Central at 0428, arriving 0914, a journey time of 4hrs 46mins if I get that right.
Get that down to 4hrs and the arrival is 0828. I think that would be fine for almost all business purposes. Sure, you might reach the office at 0915 instead of 0900 depending where it is but almost no office based business will care, as I've often said daily meetings and workshops tend to start at 1000 to give the host time to arrive at 0900 and prepare the room etc.
The first Edinburgh to Kings Cross is 0540 calling only at Newcastle taking a flat 4 hours, arriving at 0940, which is a bit late for an all day workshop session by the time you get to the City. I'm genuinely surprised there isn't an earlier one; if there was one at 0430-0445 ish I reckon that would make serious inroads into the Lowlander Edinburgh portion.
I agree with this. There are many theorists, accountants and mathematicians that are minded to opine on the value of the Caledonian Sleeper - especially the Lowlander - but there is a real world element most overlook. The practical experience is that it offers a journey that is very time efficient for the busy business commuter, especially in these days of mixed home/site working. On the occasions I have used the Lowlander, many seem to agree.That assumes that travellers prefer to get up at silly o’clock to do that journey. Having tried various combinations of travel the night before, on the sleeper or first thing in the morning, the sleeper has a lot going for it. In both directions.
I can't help but think that some posters' opinions on the viability/suitability of the Sleeper for business travel is coloured by their own experience of overnight travel: "I don't get any useful sleep, so why would anyone prefer it over an early morning flight?"The practical experience is that it offers a journey that is very time efficient for the busy business commuter, especially in these days of mixed home/site working. On the occasions I have used the Lowlander, many seem to agree.
I can't help but think that some posters' opinions on the viability/suitability of the Sleeper for business travel is coloured by their own experience of overnight travel: "I don't get any useful sleep, so why would anyone prefer it over an early morning flight?"
I've changed job and so almost never travel for work now, but if I was to find myself having to be down south on a regular basis I would take the train over a flight whenever the times worked.
And this is as someone who genuinely loves flying. The convenience of being able to walk to the train station in the evening, have a decent kip and wake up in London beats the experience of getting to EDI for 6am every time.
There's a temporary issue just with the seats. Should be fixed later this week.Was looking into a Seat from Glasgow to London in August.
Came up sold out, which was surprising as they were still the cheapest rate when I last looked recently.
Tried other days (and indeed months) and every day says Seats sold out.
Any ideas as to why?
(They're obviously not all sold out).