Can some of the stations between Selby and Hull be closed?

[HST43257]

Looking at some of the places along the line from Selby to Hull, they look horrendously unpopulated. I’m aware that usage of some are terribly low as well. My question is, with NPR and other express services about, can the stations of these smaller places survive?

The stations I’m really looking at are Wressle and Broomfleet. They’re on the massively upgradeable main route to York and Leeds from Hull. When I say massively upgradeable, I’m referring to how straight the route is. Surely this opens up the possibility of a 125mph plus electrification upgrade. However, if this happened, capacity for stopping services may be more limited. All of the rest of the stations are for areas with populations of over 1,000. You could argue that Eastrington (with a population of 1,200 or thereabouts) should also close, though I’m not sure about that one.

Thoughts would be appreciated please.

 

[DB]

The smaller stations only have a limited service anyway - can't see what would be gained by shutting any of them.

There really is no need for a 125mph mainline to Hull - it's literally the end of the line, and there isn't a huge amount of commuting in either direction.

 

[HST43257]

The smaller stations only have a limited service anyway - can't see what would be gained by shutting any of them.

There really is no need for a 125mph mainline to Hull - it's literally the end of the line, and there isn't a huge amount of commuting in either direction.

First of all, the limited smaller station stops still take paths away, though these stations aren‘t heavily used. Is it really worth sacrificing some paths in crucial hours just to serve around 5 people a day?

With the 125mph, I think that there’s an opportunity to increase speeds, certainly between Selby and Brough. Perhaps that speed is too much but there is potential on that route in my view.

 

[DB]

First of all, the limited smaller station stops still take paths away, though these stations aren‘t heavily used. Is it really worth sacrificing some paths in crucial hours just to serve around 5 people a day?

With the 125mph, I think that there’s an opportunity to increase speeds, certainly between Selby and Brough. Perhaps that speed is too much but there is potential on that route in my view.

It's not a busy line - stopping at those stations is not getting in the way of anything else.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why bother closing stations? Please lets think long term for a change.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Definitely worth keeping Hessle, Ferriby, Brough (hardly in doubt).

Broomfleet realistically is doing nothing with it’s 2 passengers a day; Gilberdyke obviously fine.

Howden and Eastrington should basically be combined into one, possibly on the A614. Better parking, etc.

Wressle would probably end up better used by outlying villages if there was decent parking!

On the side west of Selby, you definitely need to massively increase the scope and size of South Milford. That’s a very useful pen-knife for Leeds, Selby (etc.).

 

[yorksrob]

It's already a pretty good service on the route for the population served.

I wouldn't close any of the stations. Actually, I'd make more use of the new Northern Leeds - Hull service to bring better links between Howden (and maybe some other deserving place along the route) and Leeds, rather than just duplicating the TPE.

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

'Harsh-named halts that shield
Workmen at dawn'
(Philip Larkin)
No, they certainly should be kept open!

 

[Ianno87]

Why bother closing stations? Please lets think long term for a change.

Trying (and failing) to think of historically lightly used stations anywhere that have significantly resurged in usage. Manea and Whittelsea spring to mind, due to having a two-hourly service introduced in 2013.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Trying (and failing) to think of historically lightly used stations anywhere that have significantly resurged in usage. Manea and Whittelsea spring to mind, due to having a two-hourly service introduced in 2013.

Any with tourist potential might. These ones (which are not dissimilar to Hoscar, New Lane and Bescar Lane) probably not.

 

[daodao]

Any with tourist potential might. These ones (which are not dissimilar to Hoscar, New Lane and Bescar Lane) probably not.

Styal - 679 in 1997-8 compared to 13,980 in 2018-9.

 

[Purple Orange]

I’m intrigued as to how this idea plays with ‘levelling up’. Hull seems to be one of those places, like the Blackburn’s, Burnley’s and Rotherham’s of this world where the ‘levelling up’ agenda seems to fit. This boils down to a question of what does Hull, Selby and the communities that exist in between need the most? Faster services to London, Manchester and Liverpool? Or more frequent services to Leeds & York? Station usage might be low because there is a crap service to begin with. Improve the offering and people may make the switch from car to train perhaps.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Styal - 679 in 1997-8 compared to 13,980 in 2018-9.

Styal is one with tourist potential - you have Quarry Bank Mill nearby plus nice countryside walks down the river. It's a bit like Strines in that regard.

 

[DB]

Or more frequent services to Leeds & York? Station usage might be low because there is a crap service to begin with. Improve the offering and people may make the switch from car to train perhaps.

Yes, I think that's true - the services between Hull and York in particular is not great.

 

[Ben Bow]

.....

With the 125mph, I think that there’s an opportunity to increase speeds, certainly between Selby and Brough. Perhaps that speed is too much but there is potential on that route in my view.

When Howden to Ferriby was resignalled the intention was to increase the line speed generally, and in places to 100mph (currently 75, or 90 for sprinters). However the cost of modifying the level crossings for higher speeds, especially the AHB's, was deemed too expensive in relation to the time saved.

 

[Purple Orange]

Styal is one with tourist potential - you have Quarry Bank Mill nearby plus nice countryside walks down the river. It's a bit like Strines in that regard.

Styal will (maybe, perhaps) be getting tram-train between the airport & Wilmslow, which would be 5 tph in all likelihood. For local residents on that stop it will be more of a shuttle service to the town centre (big tick) or to the airport station for a fast connections to Manchester, London, Scotland, rest of the north etc. It’s a pretty place and if it has a 5 tph shuttle, I’d certainly consider moving there!

 

[Western Lord]

Looking at some of the places along the line from Selby to Hull, they look horrendously unpopulated. I’m aware that usage of some are terribly low as well. My question is, with NPR and other express services about, can the stations of these smaller places survive?

The stations I’m really looking at are Wressle and Broomfleet. They’re on the massively upgradeable main route to York and Leeds from Hull. When I say massively upgradeable, I’m referring to how straight the route is. Surely this opens up the possibility of a 125mph plus electrification upgrade. However, if this happened, capacity for stopping services may be more limited. All of the rest of the stations are for areas with populations of over 1,000. You could argue that Eastrington (with a population of 1,200 or thereabouts) should also close, though I’m not sure about that one.

Thoughts would be appreciated please.

The reason that the line is straight is that it runs through flat countryside. This means loads of level crossings (20 odd between Selby and Brough), not really compatible with a 125mph railway.

 

[Halifaxlad]

There really is no need for a 125mph mainline to Hull - it's literally the end of the line, and there isn't a huge amount of commuting in either direction.

Maybe if it operated at high speed then they may be more commuting ?

The reason that the line is straight is that it runs through flat countryside. This means loads of level crossings (20 odd between Selby and Brough), not really compatible with a 125mph railway.

In a presentation not so long ago Tim Wood, director of NPR did hit upon how straight this line was and the number of crossings. From what he was saying it looks like Transport for the North may have aspirations to remove most if not all of these crossings.

 

[JKF]

I travelled on this line a lot for work in the early 2000s. 1hr Leeds-Hull didn’t seem that bad a time for the distance.

At the time I remember they were removing an extra track, somewhere towards the Hull end. Was the line originally quadrupled or tripled and could that provide capacity for stopping services? I think this was from Brough onwards or possibly from the junction with the Goole line, or may have just been a long goods loop somewhere around the old smelter site and my memory is muddled!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

The line runs through the suburbs of Hull, surely new stations are possible

 

[Halifaxlad]

If you wanted a faster line between Leeds & Hull you may be better reopening or rather rebuilding the the line from Selby to Market Weighton and constructing a brand new line around MW to Beverley, that could easily follow the aligment of the A614. Due to that Selby to Market Weighton was as straight as the line from Selby to Brough I reckon with no crossings, you could easily get up to 140 mph.

Before anyone comments along the lines of 'you don't need that speed' don't forget NPR is aiming at reducing journey times across from Hull to Liverpool in the same way TRU is being progressed, improving bits of line as opposed to trying to raise the speed of the whole line from end to end!

Owning to my crayonist tendencies I also drawn a map to make it easier to visualize.

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[DB]

Maybe if it operated at high speed then they may be more commuting ?

You need to consider the type of place it is - Hull is a fairly self-contained city, and there isn't a huge amout of longer-distance commuting by any means, and faster train services are unlikely to change that. It is also expensive to get to any of the nearest cities (York and Leeds), so only viable with reasonably well-paid jobs.

 

[yorksrob]

Hull does have some excellent pubs, which are a draw in their own right.

Probably not quite enough to justify upgrading the line though !

 

[NoMorePacers]

The only stations between Selby and Hull that might be worthy of a closure consideration are Broomfleet, Eastrington and Wressle - the others are reasonably patronised and in my opinion don't warrant a more permanent service reduction from their current levels. However, perhaps considering other options for the aforementioned 3 before outright closure - such as dropping them down to request stops - should be done if there is a will to reduce their service level.