"Calendar month" definition - monthly seasons

[stephenhartley]

Monthly season tickets are retailed on the basis of a "calendar month", but how is this defined; is there any industry standard algorithm in use?

Examples:

Start date: 15 Jan gives last valid date 14 Feb.

Start 31 Jan = end 28 Feb in non leap year, 29 in leap years.

Start 29 Feb in leap year = end 31 March.

Start 31 May = end 30 June

Correct? Or not!

Lots of assumptions here, interested in any comments...

 

[bb21]

I think a monthly starting 29th Feb will finish on 28th March, I think.

Otherwise yes.

 

[Albion91]

I think if it begins on d/m, it ends on (d-1)/(m+1).

 

[Romilly]

My experience is in line with bb21's comment.

It is worth mentioning that you can buy season tickets for any period between a month and a year.

Suppose in 2018 you want monthly tickets for the period Tuesday 2nd January to Maundy Thursday 29th March. You could buy three one-month tickets. Or you could buy a ticket for (say) 2nd January to Friday 9th February (1 month and 8 days) plus a ticket for Monday 12th February to Thursday 29th March (1 month and 18 days). 2 months and 26 days is going to cost less than 3 months. (It's even better in a year when Easter is a bit later and you can avoid having 28 February and 1 March covered by the same season ticket.)

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think if it begins on d/m, it ends on (d-1)/(m+1).

Yes, that is my experience.

 

[Seacook]

My monthly season ticket for travel in the West Midlands runs from the third of the month to the second of the following month inclusive. It does not matter how long each month lasts. It is issued and administered by West Midlands Combined Authority, though.

 

[Paul Kelly]

Start 29 Feb in leap year = end 31 March.

That doesn't look right at all; that would give you a validity of 32 days which is longer than a calendar month by any definition! It should be 28 March, I think. The other examples all look right to me.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

....Start 29 Feb in leap year = end 31 March....

Start 28th February - Ends 27th March
Start 29th February - Ends 28th March
Start 1st March - Ends 31st March

 

[Seacook]

Start 28th February - Ends 27th March
Start 29th February - Ends 28th March
Start 1st March - Ends 31st March

[Start 31/01 end 27/02] Start 28/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;
[Start 31/01 end 28/02] Start 29/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;

Note that the 'short' month is for the ticket bought at the end of January and does not need to be repeated for the one bought in February. (If the ticket expiring in February was bought on 28/01 then the validity would always end on the 27th of every month.)

 

[hairyhandedfool]

[Start 31/01 end 27/02] Start 28/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;
[Start 31/01 end 28/02] Start 29/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;

Note that the 'short' month is for the ticket bought at the end of January and does not need to be repeated for the one bought in February. (If the ticket expiring in February was bought on 28/01 then the validity would always end on the 27th of every month.)

I have no idea what you are going on about, I'm not even sure you do.

 

[alistairlees]

My monthly season ticket for travel in the West Midlands runs from the third of the month to the second of the following month inclusive. It does not matter how long each month lasts. It is issued and administered by West Midlands Combined Authority, though.

Do you have one of the monthly direct debit products? Are you using a Swift Card (WMCA smart card)?

There used to be 28-day (4-week) season tickets in the West Midlands for flows set by the PTE, I think they may exist for paper tickets only now.

I could find out, unless anyone else knows?

 

[RJ]

Start 28th February - Ends 27th March
Start 29th February - Ends 28th March
Start 1st March - Ends 31st March

Agreed.

 

[RJ]

[Start 31/01 end 27/02] Start 28/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;
[Start 31/01 end 28/02] Start 29/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;

Note that the 'short' month is for the ticket bought at the end of January and does not need to be repeated for the one bought in February. (If the ticket expiring in February was bought on 28/01 then the validity would always end on the 27th of every month.)

Everything you've said is wrong - hairyhandedfool was correct.

 

[alistairlees]

It is worth mentioning that you can buy season tickets for any period between a month and a year.

Not quite. The maximum length you can buy for is a year; but the next-longest season ticket you can buy is 10 months and 12* days, as any longer than this costs the same as an annual season, and therefore the customer should be given an annual season and NOT 10 months and 13 days, or 11 months, or any other duration between 10 months 12 days and a year.

In leap years a year is 366 days of course, but the price is still the same.

The NationalRail.co.uk website gets this wrong of course, stating "any duration between 1 month and a year". See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/season_tickets.aspx. To be fair, it does at least make explanation clearer, and the customer is no worse off.

*I thought it was 10 months and 11 days actually, but the NRE website season ticket calculator does not seem to agree with me.

 

[alistairlees]

Start 28th February - Ends 27th March
Start 29th February - Ends 28th March
Start 1st March - Ends 31st March

Yes this is correct. The minimum is 28 days, the maximum is 31, for a monthly season ticket. The price is the same.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Not quite. The maximum length you can buy for is a year; but the next-longest season ticket you can buy is 10 months and 12* days, as any longer than this costs the same as an annual season, and therefore the customer should be given an annual season and NOT 10 months and 13 days, or 11 months, or any other duration between 10 months 12 days and a year.

In leap years a year is 366 days of course, but the price is still the same.

The NationalRail.co.uk website gets this wrong of course, stating "any duration between 1 month and a year". See http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/season_tickets.aspx. To be fair, it does at least make explanation clearer, and the customer is no worse off.

*I thought it was 10 months and 11 days actually, but the NRE website season ticket calculator does not seem to agree with me.

You CAN buy anything from a month to a year, if you really wanted to, and believe me there are people out there who are, what's the politest words I can use... stupid enough to insist on it.

 

[alistairlees]

You CAN buy anything from a month to a year, if you really wanted to, and believe me there are people out there who are, what's the politest words I can use... stupid enough to insist on it.

Yes, I should probably have made it clear that it's good practice on websites to automatically round up to a year for anything over 10 months 12 days, and that websites are supposed to be implemented that way (I don't know if they all are though).

But at stations you can buy any duration up to a year (even if it doesn't always make sense) if you really want.

 

[RJ]

The only customers I regularly get buying odd period tickets are parents getting seasons for their child's commute. They tend to ask for a season ticket matching the term dates. Sometimes they don't even know what the term dates are! Most commuters not in the slightest bit interested in dealing with anything other than weeklies, monthlies or annual tickets - ticket buying is a process which people like to expend as little thought as possible on.

 

[yorkie]

[Start 31/01 end 27/02] Start 28/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;
[Start 31/01 end 28/02] Start 29/02 end 30/03 followed by start 31/03 end 29/04;

Note that the 'short' month is for the ticket bought at the end of January and does not need to be repeated for the one bought in February. (If the ticket expiring in February was bought on 28/01 then the validity would always end on the 27th of every month.)

I do not understand this post, with the exception of the text in brackets, which is the only part that is correct (but could be simply worded: A ticket commencing 28/01 is valid until 27/02)

 

[Albion91]

I think he might be getting at the point that you can end up with a 'short' ticket bought in January or in February but not in both? Or maybe I'm overthinking what is written...

i.e. If you buy a month on 30/1 or 31/1, it covers you until 28/2. (30 or 29 days respectively - shorter than January's 31)

But doing so means you will not have to buy one until March 1st and consequently you will not have bought a 28 day February monthly ticket.

 

[Seacook]

I have no idea what you are going on about, I'm not even sure you do.

Let me go through a year for you and clarify:

Buying a ticket on Jan 1, then Feb 1, Mar 1, etc. The twelfth ticket expires 31 Dec after 365 or 366 days

Buy a ticket on Dec 31, then Jan 31, Feb 28 or 29, Mar 28 or 29, Apr 28 or 29, etc. The twelfth ticket expires on Dec 27 or 28 after 362 or 364 days.

These two patterns are not equivalent in purchasing power. I don't understand why you think they might be.

 

[bb21]

Buying a monthly valid from 31 Jan would see your ticket last until 28/29 Feb, with the next purchase starting on 1 March, so this cycle actually goes on for an extra day with the December one valid until 31 Dec. Obviously on a rolling basis the next cycle would start from 1 Jan then 1 Feb rather than 31 Jan.

So on a rolling basis there is no difference.

 

[Seacook]

Buying a monthly valid from 31 Jan would see your ticket last until 28/29 Feb, with the next purchase starting on 1 March, so this cycle actually goes on for an extra day with the December one valid until 31 Dec. Obviously on a rolling basis the next cycle would start from 1 Jan then 1 Feb rather than 31 Jan.

So on a rolling basis there is no difference.

You are right. I got that wrong. It always self'corrects after a year. It was something that was ignored earlier.