Caledonian Sleeper

[popeter45]

UK gauge trains can't use the Eurostar platforms at St Pancras, Stratford, Ebbsfleet or Ashford as the platforms are too low and there's a huge gap between the platform and the train. Ashford has an unofficial scaffold board for the use of engineering trains!

373's are pretty much UK loading gauge
also as its not the fastest loading not that much to add a few placeable steps on the platform

 

[paul1609]

373's are pretty much UK loading gauge
also as its not the fastest loading not that much to add a few placeable steps on the platform

It's the rulebook. I presume that the 373 nol sets must have had adjustable steps (like the pendolinos). When the 395s used the Stratford International platforms for the Olympics the platforms were temporarily rebuilt with a wooden structure over the top. Either way the CS stock is unsuitable for calling at hs1 international platforms without major modification.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I know people who use the Caledonian Sleeper multiple times per year.
Last time I travelled on it I sat at a table in the club car with a freelance journalist who made a return trip every week. He was on first name terms with all the stewards which considerably speeded up our drinks service!

On my last trip to Glasgow, I had the odd experience of watching a current affairs programme on my tablet computer, knowing that the presenter was on the train! (We had met him in the Club lounge, having just arrived at Euston after recording it earlier that evening)

(I didn't watch much of it - iplayer reception wasn't brilliant on a moving train).

I presume that the 373 nol sets must have had adjustable steps (like the pendolinos).

They did. But not for that reason. 373s did not call at any normal platforms in the UK - only the International platforms at Waterloo and Ashford, which were built to the same designs as those at Brussels Midi and Paris GdN.

But I recall at Lille they extended steps down to reach the Continetal-style low level platforms.

How they would have worked on the North of London services I dont know.

 

[Steve Harris]

373s did not call at any normal platforms in the UK - only the International platforms at Waterloo and Ashford, which were built to the same designs as those at Brussels Midi and Paris GdN.

I must of dreamt that I travelled on a 373 NoL set operating a GNER York - London King's Cross service about 27 years ago !

Likewise the 373 NoL set I travelled on from Peterborough to Leeds circa 2000 must of been a fantasy too.

Getting back on topic - I never did use the lounge when I used the sleeper (mk III days).

 

[merry]

I must of dreamt that I travelled on a 373 NoL set operating a GNER York - London King's Cross service about 27 years ago !

Likewise the 373 NoL set I travelled on from Peterborough to Leeds circa 2000 must of been a fantasy too

Nope. All real. 373s were used on regular ECML services for some years (after mk4 losses at Hatfield and Potters Bar). Selective door opening was among the required features, as they were too long for most platforms ( and only fitted a few at KGX, 0 1 and 8 iirc) A very nice ride too.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I must of dreamt that I travelled on a 373 NoL set operating a GNER York - London King's Cross service about 27 years ago !

Likewise the 373 NoL set I travelled on from Peterborough to Leeds circa 2000 must of been a fantasy too.

I'd forgotten them. How was it done? Did the NoL sets have different arrangements? because a 373 and 374 both fit the International platforms at St Pancras.

 

[D6130]

years (after mk4 losses at Hatfield and Potters Bar). Sel

I think you're thinking of Hatfield and Great Heck. The train involved in the Potters Bar accident was a 365.

 

[Krokodil]

They did. But not for that reason. 373s did not call at any normal platforms in the UK - only the International platforms at Waterloo and Ashford, which were built to the same designs as those at Brussels Midi and Paris GdN.

A friend of mine was a Eurostar guard in 3rd rail days. He says that 373s had lower steps which deployed when calling at European platforms. Waterloo International was at UK height but wider width.

Once had to terminate at a station in the SE as there was only one working traction motor. All passengers transferred onto an eight-coach Connex slammer, borrowed specially. I presume that the station was designated in some contingency plan, such that the platform could be sealed from the rest as the train was bonded for customs purposes. Don't forget also that Kensington Olympia was the contingency terminus in the event that Waterloo was inaccessible.

 

[BRX]

Picture here of a 373 at st pancras with steps deployed:

Class 373 - 3205

 

[railfan99]

A friend who is on the southbound Caledonian Sleeper this morning UK time says the train was 2-3 minutes early at most stations, but upon arrival at Camden, headed west to the West Coast main line and then north to Wembley (Receptions) where the locos would run round and pull the train into Euston.

The train arrived five minutes early at Wembley, but when he texted me a few minutes ago, the 'CS' had been there for an hour and had had only just started moving.

So an 0800 hours arrival becomes 0920. Apparently they were waiting for a driver. Perhaps a complication was not every driver has what we in Oz call route knowledge and you in UK '(being) signed.'

 

[Deafdoggie]

A friend who is on the southbound Caledonian Sleeper this morning UK time says the train was 2-3 minutes early at most stations, but upon arrival at Camden, headed west to the West Coast main line and then north to Wembley (Receptions) where the locos would run round and pull the train into Euston.

The train arrived five minutes early at Wembley, but when he texted me a few minutes ago, the 'CS' had been there for an hour and had had only just started moving.

So an 0800 hours arrival becomes 0920. Apparently they were waiting for a driver. Perhaps a complication was not every driver has what we in Oz call route knowledge and you in UK '(being) signed.'

The Highlander wasn't scheduled to arrive into Euston until 08:45 this morning. So a 35 minute delay.

 

[railfan99]

The Highlander wasn't scheduled to arrive into Euston until 08:45 this morning. So a 35 minute delay.

Being from overseas, I'm not familiar with all the possible inner London routes. Is this deviation normal or were there problems at Euston this morning stopping it from running straight into that London terminus?

 

[zero]

Being from overseas, I'm not familiar with all the possible inner London routes. Is this deviation normal or were there problems at Euston this morning stopping it from running straight into that London terminus?

On many Sunday (and sometimes other) nights in the first half of the year, at least for the past few years, the CS is scheduled to use the East Coast Main Line instead of the West, in both directions.

It is impossible to run into Euston from the ECML, so the train has to reverse at Wembley and this is planned, some of us deliberately take the Sleeper when it goes this way. However it typically isn't delayed by such a lengthy time.

 

[zwk500]

A friend who is on the southbound Caledonian Sleeper this morning UK time says the train was 2-3 minutes early at most stations, but upon arrival at Camden, headed west to the West Coast main line and then north to Wembley (Receptions) where the locos would run round and pull the train into Euston.

This bit is quite normal when the train is diverted via the East Coast (Newcastle & Peterborough). It's normal route is via Crewe on the West Coast Main Line. The sleeper does not use King's Cross (the normal London ECML terminus) as it is too long for the platforms there

Apparently they were waiting for a driver. Perhaps a complication was not every driver has what we in Oz call route knowledge and you in UK '(being) signed.'

It's also called Route Knowledge in the UK ('signing the route' is a less formal expression meaning to have route knowledge), however I suspect Traction knowledge might have been the bigger problem! (In the UK drivers need to have knowledge of each class of traction as well as of each route. Wembley-Euston is a fairly major route, but the Class 92s used for the Sleeper are much less common).

 

[43096]

It's also called Route Knowledge in the UK ('signing the route' is a less formal expression meaning to have route knowledge), however I suspect Traction knowledge might have been the bigger problem! (In the UK drivers need to have knowledge of each class of traction as well as of each route. Wembley-Euston is a fairly major route, but the Class 92s used for the Sleeper are much less common).

I would expect that most, if not all, GBRf drivers (as they drive the sleepers) who have route knowledge into Euston would also have Class 92 traction competence.

 

[185143]

This bit is quite normal when the train is diverted via the East Coast (Newcastle & Peterborough). It's normal route is via Crewe on the West Coast Main Line. The sleeper does not use King's Cross (the normal London ECML terminus) as it is too long for the platforms there

It's also called Route Knowledge in the UK ('signing the route' is a less formal expression meaning to have route knowledge), however I suspect Traction knowledge might have been the bigger problem! (In the UK drivers need to have knowledge of each class of traction as well as of each route. Wembley-Euston is a fairly major route, but the Class 92s used for the Sleeper are much less common).

They do if Euston itself is shut.

Means shortening the train though, so it's very much a last resort. Was done on Easter Monday as I was onboard.

 

[zwk500]

They do if Euston itself is shut.

Means shortening the train though, so it's very much a last resort. Was done on Easter Monday as I was onboard.

IIRC it had been confirmed (by @The Planner?) That there would no longer be an inaccessible route to Euston.

 

[The Planner]

IIRC it had been confirmed (by @The Planner?) That there would no longer be an inaccessible route to Euston.

They will do it if there really is no other option, and it has to be a lot shorter. Normally CS request a route into Euston even if blocks have to be taken after the ECS leaves from what I am told. Easter probably took a bit of negotiation.

 

[BRX]

On those occasions is the sleeper sometimes the only train using Euston station?

 

[doc7austin]

Hi, I still have an ongoing issue with Caledonian Sleeper. The customer service is no help at all.
So how is the franchisee and franchiser ? Because I am thinking about escalating my complaint to the two aforementioned parties.

The complaint is about the policy that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car - in case the toilets stop working in the sleeping car. Customer service is telling me that such a policy is in place.

 

[ajrm]

Hi, I still have an ongoing issue with Caledonian Sleeper. The customer service is no help at all.
So how is the franchisee and franchiser ? Because I am thinking about escalating my complaint to the two aforementioned parties.

The complaint is about the policy that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car - in case the toilets stop working in the sleeping car. Customer service is telling me that such a policy is in place.

Why would this even be an issue? There's two toilets in each sleeping car for the use of those who don't have en-suite, and if one carriage is out then you can use the toilets in the adjacent sleeper cars. Depending on which portion you're in that's giving you plenty of options. Why would you need to use the seated car? I don't see an issue with the toilets in there being reserved for those using the seats.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Hi, I still have an ongoing issue with Caledonian Sleeper. The customer service is no help at all.
So how is the franchisee and franchiser ? Because I am thinking about escalating my complaint to the two aforementioned parties.

The complaint is about the policy that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car - in case the toilets stop working in the sleeping car. Customer service is telling me that such a policy is in place.

I can see the logic of not wanting the seating car passengers wandering around the sleeping coaches so it makes sense to not let the toilet(s) in the sleeping SEATING car get over used. There should be enough alternatives within adjacent sleeping coaches for sleeping car passengers.

Edit - typo fixed above.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Why would this even be an issue? There's two toilets in each sleeping car for the use of those who don't have en-suite, and if one carriage is out then you can use the toilets in the adjacent sleeper cars. Depending on which portion you're in that's giving you plenty of options. Why would you need to use the seated car? I don't see an issue with the toilets in there being reserved for those using the seats.

Some people just like to complain about anything!

Hi, I still have an ongoing issue with Caledonian Sleeper. The customer service is no help at all.
So how is the franchisee and franchiser ? Because I am thinking about escalating my complaint to the two aforementioned parties.

The complaint is about the policy that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car - in case the toilets stop working in the sleeping car. Customer service is telling me that such a policy is in place.

Presumably you've complained to Caledonian Sleeper about this? They are the franchisee I can't see the franchiser caring that seated people have access to a toilet but not the sleeper portion (if you're giving sleeper passengers access to the seats, they need to get back) There are plenty of toilets in the berth section, and should they all fail there are bigger problems the train is facing. Why do you think this is an issue?

 

[doc7austin]

Some people just like to complain about anything!

Well, I thought that the staff behaved in a very rude way.

What happened - the toilet in the ensuite cabin stopped working.
I overheard the passenger in the adjacent cabin complaining about the same thing.

Depending on which portion you're in that's giving you plenty of options. Why would you need to use the seated car?

Next to our sleeping car was the dining car. So I went there. Unfortunately, I was not able to find a toilet in that car. So I walked further - into the seating car - well I tried at least.
The staff yelled at me - that it was policy that sleeping car passenger are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car. I was appalled, esp. by the rudeness of the staff.

I can see the logic of not wanting the seating car passengers wandering around the sleeping coaches so it makes sense to not let the toilet(s) in the sleeping car get over used.

Well yes, as I was not a seating car passenger that policy should not apply.

There should be enough alternatives within adjacent sleeping coaches for sleeping car passengers.

Where is the toilet in the dining car ?

Why would you need to use the seated car?

... because I couldn't find a toilet in the dining car.

I don't see an issue with the toilets in there being reserved for those using the seats.

And that policy I would like to check with the "owners" (franchisee /franchiser or whomever you want to call them).

There are plenty of toilets in the berth section, and should they all fail there are bigger problems the train is facing.

The fact that the passengers in the adjacent cabin were complaining about that as well, leads me to believe that there are indeed bigger problems.

Why do you think this is an issue?

... being yelled at by the train staff.

 

[Deafdoggie]

Well, I thought that the staff behaved in a very rude way.

What happened - the toilet in the ensuite cabin stopped working.
I overheard the passenger in the adjacent cabin complaining about the same thing.


Next to our sleeping car was the dining car. So I went there. Unfortunately, I was not able to find a toilet in that car. So I walked further - into the seating car - well I tried at least.
The staff yelled at me - that it was policy that sleeping car passenger are not allowed to use the toilets in the seating car. I was appalled, esp. by the rudeness of the staff.


Well yes, as I was not a seating car passenger that policy should not apply.


Where is the toilet in the dining car ?


... because I couldn't find a toilet in the dining car.


And that policy I would like to check with the "owners" (franchisee /franchiser or whomever you want to call them).



The fact that the passengers in the adjacent cabin were complaining about that as well, leads me to believe that there are indeed bigger problems.


... being yelled at by the train staff.

So the problem isn't not being able to use the seated passengers toilet, but staff attitude. If you'd explained to staff that the ensuite doesn't work, they'd direct you to the toilets in your coach.

 

[doc7austin]

So the problem isn't not being able to use the seated passengers toilet, but staff attitude.

Yes, it is about staff attitude.

If you'd explained to staff that the ensuite doesn't work, they'd direct you to the toilets in your coach.

Well, I am standing in front of a free toilet in the seating car and I am not allowed to use it.
If my toilet and the toilet of the adjacent cabin didn't work, how high are the chances that there would be another working toilet in my booked car ?


If travelling through Southeastern Europe, I would let this attitude go.
But I've thought in the UK, people are a bit more sensitive about that.

No, the staff insisted on that there is a policy in place that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the seating car toilet.
Pointing out to the ridicule nature of this policy didn't help. Even Caledonian Sleeper customer service wouldn't budge.

 

[jfowkes]

No, the staff insisted on that there is a policy in place that sleeping car passengers are not allowed to use the seating car toilet.
Pointing out to the ridicule nature of this policy didn't help. Even Caledonian Sleeper customer service wouldn't budge.

It's a perfectly sensible policy. The seated coach is already hard to get a decent sleep in, without the additional disturbance of passengers coming in to use the loo.

There are loads of toilets on a CS train, more than enough that sleeping car passengers don't need to use the seated car ones.

 

[doc7austin]

There are loads of toilets on a CS train, more than enough that sleeping car passengers don't need to use the seated car ones.

Is there a toilet in the dining car ?

 

[jfowkes]

Is there a toilet in the dining car ?

No. Good diagrams for each type of coach are on seat61 by the way: https://www.seat61.com/sleeper-to-scotland.htm

 

[Bletchleyite]

Staff being rude isn't very good, though, is it? Surely it should be "I'm afraid that toilet is only for seated car passengers, Sir, can you use this toilet here please? By the way I'm really sorry yours isn't working, what is your room number? OK, I'll make sure a full refund is on the way to your card, nothing else for you to do, you'll receive it in a few days."

These are premium passengers who have paid a fortune and should be treated in the deferential and polite manner they would be in a premium hotel, not a motorway service station Travelodge.