Can I take a motorcycle on a train?

[Robnw67]

Hi. Possibly an obscure question (and I didn't really know which forum to post in) but can I take my motorcycle on a train journey? I have an electric motorcycle (Super Soco TC1500) with a limited range of about 50 miles. My parents live 100 miles away and obviously I can't get to their house using the motorcycle on its own. I start off in Preston and need to get near Cannock, Rugeley, Stafford or Lichfield. From any of those places I would have a 10 to 15 mile journey to get to my parents.

For context, if I were able to do this, I could get rid of my car completely so would be very advantageous. My parents are both nearly 78 and I can't expect them to be picking me up all the time. They live quite rurally and so buses and taxis either don't serve the area late into the evening or just plain don't want to go there.

I'm pretty sure in the 1980's, motorcycles could travel on a train but I suspect that would be a very different tale now.

 

[221129]

No. Is the answer.

 

[OldNick]

Hi. Possibly an obscure question (and I didn't really know which forum to post in) but can I take my motorcycle on a train journey? I have an electric motorcycle (Super Soco TC1500) with a limited range of about 50 miles.

I'm pretty sure in the 1980's, motorcycles could travel on a train but I suspect that would be a very different tale now.

From the National Rail Conditions of travel:

23.6. Items that are not permitted to be carried on passenger trains:
Item
Motorcycles; mopeds; motor scooters

 

[Robnw67]

Haha - well that answers that question! Thanks both for the replies.

 

[pdeaves]

OldNick gives the official answer. The rules were written I suspect with a thought to fuel. We now have a huge grey area with e-bikes and electric motor bikes - where are the boundaries? I think the rules could usefully be reconsidered and amended as necessary, but I don't see any change in suitable time to visit your parents!

 

[Watershed]

Hi. Possibly an obscure question (and I didn't really know which forum to post in) but can I take my motorcycle on a train journey? I have an electric motorcycle (Super Soco TC1500) with a limited range of about 50 miles. My parents live 100 miles away and obviously I can't get to their house using the motorcycle on its own. I start off in Preston and need to get near Cannock, Rugeley, Stafford or Lichfield. From any of those places I would have a 10 to 15 mile journey to get to my parents.

For context, if I were able to do this, I could get rid of my car completely so would be very advantageous. My parents are both nearly 78 and I can't expect them to be picking me up all the time. They live quite rurally and so buses and taxis either don't serve the area late into the evening or just plain don't want to go there.

I'm pretty sure in the 1980's, motorcycles could travel on a train but I suspect that would be a very different tale now.

You can take a pedal or electric cycle, but that's about it.

 

[mike57]

Just to clarify, when does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle/moped. The boundaries are a lot more blurred now

I suspect the reality is that if it looks like a bike it will be permitted, but if it looks like a motorcycle then no. I saw a regular commuter pre covid taking an electric bike which he claimed had a 30-40 mile range, but apart from a massivley 'thickened' down bar, looked like a bike. I saw him set off from the station a few times and it certainley had a fair turn of speed

 

[221129]

Just to clarify, when does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle/moped.

Does it have pedals? Yes? Allowed. No? Not allowed. As a general rule.

 

[dk1]

Didn’t it change in the mid 1980s? I had a motorbike at the time & had ridden it Yarmouth-Norwich but was so cold & didn’t want to ride the darn thing back. The guard said they are not allowed now but as you’re staff stick it in the brake van & I’ll pretend I didn’t see it. Luckily then the first gen dmus where still about so this was possible.

 

[Nottingham59]

To qualify as an "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle" (EAPC) the rules are:

What counts as an EAPC​

An EAPC must have pedals that can be used to propel it. ....

• The motor must have a maximum power output of 250 watts
• should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph

An EAPC can have more than 2 wheels (for example, a tricycle).

from https://www.gov.uk/electric-bike-rules

An EAPC seems to be the answer - a good one will do 10 -15 miles easy.
Looking at pictures of your Super Soco TC1500, I'm sure you would never be allowed to take that on a train.

 

[TheSeeker]

Just to clarify, when does an electric bike become an electric motorcycle/moped. The boundaries are a lot more blurred now

I think the EU limit is on kW power to provide a maximum speed of 25 km/h. After that it will need registration, a number plate and insurance.

There's a great video on youtube of a group of friends heading to southern Italy on scooters using the train for the longest part of the journey. I guess it's from the late nineties, they ride up a ramp straight into the guards van.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Looking at pictures of your Super Soco TC1500, I'm sure you would never be allowed to take that on a train.

Inclined to agree!

 

[Nottingham59]

If you go down the EAPC route, try to have a look at the bike storage area on a Pendolino, which are the type of train that run from Preston to Stafford. I understand the space it quite limited, so some ebikes might not fit, especially if they have fat wheels etc.

From 2022, Avanti West Coast will be introducing new trains (Class 805 and 807) on that route. Other people may be able to say how much space there is in the bike storage area on these trains.

 

[Bill EWS]

I took my motorbike(s) on the train throughout the 70's up to 1982. I never had any problems. My first bike was a Lambretta followed by two Suzuki's. You had to keep the tank quite low with just enough to get you to a garage on arrival. The bike was tied up to the window bars with those hooked ends elastic straps, as firmly as possible the steering locked up at an angle. Only the once I had a bit of a wait for a garage to open to start my day's run when arriving at Inverness quite early. Train guards and platform staff were always pleasant and helpful getting the bike on and off the trains. Initially the cost for the bike was very reasonable but kept getting dearer and dearer until it became restrictive. I think this was because health and safety came into play and by 1982 it became rather expensive. I think too by that time restrictions were starting to come in when HST's came about due to safety worries and BR didn't want motor bikes on high speed trains. I look back on those times as very enjoyable as I was able to take my motor bikes as far as Oban, Fort William and Mallaig. Inverness, Kyle of Lochalsh and Wick and also Aberdeen without having to drive those distances to start with or on return. Other places I have got onto trains when returning home on different outings are Tulloch and Crianlarich and once motorbiking up to Carlisle and taking the sleeper up to Inverness.

 

[Darandio]

Does it have pedals? Yes? Allowed. No? Not allowed. As a general rule.

So it's fine to take a pedal and pop on a train then?

 

[Non Multi]

So it's fine to take a pedal and pop on a train then?

That would permit vintage mobylettes on board if that was the case.

 

[Paul Dancey]

When I look back, I'm amazed that in the late 1970's, when I changed jobs, I was able to ship my motorbike by train from Bangor, North Wales, to Bristol Temple Meads. Especially as I believe that involved a change at Crewe. If I remember correctly there was a limit on the amount of fuel allowed in the tank, but it was enough to get me to a garage to fill up. It was in the middle of Winter and North Wales was snow bound at the time, which was why I didn't fancy my chances by road. But of course that was in the days of loco hauled stock, and I suspect less stringent health and safety regs.

 

[E759]

I think the EU limit is on kW power to provide a maximum speed of 25 km/h. After that it will need registration, a number plate and insurance.

There's a great video on youtube of a group of friends heading to southern Italy on scooters using the train for the longest part of the journey. I guess it's from the late nineties, they ride up a ramp straight into the guards van.

EU legislation is EN15194 and is motor assistance to 25 km/h and motor power not exceeding 250 w. UK legislation remains harmonised with EU EN15194 despite BREXIT.

 

[unlevel42]

In January 1974 on a I was riding my original BSA Bantam 125 from Bristol to Bangor and it died in Ludlow. The guard allowed me on the train and organised a place on the boat train from Crewe. I had to empty the tank.

 

[TheSeeker]

Is there a market for the return of some form of MotorRail in the UK? I guess not. I've been to the UK for scooter events a couple of times. The Zeebrugge-Hull ferry removes all the slog of riding the boring bits. In June it was packed with bikers from all over northern Europe heading off to tour northern parts of the UK. Sometimes I was wishing the EuroTunnel trains would just keep going after Folkestone.

Having ridden my Vespa from Wales to Brussels and driven from Belgium to Portugal for our annual summer holiday most years I would have gladly paid to transport the car through France and Spain (they're much bigger than you think!). In fact family from Portugal who live in Luxembourg often have their cars transported down by lorry and then fly themselves. Just to have their car with them for the holiday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Is there a market for the return of some form of MotorRail in the UK? I guess not.

The thing is, for more or less everyone except car/motorbike enthusiasts, integration of car hire with rail travel is a better way to solve the problem.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Doesn't seem as if anyone has actually managed to load a "motorcycle" on a GB train for the best part of 40 years now.

 

[peters]

To qualify as an "Electrically Assisted Pedal Cycle" (EAPC) the rules are:

• should not be able to propel the bike when it’s travelling more than 15.5mph

Those are really the important points. With an e-bike the motor is not there to make the bike go faster but to reduce the amount of physical effort required, making hill climbing easier and allowing cyclists to go further than they would be capable of going on a normal bike. People who have no cycling experience should not be learning on an e-bike and those with previous cycling experience don't need special training to be allowed to ride one.

 

[Non Multi]

Maybe FGW missed a trick by failing to market their motorail service to the summer motorbike touring market. Load up in Paddington, Slough, Reading and Newbury and spend a week or two touring the West Country.

Ask the various motorbike clubs to arrange group rides and travel down as a group, and hey presto fully loaded motorail wagons.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Maybe FGW missed a trick by failing to market their motorail service to the summer motorbike touring market. Load up in Paddington, Slough, Reading and Newbury and spend a week or two touring the West Country.

City Night Line used to be popular for transporting Motorbikes between North Germany and the alps

 

[83A]

I have a BMW GS 1200, I think that has enough torque to pull a train

 

[83A]

EU legislation is EN15194 and is motor assistance to 25 km/h and motor power not exceeding 250 w. UK legislation remains harmonised with EU EN15194 despite BREXIT.

Interesting side point, you can "derestrict” an ebike by fooling the speed sensor into thinking it never gets to 25km/h. This doesn’t give you anymore watts but means the pedal assist keeps going until you reach the limit of the bike’s gearing and your leg movement.


This is illegal (unless on private land) if you have a crash and they find out you could be in trouble. Apparently in France the fine can be 30000 euros!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting side point, you can "derestrict” an ebike by fooling the speed sensor into thinking it never gets to 25km/h. This doesn’t give you anymore watts but means the pedal assist keeps going until you reach the limit of the bike’s gearing and your leg movement.


This is illegal (unless on private land) if you have a crash and they find out you could be in trouble. Apparently in France the fine can be 30000 euros!

It's a Construction and Use offence in the UK, which can mean you get points on your driving licence even if you don't yet have a driving entitlement!

 

[Nottingham59]

It's a Construction and Use offence in the UK

It's also an offence of riding a motorcycle without insurance or a helmet.

 

[E759]

Interesting side point, you can "derestrict” an ebike by fooling the speed sensor into thinking it never gets to 25km/h. This doesn’t give you anymore watts but means the pedal assist keeps going until you reach the limit of the bike’s gearing and your leg movement.


This is illegal (unless on private land) if you have a crash and they find out you could be in trouble. Apparently in France the fine can be 30000 euros!

Indeed and there are both electronic and mechanical versions. The mechanical version is ingenious using gears to rotate the speed sensor magnet at a different speed to the wheel. Very expensive and difficult to comprehend their use given limitations in battery power.