Can a car beat the sleeper to its destination?

[miami]

If you were heading to Penzance and left after dinner about 8pm from London you'd be there before 3, allowing a good 6 hours sleep before getting up at 9 and starting the day at 10. If you're an early bird stop off at Exeter about midnight in a holiday inn next to j29, then resume the next morning at 7.30, being in Penzance about 9.

If you took the train you'd be twiddling thumbs until midnight then get about 4 hours broken sleep (in my experience) before being ready for the day - sans shower, at a similar time.

Now during the day the train wins - took 8 hours to go Penzance to Manchester yesterday, 3 hours to Exeter. That's as slow as the train, and far less comfortable.

It used to take 5h30 (3h30 to Exeter services, 1h30 to Penzance), 6 with bad traffic.

 

[RepTCTC]

I know from experience the day after such a drive would be painful, if I made it that far. I was thinking that driving out of London would take as much time as a sleeper stops for or am I massively overestimating traffic in London?

Euston to the M25 / M1 junction would be about 40 minutes at that time.

For what it's worth, by way of total journey comparison I used to drive south Surrey <-> west of Glasgow on a regular basis (J10 of the M25, 40 mins from home to J10, 50 mins in the rush), and that took around seven hours outside of the rush*. Leaving Surrey at 7pm on a weeknight lead to a quiet and jam-free run 99% of the time. Cost in diesel ... about £50 each way.


* Read as "avoiding the M25 and M6 from Brum to the Liverpool-Manchester northness in the evening rush".

 

[cb a1]

Based on the fact that when I get on the Sleeper at Euston I will typically have had about 5 or 6 pints of beer ..., then I would probably have arrived in Scotland before I'm sober enough to even start driving from Euston!

 

[miami]

And of course a nightcap on the sleeper. Sadly all this does is prove that trains are bad for your health.

 

[D6975]

If that was the only reason then they could just let the passengers sleep until a decent wakeup time. The main reason they are pathed so slowly is so that they can take alternative routes during engineering works and still arrive at or close to booked times.

And they are 80mph max, for passenger comfort. They are capable of 100mph (with a 90), but limited to 80 to give pax a better chance of getting a decent night's kip. I believe late running sleepers do sometimes run at over 80 once they get to the point where everyone's probably awake.

 

[Greenback]

If you were heading to Penzance and left after dinner about 8pm from London you'd be there before 3

Assuming you don;t fall asleep at the wheel! You might be fine for driving in the early hours, not everyone is, and it might also depend on what sort of day the driver has had.

If you're an early bird stop off at Exeter about midnight in a holiday inn next to j29, then resume the next morning at 7.30, being in Penzance about 9.

Or why not leave a bit earlier, and stop for a meal and a comfortable sleep overnight before continuing on the next morning?

If you took the train you'd be twiddling thumbs until midnight then get about 4 hours broken sleep (in my experience) before being ready for the day - sans shower, at a similar time.

It all depends on the circumstances of the journey, and your plans for the two days, doesn't it?

 

[miami]

Assuming you don;t fall asleep at the wheel! You might be fine for driving in the early hours, not everyone is, and it might also depend on what sort of day the driver has had.

Or why not leave a bit earlier, and stop for a meal and a comfortable sleep overnight before continuing on the next morning?

Because getting up at 7AM is doable, just about. Earlier than that is ridiculous.

It all depends on the circumstances of the journey, and your plans for the two days, doesn't it?

Depends how well you get off to sleep. I get a far better sleep on a plane than on a sleeper, despite having a whole room on a sleeper - too much noise and banging, so on the Penzance run I rarely fell asleep before 2AM in either direction.

 

[najaB]

Depends how well you get off to sleep. I get a far better sleep on a plane than on a sleeper, despite having a whole room on a sleeper - too much noise and banging, so on the Penzance run I rarely fell asleep before 2AM in either direction.

I'm the opposite - normally sleep way better on the train than in a plane, often even better than in my own bed for that matter!

 

[Bald Rick]

The car will beat the train, but the car driver wont be in a fit state to do anything the day after, the train passenger will be as bright as a button.

Its all well and good getting there quicker but one advantage of catching the train is you can relax/sleep and enjoy the journey.

I respectfully disagree. I have done dozens of sleepers, in this country and around the world, and not once have I been remotely close to being 'as bright as a button' the day after. In several instances I have got off the sleeper at destination and then checked straight in to a hotel (or campsite) and gone to bed.

I'm not doubting that an all nighter on the road is tiring, it clearly is. However given a choice of a 6/7 hour drive, leaving say 9pm, and a few hours kip in a hotel the other end, or a sleeper, I would always be more refreshed the morning after the former.

 

[al78]

Because getting up at 7AM is doable, just about. Earlier than that is ridiculous.

Depends on whether you are a morning or evening person. I hate early starts but other people manage to get up at 6 am or earlier to earn a living. Some people on this forum must have to get up at near sunrise in June to get to work on time.

If I was doing a long drive I would find it much easier to start late evening and arrive at 2-3am than get up at 5am to set off early morning. In the former case the fatigue only starts to kick in when I am close to the end of the journey, whereas in the latter case the fatigue is with me for the entire journey.

 

[Greenback]

Because getting up at 7AM is doable, just about. Earlier than that is ridiculous.

I meant leave London earlier and stop for a bite to eat before places stop serving food. I agree that 0700 is a reasonable time to continue for this particular, but for other journeys it could be far from ridiculous as an option.

Depends how well you get off to sleep. I get a far better sleep on a plane than on a sleeper, despite having a whole room on a sleeper - too much noise and banging, so on the Penzance run I rarely fell asleep before 2AM in either direction.

I can sleep on either, but I think that I do tend to sleep better on a sleeper, if only because I'm lying down. If I'm sitting up in a seat, the two tend to be fairly equal, and the noise form other passengers is the most likely thing to disturb me.

As usual in these type of threads the fact is that choice of transport will depend on many factors, not just speed.

 

[DarloRich]

I find ear plugs to be very helpful on both the plane and the sleeper!

 

[co-tr-paul]

Then there os the wee problem.... !

 

[miami]

I find ear plugs to be very helpful on both the plane and the sleeper!

On a plane I take off shoes, put the seat flat, put on my noise cancelling headphones, and listen to Legally Blonde the musical on repeat (It's strange, but I seemed to have trained my brain to fall asleep when I hear it). I have to sleep on my back because of the headphones but I can't deal with things in my ears.

 

[najaB]

On a plane I take off shoes, put the seat flat...

At least you are well-off enough (or have a generous-enough employer) to get a seat that goes flat. Back in my world... *jealous*

 

[miami]

At least you are well-off enough (or have a generous-enough employer) to get a seat that goes flat. Back in my world... *jealous*

Actual policy is economy or premium economy, however by using more of my own time up and flying via the middle east, it turns out flying Qatar in business can be far cheaper than BA or Singapore or Virgin in economy, let alone premium economy.

When travelling for pleasure of course I wouldn't dream of anything further back than Business.

 

[paul1609]

I respectfully disagree. I have done dozens of sleepers, in this country and around the world, and not once have I been remotely close to being 'as bright as a button' the day after. In several instances I have got off the sleeper at destination and then checked straight in to a hotel (or campsite) and gone to bed.

I'm not doubting that an all nighter on the road is tiring, it clearly is. However given a choice of a 6/7 hour drive, leaving say 9pm, and a few hours kip in a hotel the other end, or a sleeper, I would always be more refreshed the morning after the former.

I'd agree, but the best option for Cornwall would be night in home bed, fly Gatwick to Newquay, hire car, evening flight back to Gatwick.
Sleepers are for train spotters (includes me- thats how I know!) and sentimentals the only businessman I can see using any of the UK sleepers is somebody that has a phobia against flying.

 

[EM2]

Why would anyone want to drive for hours through the night rather than sleep in a train or at a hotel? My father did it once and declared it to be horrific.

There's more to it than speed or journey time.

I love driving at night, but always factor in rest breaks.
A couple of years ago, I left Whitstable at 4pm on a Saturday (having awoken at 9am), went M2/M26/M25/M40/M6/M56/A55 to Holyhead.
Once I was on the M40, it was pretty much empty, so popped the cruise control on at 65mph, and it was great. A few hours snooze on the ferry, and then another two hours or so the other side.

 

[route:oxford]

Sleepers are for train spotters (includes me- thats how I know!) and sentimentals the only businessman I can see using any of the UK sleepers is somebody that has a phobia against flying.

That pretty much covers my old boss - he was terrified of flying. He used to be a regular on the Euston to Edinburgh sleeper.

Latterly he found queueing for showers and having to kill time in Edinburgh at 7am a chore. He started taking the last train to Edinburgh instead and stay over in a hotel.

 

[co-tr-paul]

the only businessman I can see using any of the UK sleepers is somebody that has a phobia against flying.

Most customers on a Fri down and sun up are regulars and train nearly fully booked hence extra coach those nights for non regulars. 80 beds.

 

[miami]

Most customers on a Fri down and sun up are regulars and train nearly fully booked hence extra coach those nights for non regulars. 80 beds.

Meanwhile there are 15 flights on a friday evening from London to Scotland after the last day trains to Edinburgh/Glasgow have left, somewhere in the region of 1500 seats.

 

[90019]

Why would anyone want to drive for hours through the night rather than sleep in a train or at a hotel?

Given the choice, I'd always choose to drive through the night, and have done so many times - I like driving in the dark and the lack of traffic late at night makes for a smoother and much more pleasant journey. It can also be easier to hypermile at night, in my experience.
I tend to have an audiobook to listen to - I've been working my way through the James Bond books recenty - though I do switch to music or radio programmes (usually old comedies) for some of the journey, too. I'll also take plenty to drink, and often have something to snack on, if need be.

Give me the right car (preferably a Volvo, with cruise control) and I can happily do a 10 hour drive with no stops, and feel fine at the other end.

 

[SussexMan]

I'll also take plenty to drink, and often have something to snack on, if need be.

Give me the right car (preferably a Volvo, with cruise control) and I can happily do a 12 hour drive with no stops, and feel fine at the other end.

Not quite sure how "plenty to drink" and the "12 hour drive with no stops" go together. Personally I'd want to avoid sharing the roads with someone who thinks it's OK to drive for 12 hours without stopping. And if you are averaging 60mph, that's 720 miles.

 

[trainmania100]

If the sleeper was operated by southern railway then yes a car would beat it
However today, the sleeper I'd say would win due to the sheer amount of traffic on the roads and reckless mainiac drivers around causing chrashes and james

 

[Essexman]

the only businessman I can see using any of the UK sleepers is somebody that has a phobia against flying.

I disagree.
I use the sleepers regularly for business and find that they are the most efficient use of time. They allow a full day for meetings without having to get up at 4am to fly.
A reasonable proportion of those travelling are using the sleepers for business - and I doubt they are all scared of flying.

 

[DarloRich]

I disagree.
I use the sleepers regularly for business and find that they are the most efficient use of time. They allow a full day for meetings without having to get up at 4am to fly.
A reasonable proportion of those travelling are using the sleepers for business - and I doubt they are all scared of flying.

that is the key for me, getting a full day in work before travel - use of the Scotland sleeper essentially gives me two extra days holiday when visiting the parents.

 

[work-traveller]

I disagree.
I use the sleepers regularly for business and find that they are the most efficient use of time. They allow a full day for meetings without having to get up at 4am to fly.
A reasonable proportion of those travelling are using the sleepers for business - and I doubt they are all scared of flying.

Quite agree. I and colleagues have used the sleeper to arrive for early meetings whilst avoiding getting up at an ungodly hour for the red-eye flight from Edinburgh to City.

 

[rf_ioliver]

Penzance - 5h 09m
Glasgow - 6h 35m
Edinburgh - 7h 01m
Fort William - 8h 49m
Aberdeen - 8h 50m

Using Here maps I get: (station-station)

Paddington-Penzance: 500km, 5h35 via A30/M4
Euston-Glasgow: 661km, 7h24 via M6/M40
Euston-Edinburgh: 636km, 7h39 via A1/A1(M)
Euston-Fort William: 828km, 9h32 via M6/A82
Euston-Aberdeen: 874km, 9h43 via M6/M40

These are driving times not including stops (Here Maps takes into account known roadworks).

However, as a few have pointed out, after driving 500+km, potentially over night, you'd need a day off afterwards. Plus time driving is time not spent working if you're travelling for business.

Flying of course might be faster in many cases but there's the small issue of airport parking/public transport, security (100ml of anything = safe, 101ml = dangerous...) and the joys of economy seating

I used to use the sleeper trains here in Finland for getting back and forth Helsinki and Oulu. Quite comfortable and the new trains have showers. The only problem is a 6am arrival into Oulu which is a bit inconvenient. There used to be a nice 12h journey via Kuopio which allowed something to eat, a beer and a good nights sleep (<- important!)

t.

Ian

 

[miami]

Flying of course might be faster in many cases but there's the small issue of airport parking/public transport

Same as with the train. In both cases you need to get to a location, which will likely be taxi. Parking at airports is fairly easy

and the joys of economy seating

Far rather spend 4 hours on a plane in economy than 4 hours on a pendilino in standard. A fairer comparison would be 1 hour on the plane and 4 hours on the pendilino.

Where a day of meetings in London for someone living say 10 miles from Aberdeen will involve an early start, A 6AM taxi, arrive airport 6.20, take off 7am, land 9AM, in office for 9.45, meetings from 10-6, back to airport for 18.30, 19.30 flight to Aberdeen, arriving 21.20, in taxi by 21.30 and home by 10pm.

On the train this would involve 2 overnight train journeys. I know which I'd prefer.

If you had to be in London for say 8AM, a flight the night before leaving home at 1930 to get the 2030 flight, arrive London 2200 and hotel next to office, in a proper bed by 2300, wake the next morning at 0700 after 8 hours solid sleep, quick shower and breakfast at 0720 before getting to office at 0750. Return as above, so still only 1 night away.

On the train it's leave home at 17:40, arrive station 1810 for the 1818 train to Edinburgh and onto the sleeper there (the direct sleeper doesn't get in early enough for an 8AM meeting). Alternatively it's a 1500 departure to get the Dundee train, then the Edinburgh train, then the last train from Edinburgh arriving Kings Cross at 01:03 and in bed by 2AM.

 

[90019]

Not quite sure how "plenty to drink" and the "12 hour drive with no stops" go together. Personally I'd want to avoid sharing the roads with someone who thinks it's OK to drive for 12 hours without stopping. And if you are averaging 60mph, that's 720 miles.

Sorry, that was supposed to say 10, not 12.

I can easily go 10-12 hours without needing to use the toilet, and do so regularly.
I've done a couple of 10 hour drives, one non stop, the other with a 10 minute break to use the loo and make a phone call. They were both a mixture of motorway, A roads and B roads.
I used to regularly do a 7 hour drive non stop every couple of weeks, and currently do the 5-5.5 hour drive to Hull then back to Edinburgh every 3 weeks or so, usually non stop.

Thing is, though, driving is my life - I spend my working day driving buses, then on my days off I go and drive my cars around. For me, long journeys have never been an issue.