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There isn’t much in the second hand market, so they will have to make do until the new ferries are ready.
To be fair to them, they have been trying. They hired Ben my Chree from us for berthing trials on the Arran routes, but sadly the berthing trials failed- it could berth, just, but it was right at the tolerance limit.
The shipyard was obviously kept open for political reasons, and those political reasons have backfired on them massively. But it doesn’t mean any of this is fraudulent or illegal. It means they were trying to keep the last shipyard in Glasgow going and it’s all blown up in their faces.
If they’d gone and bought them off the shelf from South Korea, putting the last shipyard in Glasgow out of business, then the same politicians would have been labelling that a scandal too.
The shipyard was obviously kept open for political reasons, and those political reasons have backfired on them massively. But it doesn’t mean any of this is fraudulent or illegal. It means they were trying to keep the last shipyard in Glasgow going and it’s all blown up in their faces.
If they’d gone and bought them off the shelf from South Korea, putting the last shipyard in Glasgow out of business, then the same politicians would have been labelling that a scandal too.
I don't think it would have been a good news story either way, I agree. But there were some attempts to shore up Ferguson later on, which were, at the very least, foolish.
There isn’t much in the second hand market, so they will have to make do until the new ferries are ready.
To be fair to them, they have been trying. They hired Ben my Chree from us for berthing trials on the Arran routes, but sadly the berthing trials failed- it could berth, just, but it was right at the tolerance limit.
Yes, the problem with CalMac is also that they've had to operate for years with a very mixed bag in terms of port facilities. It's getting better, but a lot of the infrastructure pre-CMAL was very much whatever they could cobble together for as little as possible. The end result is that they've ended up with something like Jadrolinija, where the fleet reflects what they can actually use at various ports.
I don't blame CalMac or CMAL here, they've been quite consistently pushing for improvements and standardisation across the fleet so that they can move ships around as needed. Ben my Chree showed that they haven't always got it right though, as she failed berthing in Brodick despite the huge amount of money spent on the new terminal there. But again, will Arran ever need (or be able to accommodate) more than the two Glen sisters?
The shipyard was obviously kept open for political reasons, and those political reasons have backfired on them massively. But it doesn’t mean any of this is fraudulent or illegal. It means they were trying to keep the last shipyard in Glasgow going and it’s all blown up in their faces.
I think the problem was expecting Ferguson's to be able to handle a very highly complicated order. They knew nothing about LNG, and from what we know, they were working with an incomplete design that kept changing. The shipyard isn't blameless, but the project was clearly way beyond their means. If the intention was to save the shipyard, then the best and most sensible option would have been to go with a standard marine fuel ship that was designed to be switched to all-electric at a later point, rather than messing about with LNG.
If they’d gone and bought them off the shelf from South Korea, putting the last shipyard in Glasgow out of business, then the same politicians would have been labelling that a scandal too.
Probably the best bet would have been to leave the large new builds to companies that could deliver them, and then use Ferguson's to create a fleet of battery-powered ships for the smaller routes. The small vessels needed a plan for replacement, and they could easily have extended the order to include replacement ferries for Shetland and Orkney councils too. At that point, with such a large order, it might even have been possible with some good lobbying to convince other shipping companies to consider jumping on the order too. Jadrolinija for example might well have been interested in a 'all but cost price' order to replace some of the junk they still use.
Would it have secured the shipyard in the long run? Probably not.
Edit: has anything official been said about the plans for Arran timetables in future? The existing 1800 / 1830 last departure from the mainland has always seemed a bit crap, especially when Mull has departures far later into the evening. It would be nice to at least see a 21:00 departure from Ardrossan from Sunday-Thursday, and even better, a 23:00 departure on Friday and Saturday evenings.
In view of the issues regarding the availability, transport and storage of LNG, in the event that some sort of enquiry is held into the sorry state of affairs surrounding the procurement of these ships, I hope the person or persons responsible for the LNG recommendation is held to account.
The Audit Scotland reports into the procurement of 801/2 is very instructive around the issues around the delayed introduction of these vessels. The LNG issue, is a bit of a red herring in that regard, but is another concern for the future.
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It would be an insane amount of money for less than 30k people!
It would be a tunnel so dangerous goods might not even be allowed
My crayoning always hits the buffers when I look at the shore infrastructure needed - even a minimalist bypass of Greenock would add massively to the bill. Plus the necessary road improvements the other side would be expensive and deeply unpopular.
The future is electric ferries. What I don’t understand is how the mismanagement of ferry replacement hasnt been a bigger scandal - has anyone been criminally investigated or at least sacked?
Well Ferguson's has its third CEO in a relatively short period, but the issue really is that both customer and supplier are now entirely ScotsGov controlled, meaning the SNP, and it's there that the buck needs to stop. Even for a political party they're notably unwilling to be accountable when things go wrong in a whole host of areas.
If you've not seen them, the two AS reports into this fiasco are very enlightening.
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I think the problem was expecting Ferguson's to be able to handle a very highly complicated order. They knew nothing about LNG, and from what we know, they were working with an incomplete design that kept changing. The shipyard isn't blameless, but the project was clearly way beyond their means. If the intention was to save the shipyard, then the best and most sensible option would have been to go with a standard marine fuel ship that was designed to be switched to all-electric at a later point, rather than messing about with LNG.
As above, it's worth reading the Audit Scotland report into the design/ build process. Ferguson's decided to start building, even though CMAL asked them not to, before the full plans were complete, and before FM had sign off from Lloyds/ MCA over the plans.
This meant that the whole lower bow had to be rebuilt as FM hadn't used the correct materials and led to the delay over emergency staircases much later in the project, both of which the FM CEO at the time acknowledged were their errors.
At one point earlier in the build CMAL wanted the Scottish Govt to scrap what work FM had done and re-award the contract, as it was so late and below standard but the Scottish Govt ministers would not even consider this, presumably as they were aware that the awarding of the contract was dubious in the first place (again covered in the report) and to cancel it would lead to unwelcome scrutiny of this process. FM hadn't hit a single milestone date. FM also, despite having given promises to the contrary, then turned around and said that they couldn't afford the finacial guarantees required, meaning that CMAL had to take on a lot of the commercial and financial risks for late or non-completion. The whole thing was a gigantic mess in reality, as the report makes very clear. Neither the Scottish Govt or FM come out of it at all well, with CMAL stuck somewhere in the middle.
The LNG issue is a bit of a red herring. It wasn't a new propulsion technology for vessels, even when ordered, and the first dual fuel ferries were already in service alongside a decent number of other vessels (now something like 70% of all current hull orders use this or aversion of it). Wartsila, the engine manufacturers were world leaders at this and even offered a service to design and install the whole system, but this didn't happen.
Thanks for that, I'll be reading through that tonight. I'm an SNP supporter and former member, but I absolutely agree with your assessment that they have serious problems with admitting to their mistakes at times.
I am also going to find this a fascinating read, although admit that it might not happen until I have some serious miles to travel in a few weeks. Without wanting to get too far into politics, I would say that the SNP can never admit to their failings readily and when they do, it's after extreme pressure from so many different sides. It does not endear them to people who already mistrust politics and politicians and I'm sure has cost them over the years in one way or another
According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website, the MV " Caledonian Isles " will re-enter service on 12 June 2025 between Ardrossan and Brodick . Full details are on the website.
According to the Caledonian MacBrayne website, the MV " Caledonian Isles " will re-enter service on 12 June 2025 between Ardrossan and Brodick . Full details are on the website.
There are still quite a few things that need to happen - completing the repairs, successful sea trials, safety certification, etc. - but it's very encouraging news. They've also extended the charter of Alfred, so they've got cover if something goes wrong.
There are still quite a few things that need to happen - completing the repairs, successful sea trials, safety certification, etc. - but it's very encouraging news. They've also extended the charter of Alfred, so they've got cover if something goes wrong.
Talks to bring the North Ayrshire port into public ownership appear to have reached a stalemate, campaigners say.
www.bbc.com
Campaigners fear a plan to bring Ardrossan harbour into public ownership to enable a major redevelopment has reached a stalemate.
The North Ayrshire port faces an uncertain future because two new CalMac ferries ordered for the Arran route are too big to fit the existing facilities.
Ministers announced earlier this year they hoped to buy the harbour from its owner Peel Ports so that the long-promised upgrade could finally progress.
The Save Ardrossan Harbour campaign says it has now been told the talks have stalled and an early resolution looks unlikely.
The mess just keeps on going. They're now talking about £80m, which means that Arran has now swallowed up half a billion pounds and counting. CMAL are apparently in no hurry, and I can't help but wonder if they're going to walk away and say that Troon is now the permanent port for Arran once Glen Rosa is launched. ABP desperately want Troon to be used, there's absolutely no prospect of anything else using the port, and Ardrossan could easily be the home to a fast passenger-only service to allow the Glens to become vehicles-only.
People with vehicles aren't going to really be bothered by going to Troon rather than Ardrossan, it's only the foot passengers that suffer with it. But I suspect that a foot passenger-only service from Ardrossan might even be commercially viable.
Talks to bring the North Ayrshire port into public ownership appear to have reached a stalemate, campaigners say.
www.bbc.com
The mess just keeps on going. They're now talking about £80m, which means that Arran has now swallowed up half a billion pounds and counting. CMAL are apparently in no hurry, and I can't help but wonder if they're going to walk away and say that Troon is now the permanent port for Arran once Glen Rosa is launched. ABP desperately want Troon to be used, there's absolutely no prospect of anything else using the port, and Ardrossan could easily be the home to a fast passenger-only service to allow the Glens to become vehicles-only.
People with vehicles aren't going to really be bothered by going to Troon rather than Ardrossan, it's only the foot passengers that suffer with it. But I suspect that a foot passenger-only service from Ardrossan might even be commercially viable.
I don't understand why Peel are drawing the negotiations out really. Surely losing Calmac revenue to Troon permanently would blow a hole in their budget.
Talks to bring the North Ayrshire port into public ownership appear to have reached a stalemate, campaigners say.
www.bbc.com
The mess just keeps on going. They're now talking about £80m, which means that Arran has now swallowed up half a billion pounds and counting. CMAL are apparently in no hurry, and I can't help but wonder if they're going to walk away and say that Troon is now the permanent port for Arran once Glen Rosa is launched. ABP desperately want Troon to be used, there's absolutely no prospect of anything else using the port, and Ardrossan could easily be the home to a fast passenger-only service to allow the Glens to become vehicles-only.
People with vehicles aren't going to really be bothered by going to Troon rather than Ardrossan, it's only the foot passengers that suffer with it. But I suspect that a foot passenger-only service from Ardrossan might even be commercially viable.
However Troon is 4 miles further than Ardrossan (18 miles v 14) from Brodick, which may have an impact on sailing frequencies. So what could potentially end up happening is fewer sailings meaning the same overall capacity issues but sailings that are less convenient as they're less frequent.
tender process under way for two new “freightflex” NorthLink vessels.
Shetland News reports:
Procurement has begun for the much sought after freighter-flex vessels which are hoped to enhance the lifeline ferry service.
Transport secretary Fiona Hyslop announced today (Wednesday) that the tender process was under way for the two new NorthLink vessels.
The freighter-flex vessels will replace the aged Helliar and Hildasay, offering additonal freight capaciuty, quicker crossings and space for up to 200 passengers on board at peak times.
Ms Hyslop confirmed the launch of the procurment process in respose to a parliamenrty question from Highlands and Islands MSP Emma Roddick.
However Troon is 4 miles further than Ardrossan (18 miles v 14) from Brodick, which may have an impact on sailing frequencies. So what could potentially end up happening is fewer sailings meaning the same overall capacity issues but sailings that are less convenient as they're less frequent.
Predictably, comments on social media have been both 'Scotland can't build ships, they should go overseas' and 'Scotland shouldn't buy ships from overseas, they should be built here'.
FWIW the people of Arran are strongly in favour of Ardrossan.
Predictably, comments on social media have been both 'Scotland can't build ships, they should go overseas' and 'Scotland shouldn't buy ships from overseas, they should be built here'.
The announcement of tender for the northlink freight flex is a real positive. The ability to carry up to 200 passengers will help throughout the year during dry Dock and pi tourist demand, indeed, over the winter months it could allow more intensive maintenance work or indeed even short-term tying up of the passenger vessels which could be made to last longer. If their workload was altered. I wonder what sort of design they will go for,
Realistically there's no reason to think it would go to a Scottish yard, but that won't stop people from talking about it.
Ferguson's can't handle ships that size, even with - vanishingly unlikely! - major investment. They looked into it early on in the Jim McColl years, and found there wasn't a feasible option to expand the yard.
The warship yards could easily build something that size, but their cost structures would result in CMAL having to lie down to catch their breath. I suppose Methil is theoretically capable of the steelwork, but not really a contender for everything else that goes into a ferry.
Realistically there's no reason to think it would go to a Scottish yard, but that won't stop people from talking about it.
Ferguson's can't handle ships that size, even with - vanishingly unlikely! - major investment. They looked into it early on in the Jim McColl years, and found there wasn't a feasible option to expand the yard.
The warship yards could easily build something that size, but their cost structures would result in CMAL having to lie down to catch their breath. I suppose Methil is theoretically capable of the steelwork, but not really a contender for everything else that goes into a ferry.
Wonder if stenner will be along in fairly short order with a version of the e-flexor or A more passenger-friendly version of the new freighters they're building for Belfast
Glen Rosa is already behind schedule and £100m over budget
www.telegraph.co.uk
The SNP’s disastrous ferry-replacement programme suffered another blow after a vessel that was already six years behind schedule flooded.
The MV Glen Rosa, which is running £100m over budget, filled with rainwater after the funnels were removed at the nationalised Ferguson Marine shipyard in Port Glasgow.
It is understood that engineers removed the smokestacks to allow the installation of the ferry’s engines, with one of the tarpaulins used to cover the holes created coming loose.
Sudden heavy rainfall subsequently saw water pour into the ship, under construction for ferry operator CalMac, before the exposed exhaust vent could be covered again.
The latest setback comes less than a month after Ferguson Marine said the Glen Rosa would miss its much-revised delivery date of September by up to nine months.
The shipbuilder said it now expected the vessel to be “substantially complete” only in the first quarter of next year, with delivery between April and June.
Ferguson Marine also revealed that the cost of the Glen Rosa had jumped by a further £35m, meaning that it and the Glen Sannox will come in at more than £460m including written-off loans – more than four and a half times the original contract price.
Taking into account the £252m spent on keeping ageing vessels in service to cover for the delays, the overall bill is more than £700m, CalMac has stated.
Just the usual dross from the Unionist press where anything remotely showing it may be a success is already flagged as a disaster. It’s a shame so many are taken in by it!
Just the usual dross from the Unionist press where anything remotely showing it may be a success is already flagged as a disaster. It’s a shame so many are taken in by it!
There is no success to report re 801/2 to be honest (and this latest development certainly isn't one, it's yet another unforced error by FM, just one with little consequence), other than that GS appears to be sailing without issue now.
However given that by the time GR eventually gets into service it'll be 9yrs late and the pair of them will have cost the Scottish taxpayer around £700mn in total once you add in additional maintenance costs for the vessels that they should have replaced (from CalMac's own figures) I'm not really sure there'll be much to cheer about...
There are still quite a few things that need to happen - completing the repairs, successful sea trials, safety certification, etc. - but it's very encouraging news. They've also extended the charter of Alfred, so they've got cover if something goes wrong.
As I feared, Caledonian Isles has failed her sea trials. Fortunately, CalMac are describing the issues as "minor", so hopefully the further delay is measured in days rather than weeks or months.
There's something funny about pentland ferries being so happy to continue rechartering Alfred, when they made a certain amount of noise and fuss about needing a bigger vessel on their own service when she was built
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I'm getting increasingly more intrigued at this renewed charter of Alfred time and time again. When ordered and delivered pentland ferries were extremely keen to get a larger vessel onto their own service. Yet now they seem quite happy for her to be away for a very extended amount of time, are they simply seeing this as the Scottish government paying the costs of the procurement of the new vessel via the back door and a charter agreement? Or were they perhaps dissatisfied with her? And once the charter finally ends they may sell her? Probably a bit off topic for this thread but it's got me wondering And if she were offered for sale would cmal purchase her or is she unsuitable or inflexible for anything other than a couple of runs
As I feared, Caledonian Isles has failed her sea trials. Fortunately, CalMac are describing the issues as "minor", so hopefully the further delay is measured in days rather than weeks or months.
MV Caledonian Isles was initially taken out of service in January last year after routine annual maintenance revealed serious steel corrosion.
Months of major repair work took place in dry dock at Cammell Laird shipyard in Merseyside, requiring removal of the ship's engines.
Upon the ship's return to Scotland in September, a gearbox and propeller fault were detected, and further investigation at Dale's Marine in Greenock revealed the rear of the ship was twisted.
Hardly surprising that after all that her initial sea trials have not been successful, but they seem pretty confident in their current publicity that it will be quickly rectified. This time. Will certainly be good to have her back for the summer season, providing if she's reliable
That's a relief, I had missed the significance of "September." All the same, a twisted ship will have caused misalignment of engines, prop shafts and the end bearing, maybe they were trying to rectify this over the winter. I do hope it's sorted and the isles get a better service from now on.
That's a relief, I had missed the significance of "September." All the same, a twisted ship will have caused misalignment of engines, prop shafts and the end bearing, maybe they were trying to rectify this over the winter. I do hope it's sorted and the isles get a better service from now on.
Hardly surprising that after all that her initial sea trials have not been successful, but they seem pretty confident in their current publicity that it will be quickly rectified. This time. Will certainly be good to have her back for the summer season, providing if she's reliable
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