Capacity Constraints on South Western Railway

[MatthewRead]

The class 701 thread keeps mentioning a reduction in capacity due to withdrawals of rolling stock without any replacement.
Given the 701's aren't entering service anytime soon could the 456's not be reinstated to provide additional capacity along with the 5 remaining 442's otherwise if the 707's all go before the 701's are in service what other useful rolling stock is there. the Class 465/466's are not cleared for any of those routes, 350/2 conversion to third rail is to expensive and I don't think SWR will take on any of the redundant Southern 455's or 313's. I have been warned that 444's,158's and 159's may have to be used on some metro services due to a chronic shortage of rolling stock which in turn will create capacity constraints on the mainline network what can be done?

 

[43096]

The class 701 thread keeps mentioning a reduction in capacity due to withdrawals of rolling stock without any replacement.
Given the 701's aren't entering service anytime soon could the 456's not be reinstated to provide additional capacity along with the 5 remaining 442's otherwise if the 707's all go before the 701's are in service what other useful rolling stock is there. the Class 465/466's are not cleared for any of those routes, 350/2 conversion to third rail is to expensive and I don't think SWR will take on any of the redundant Southern 455's or 313's. I have been warned that 444's,158's and 159's may have to be used on some metro services due to a chronic shortage of rolling stock which in turn will create capacity constraints on the mainline network what can be done?

442s coming back is not going to happen, for the simple reason that all the motor coaches (except perhaps one?) have been scrapped. Get over it. They're gone.

 

[Energy]

442s coming back is not going to happen, for the simple reason that all the motor coaches (except perhaps one?) have been scrapped. Get over it. They're gone.

They also have had problems with the signals for a while which were never fixed before they started scrapping.

If SWR need more stock then there are other options which are more likely, 350/1s could probably be used without too much difficulty with there similarity to the 450s.

 

[swt_passenger]

442s coming back is not going to happen, for the simple reason that all the motor coaches (except perhaps one?) have been scrapped. Get over it. They're gone.

I wonder where any evidence for “5 remaining 442s” even came from?

 

[43096]

I wonder where any evidence for “5 remaining 442s” even came from?

I suspect it's the ones sat at Eastleigh that are being referred to. They won't get far without the motor coaches! In fact, they wouldn't get far with the motor coaches.

 

[JonathanH]

could the 456's not be reinstated to provide additional capacity

Some of the 456s have been scrapped as well with others no doubt at various stages of component recovery.

I have been warned that 444's,158's and 159's may have to be used on some metro services due to a chronic shortage of rolling stock which in turn will create capacity constraints on the mainline network what can be done?

It is unlikely that any of those units will be used on London metro services.

Why is it that someone 'warns' you of this in any case?

 

[43096]

Some of the 456s have been scrapped as well with others no doubt at various stages of component recovery.


It is unlikely that any of those units will be used on London metro services.

Why is it that someone 'warns' you of this in any case?

What would happen is a 158 would go back on the Lymington shuttle to release a 450 for metro work and 444s would be subbed for 450s to allow them to go to the metro area. I'm afraid I really can't take anything the OP says seriously - I rather suspect some people at SWR are having a laugh at his expense.

 

[MatthewRead]

442s coming back is not going to happen, for the simple reason that all the motor coaches (except perhaps one?) have been scrapped. Get over it. They're gone.

WNXX had previously told me that they were going to be brought back until there was sufficient stock available.

 

[43096]

WNXX had previously told me that they were going to be brought back until there was sufficient stock available.

They were pulling your leg.

 

[JonathanH]

WNXX had previously told me that they were going to be brought back until there was sufficient stock available.

I doubt that.

What would happen is a 158 would go back on the Lymington shuttle to release a 450 for metro work and 444s would be subbed for 450s to allow them to go to the metro area.

Yes, but that possible outcome isn't what the OP stated.

I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of the original posting is. SWR have to deal with their stock shortages using existing stock. As we have seen, this may involve keeping some 455s going that were due to be released but that is about it.

 

[fgwrich]

442s coming back is not going to happen, for the simple reason that all the motor coaches (except perhaps one?) have been scrapped. Get over it. They're gone.

All gone. 2412 is a 4 car set of unpowered vehicles.

 

[yorksrob]

Sounds like a reprieve for the 455's is in order.

 

[gmaguire]

Personally I’d like to see some 465s and 466s on the southwestern, however unlikely it may be.

 

[Cowley]

I think it would be good
we stuck to more serious suggestions from this point…

 

[MatthewRead]

Personally I’d like to see some 465s and 466s on the southwestern, however unlikely it may be.

They're not cleared for most of the SWR network.

 

[gmaguire]

They're not cleared for most of the SWR network.

I know, but I’d just like to see it happen.

They might be able to get clearance for the bits they needed if they were desperate enough.

465s and 466s might already be cleared around Clapham Junction since I think they were stored there when they were new.

 

[cle]

Use the bays from Reading for local or additional capacity services - if they run 1tph to Newbury/Bedwyn and then 2tph Basingstoke, there is scope for more. The Basingstoke services might be able to extend, even 1tph to Salisbury might be useful for local journeys and connectivity. Or take on a Southampton/Dorset frequency too. Basingstoke itself is tricky for this - but these are easier, incremental solves than more tph via Woking, Clapham and into Waterloo.

What's happening to the Waterloo-Bristol paths? And are the Cardiff-Brightons becoming Portsmouths? Or anything spare there?

 

[30907]

Use the bays from Reading for local or additional capacity services - if they run 1tph to Newbury/Bedwyn and then 2tph Basingstoke, there is scope for more. The Basingstoke services might be able to extend, even 1tph to Salisbury might be useful for local journeys and connectivity. Or take on a Southampton/Dorset frequency too. Basingstoke itself is tricky for this - but these are easier, incremental solves than more tph via Woking, Clapham and into Waterloo.

Despite the thread title, the OP was about lack of rolling stock.

What's happening to the Waterloo-Bristol paths?

They're needed as far as Salisbury and the 159 is sadly spoken for.

And are the Cardiff-Brightons becoming Portsmouths? Or anything spare there?

GWR will have a use for the set.

 

[cle]

I was thinking more in terms of the paths and frequencies - but point taken on the stock side of things.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

GWR will have a use for the set.

The set released from not going to Brighton is already spoken for, it was written off in last Autumn’s incident in Salisbury!

 

[swt_passenger]

WNXX had previously told me that they were going to be brought back until there was sufficient stock available.

Despite someone there also explaining quite clearly in a reply to you on 11 Dec 2021 that there were no motor coaches left?

 

[fgwrich]

Serious question here (in amongst the wibble of 442s etc), In light of the considerable changes in travel patterns as a result of the pandemic (eg leisure being up, commuting down), Do we reckon we will still see large scale infrastructure projects planned for the South Western such as Woking & Basingstoke grade separation etc, or do we think those projects will be dead in the water?

 

[30907]

Serious question here (in amongst the wibble of 442s etc), In light of the considerable changes in travel patterns as a result of the pandemic (eg leisure being up, commuting down), Do we reckon we will still see large scale infrastructure projects planned for the South Western such as Woking & Basingstoke grade separation etc, or do we think those projects will be dead in the water?

Interesting question. AIUI Basingstoke would be useful for southbound freight so might still be justified. Woking - wait and see how things develop!

 

[Mitchell Hurd]

Keeping 455's or anything with 2/3 door layout is far more sensible than using a 158/159 - I dread to think of the punctuality at peak times if one of those trundled onto a 455 working!

 

[zwk500]

Serious question here (in amongst the wibble of 442s etc), In light of the considerable changes in travel patterns as a result of the pandemic (eg leisure being up, commuting down), Do we reckon we will still see large scale infrastructure projects planned for the South Western such as Woking & Basingstoke grade separation etc, or do we think those projects will be dead in the water?

Basingstoke will remain in consideration although whether any funding becomes available is another matter. Woking flyover always has the problem that as you get into London there's no capacity for extra services to run in, so you end up spending a vast amount of money and still have the same service level as before.

 

[swt_passenger]

Serious question here (in amongst the wibble of 442s etc), In light of the considerable changes in travel patterns as a result of the pandemic (eg leisure being up, commuting down), Do we reckon we will still see large scale infrastructure projects planned for the South Western such as Woking & Basingstoke grade separation etc, or do we think those projects will be dead in the water?

I expect Woking is firmly on the furthest back burner now, because the Dec 2022 timetable consultation stated one of it’s purposes was to reduce existing congestion by reducing the total number of peak fast line services between Woking and Waterloo compared to pre-Covid.