Caledonian Sleeper

[tspaul26]

I've just looked at a typical journey from London to Fort William in September using a senior travelcard and it does indeed give me a discount. When I try to do the journey for two people sharing the classic room and using a two together card, it doesn't give any discount.
Does anyone know whether this is correct, as it does list the two together railcard in the dropdown menu.

Lawrie

Two Together discount is on seats only, not berths: info here

 

[GordonT]

Find yourself one and book a cabin with her, then

I think that in the days of sharing there was a degree of operator/staff intervention to try to avoid lone females having to share a cabin with a male occupant.

 

[alistairlees]

I think that in the days of sharing there was a degree of operator/staff intervention to try to avoid lone females having to share a cabin with a male occupant.

There was no different gender sharing, except by arrangement.

 

[philosopher]

That won’t be happening, as I said. Things are complex enough as it is. The market for sharing is negligible.

A while back I saw a rendering for Nightjet’s new sleepers in which they had couchette cabins in which each berth could be fully closed off from the rest of the cabin, a bit like in a capsule hotel, therefore allowing privacy but a lower price. Could the Caledonian Sleeper introduce something similar on their trains?

 

[Bill57p9]

I think that in the days of sharing there was a degree of operator/staff intervention to try to avoid lone females having to share a cabin with a male occupant.

When booking a berth when sharing with strangers still existed I remember always being asked to specify my gender. Obviously that's a more controversial question today than it was then and I can see the potential for someone with low morals being less than truthful...

I also recall that sharing was only used as a last resort: I was upgraded to first class on a couple of occasions just to avoid it.

 

[alistairlees]

A while back I saw a rendering for Nightjet’s new sleepers in which they had couchette cabins in which each berth could be fully closed off from the rest of the cabin, a bit like in a capsule hotel, therefore allowing privacy but a lower price. Could the Caledonian Sleeper introduce something similar on their trains?

No. No ones going to be changing the current rolling stock.

 

[JamesT]

A while back I saw a rendering for Nightjet’s new sleepers in which they had couchette cabins in which each berth could be fully closed off from the rest of the cabin, a bit like in a capsule hotel, therefore allowing privacy but a lower price. Could the Caledonian Sleeper introduce something similar on their trains?

Somewhere way back in this thread I think it was stated that Couchettes were looked at when the Mk5 stock was procured, but they couldn’t make it work.

 

[lawried123]

I've just looked at a typical journey from London to Fort William in September using a senior travelcard and it does indeed give me a discount. When I try to do the journey for two people sharing the classic room and using a two together card, it doesn't give any discount.
Does anyone know whether this is correct, as it does list the two together railcard in the dropdown menu.

Lawrie

I have just at long last found the attached which explains which railcards are valid in which class of accommodation.

 

[al78]

For me, part of the pleasure of travelling by train is eating a decent meal any chance I get,

On what train journeys in the UK can you do that?

 

[Butts]

On what train journeys in the UK can you do that?

Welsh "Government Express" ?

 

[al78]

Welsh "Government Express" ?

Never heard of it.

 

[HS2isgood]

Never heard of it.

that's the Cardiff-Holyhead loco-hauled service.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I wonder how busy the first services after the strike tomorrow night will be?

 

[retsim]

It won’t ever return. It was removed before the pandemic. Most customers didn’t like it.

Good to hear. I do vaguely recall that now, but the website just doesn't mention this either way.

 

[AberdeenBill]

Will it return when the pandemic ends ?

Did it stop when the new stock was introduced ?

It stopped a little while before the new stock came in. I shared in my twenties and didn't think anything of it then, but by the time i resumed trips on the sleeper in my mid fifties i was no longer interested in sharing with a stranger. The options then were to book it and hope that there would be enough capacity that you wouldn't have to share or pay extra for single occupancy. They called this 'First Class'. It was exactly the same room but for the additional money you got use of the lounges at the termini, a better breakfast and access to the lounge car, although i dont recall anyone ever challenging me on my ticket class for this.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It stopped a little while before the new stock came in. I shared in my twenties and didn't think anything of it then, but by the time i resumed trips on the sleeper in my mid fifties i was no longer interested in sharing with a stranger. The options then were to book it and hope that there would be enough capacity that you wouldn't have to share or pay extra for single occupancy. They called this 'First Class'. It was exactly the same room but for the additional money you got use of the lounges at the termini, a better breakfast and access to the lounge car, although i dont recall anyone ever challenging me on my ticket class for this.

In the olden days when female staff were still a rarity, I recall a civil service friend of mine was always first pick as "bag-carrier" when any of her superiors had a trip to Scotland because, unlike the male junior staff, she wouldn't be expected to share a cabin with the senior officer she was travelling with, so they would both have to go First Class. As she was Scottish, she also got a free trip to see her family.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2021 ==

I wonder how busy the first services after the strike tomorrow night will be?

Difficult to say. Most people, like me, will have taken their refund (processed very efficiently and without any input required from me*) and made alternative travel arrangements. The service is generally popular on Sunday nights, so it was probably close to being fully booked long before the strike was called.

(*unlike Thello, who have still not refunded me for a cancelled booking last July)

That strike has cost four days of my life. Firstly, we had to set off for Scotland 18 hours earlier than intended, to fly up to Glasgow and then get a local train to Fort William and spend the night in a hotel there. Presumably somewhere on the plane or in the hotel (at a time when I hadn't intended to be in Scotland in the first place) I must had contact with someone with the Lurgi, as Scottish Track & Trace texted me and required me to quarantine in a hotel room in the remote Highlands for several days, postponing my return home (also by plane rather than train) by a further three days. (I have since had a negative PCR test, by the way)

 

[Sleepy]

I'm booked for August and am now wondering if a family and friends discount could have been applied? The person on the phone said no, but it was possible on the Night Riviera

The family railcard doesn't obtain any discount on CS packages, only walk up tickets. Night Riv doesn't offer any discounts to any type of railcard holder on berth inclusive tickets (children pay half price).

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 27 Jun 2021 ==

I've just looked at a typical journey from London to Fort William in September using a senior travelcard and it does indeed give me a discount. When I try to do the journey for two people sharing the classic room and using a two together card, it doesn't give any discount.
Does anyone know whether this is correct, as it does list the two together railcard in the dropdown menu.

Lawrie

The Two Together railcard does not discount any berth options, only for seated tickets. The rule of thumb with Cal Sleeper is if railcard existed in BR days you get discount if it's newer eg. 16-17 Saver or 26-30 then apart from normal "day tickets" it's doesn't give a discount. Attached chart gives CS validity by railcard type.

 

[Journeyman]

It won’t ever return. It was removed before the pandemic. Most customers didn’t like it.

Yup. CS did quite a lot of market research and found that the possibility of sharing resulted in them losing money. A lot of people who were budget conscious would rather travel in the seats than share with a stranger, so the option to share was removed as soon as possible after the Serco takeover.

GWR removed sharing as an option ages ago.

 

[Bill57p9]

Does anyone know what has happened to the down Inverness portion this morning?
From Perth onwards it seems to be losing lots of time. It was then stationary in Dunkeld & Birnam for 90 minutes.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:C83863/2021-06-27/detailed

 

[87015]

66747 collapsed on it

 

[BRX]

Yup. CS did quite a lot of market research and found that the possibility of sharing resulted in them losing money.

I've said this before, but it doesn't make any sense. As long as people are clearly given the option to share or not, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to have to share a cabin unless they specifically choose to.

If Serco's 'market research' told them that people were ending up sharing when they didn't want to, then the solution is to make sure that the options are clear at the point of booking. Not to remove an option for those who want to travel at more economic prices.

 

[Butts]

I've said this before, but it doesn't make any sense. As long as people are clearly given the option to share or not, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to have to share a cabin unless they specifically choose to.

If Serco's 'market research' told them that people were ending up sharing when they didn't want to, then the solution is to make sure that the options are clear at the point of booking. Not to remove an option for those who want to travel at more economic prices.

Were First's Bargain Berths sharing ?

 

[Journeyman]

Were First's Bargain Berths sharing ?

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2021 ==

I've said this before, but it doesn't make any sense. As long as people are clearly given the option to share or not, there's absolutely no reason for anyone to have to share a cabin unless they specifically choose to.

If Serco's 'market research' told them that people were ending up sharing when they didn't want to, then the solution is to make sure that the options are clear at the point of booking. Not to remove an option for those who want to travel at more economic prices.

It makes a lot of sense. Over the years sharing became extremely unpopular indeed, and it was found by the time CS took over that it was actively putting off a lot of people from using the service.

It was always made clear that you could end up sharing if you booked in Standard. The option to avoid sharing was travelling in First - which, obviously, was more expensive because it cut capacity. The Classic Room solo option can actually be cheaper than a First Class berth of old.

I was OK with sharing when I was younger, but there’s absolutely no way I'd tolerate it now, and most other people wouldn't either.

Unfortunately, CS's budget option, the sleeping pods (similar to lie-flat airline seats) had many issues at the development stage and didn't materialise.

 

[Butts]

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2021 ==


It makes a lot of sense. Over the years sharing became extremely unpopular indeed, and it was found by the time CS took over that it was actively putting off a lot of people from using the service.

It was always made clear that you could end up sharing if you booked in Standard.

I was OK with sharing when I was younger, but there’s absolutely no way I'd tolerate it now, and most other people wouldn't either.

Unfortunately, CS's budget option, the sleeping pods (similar to lie-flat airline seats) had many issues at the development stage and didn't materialise.

During the recent strike action why didn't they borrow a Train from another operator to provide a service albeit with no berths.

An all 1st Class HST would be better than nothing.

I suppose it is cheaper just to refund.

If they'd really wanted to splash out they could have hired an Embraer E 190. It could have flown to Glasgow (coach for those going to FW) across to Edinburgh up to Aberdeen and then over to Inverness. All that could have been achieved in half the time it takes the sleeper to make all the separate journeys.

Do people on here realise an Embraer could take off from London City as a Train is crossing the Border and beat it to either Edinburgh or Glasgow ? Inverness and Aberdeen don't even think about it

 

[BRX]

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2021 ==


It makes a lot of sense. Over the years sharing became extremely unpopular indeed, and it was found by the time CS took over that it was actively putting off a lot of people from using the service.

It was always made clear that you could end up sharing if you booked in Standard. The option to avoid sharing was travelling in First - which, obviously, was more expensive because it cut capacity. The Classic Room solo option can actually be cheaper than a First Class berth of old.

I was OK with sharing when I was younger, but there’s absolutely no way I'd tolerate it now, and most other people wouldn't either.

Unfortunately, CS's budget option, the sleeping pods (similar to lie-flat airline seats) had many issues at the development stage and didn't materialise.

Either people were unintentionally ending up sharing - in which case, make sure that doesn't happen by making things clearer at the booking stage - or, any sharing was intentional but not very popular so many people opted for it. In the latter case, removing it as an option doesn't benefit passengers in any way.

I reckon the real reason it was removed was that often a cabin would end up in single occupancy by someone who had paid the sharing price, and it was decided that more revenue could be earned by making sure that any single-occupant cabin was earning as high a price as could be obtained.

That may be a logical commercial decision, but it's just nonsense to pretend that the new arrangement is better for (potential) passengers.

 

[Journeyman]

Either people were unintentionally ending up sharing - in which case, make sure that doesn't happen by making things clearer at the booking stage - or, any sharing was intentional but not very popular so many people opted for it. In the latter case, removing it as an option doesn't benefit passengers in any way.

I reckon the real reason it was removed was that often a cabin would end up in single occupancy by someone who had paid the sharing price, and it was decided that more revenue could be earned by making sure that any single-occupant cabin was earning as high a price as could be obtained.

That may be a logical commercial decision, but it's just nonsense to pretend that the new arrangement is better for (potential) passengers.

I don't think you understand just how unpopular sharing was. Many people wouldn't use the sleeper at all because of it. The market research was absolutely overwhelming. Pretty much no-one was willing to share any more.

CS certainly don't have any trouble filling trains these days, so I think they got it right.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2021 ==

During the recent strike action why didn't they borrow a Train from another operator to provide a service albeit with no berths.

An all 1st Class HST would be better than nothing.

They tried it once during an earlier strike, and it caused horrific ill-feeling and conflict with staff and union reps, to the point that abuse and intimidation was being thrown around.

 

[al78]

Yes.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jun 2021 ==


It makes a lot of sense. Over the years sharing became extremely unpopular indeed, and it was found by the time CS took over that it was actively putting off a lot of people from using the service.

It was always made clear that you could end up sharing if you booked in Standard. The option to avoid sharing was travelling in First - which, obviously, was more expensive because it cut capacity. The Classic Room solo option can actually be cheaper than a First Class berth of old.

I was OK with sharing when I was younger, but there’s absolutely no way I'd tolerate it now, and most other people wouldn't either.

Unfortunately, CS's budget option, the sleeping pods (similar to lie-flat airline seats) had many issues at the development stage and didn't materialise.

I've used the sleeper in the days when you had the option of either first class (berth to yourself) or standard class (you might have to share), and took the latter option and got lucky, no sharing on my journey. I can see why the possibility of sharing would put people off. The berths are very small and it is compact even for one person and their luggage, with two it would be almost like trying to share a one-person tent. Unfortunately not having the option of sharing does reduce the capacity of the sleeper, it is not clear whether that has resulted in any reduction in revenue.

 

[Journeyman]

I've used the sleeper in the days when you had the option of either first class (berth to yourself) or standard class (you might have to share), and took the latter option and got lucky, no sharing on my journey. I can see why the possibility of sharing would put people off. The berths are very small and it is compact even for one person and their luggage, with two it would be almost like trying to share a one-person tent. Unfortunately not having the option of sharing does reduce the capacity of the sleeper, it is not clear whether that has resulted in any reduction in revenue.

If you travelled on a quiet train, you often wouldn't have to share, and if there was spare space, the staff would do their best to make sure as many people as possible had berths to themselves. But, of course, it was never guaranteed they'd be able to do it, and I found it quite stressful waiting to find out whether I'd have a bunkmate. On one occasion, I was asleep until someone barged in at about two in the morning, after getting tanked up in the lounge car. He then spent ages getting into bed, thumping and clattering around, and snored like an elephant the rest of the way. No way would I put up with that again.

The unpredictable nature of it was pretty grim.

 

[Butts]

If you travelled on a quiet train, you often wouldn't have to share, and if there was spare space, the staff would do their best to make sure as many people as possible had berths to themselves. But, of course, it was never guaranteed they'd be able to do it, and I found it quite stressful waiting to find out whether I'd have a bunkmate. On one occasion, I was asleep until someone barged in at about two in the morning, after getting tanked up in the lounge car. He then spent ages getting into bed, thumping and clattering around, and snored like an elephant the rest of the way. No way would I put up with that again.

The unpredictable nature of it was pretty grim.

Would being a female have been an advantage in those days as you would almost have been guaranteed a berth to yourself ?

If Serco are achieving capacity is there not a market for a couple of overnight all 1st Class Carriage HST services to at least Glasgow and Edinburgh ?

 

[Journeyman]

Would being a female have been an advantage in those days as you would almost have been guaranteed a berth to yourself ?

Quite possibly.