Cardiff Bay station

[adamt958]

Hey all.

Do any of you think that Cardiff Bay itself and the station would benefit from having services from other places instead of being a shuttle from queen street, with Central and Queen street both getting additional platforms does it seem like the bay station is being cast out?

I know the track layout is not ideal for visitors with the line going to queen street and not Central but even if once every half hour the shuttle is kept in queen street on the terminating platform for a longer period so a service from the valleys can give at least a little diversity for the station.

Just thinking because I feel like the current service is inadequate concidering that Cardiff Bay is one of the biggest tourist attractions within South Wales.

 

[Pacerpilot]

But it makes huge 'on-time' performance figures for ATW, as it's self contained and does not conflict with other late running services.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Hey all.

Do any of you think that Cardiff Bay itself and the station would benefit from having services from other places instead of being a shuttle from queen street, with Central and Queen street both getting additional platforms does it seem like the bay station is being cast out?

I know the track layout is not ideal for visitors with the line going to queen street and not Central but even if once every half hour the shuttle is kept in queen street on the terminating platform for a longer period so a service from the valleys can give at least a little diversity for the station.

Just thinking because I feel like the current service is inadequate concidering that Cardiff Bay is one of the biggest tourist attractions within South Wales.

With 2 Coryton, 2 Merthyr, 2 Aberdare, 2 Treherbert and 4 Rhymney Valley trains per hour where do you choose from and why? My experience is that a lot of Valley traffic goes down to Central.

Converting the branch to light rail and extending it as part of a light rail system around Cardiff is the best solution. Currently its easier to get out the south side of Central and get the Blue Number 6 Baycar bendy buses than trawl up to Queen St and down.

 

[adamt958]

But it makes huge 'on-time' performance figures for ATW, as it's self contained and does not conflict with other late running services.

This is true, but frustrating for people like me who work In the bay, good stats or not, the place needs a better rail service.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

With 2 Coryton, 2 Merthyr, 2 Aberdare, 2 Treherbert and 4 Rhymney Valley trains per hour where do you choose from and why? My experience is that a lot of Valley traffic goes down to Central.

Converting the branch to light rail and extending it as part of a light rail system around Cardiff is the best solution. Currently its easier to get out the south side of Central and get the Blue Number 6 Baycar bendy buses than trawl up to Queen St and down.

I think(?) all services from the valleys go to Central/Penarth/Radyr/Bridgend via Rhoose. As for Which service to choose from I am unsure, just thinking from an outside view that the place needs a new service as I have to travel back and forth to Bridgend every day, I am aware that direct connections to anywhere outside the valleys is impossible, but there must be some sort of demand for it

 

[NathanPrior]

It could also do with a ticket machine!

 

[PHILIPE]

But it makes huge 'on-time' performance figures for ATW, as it's self contained and does not conflict with other late running services.

Bay services used to run to and from other places but now deliberately self contained after the introduction of a more frequent Timetable in 2005 to avoid it crossing the throat at Queen St from which experience showed resulted in delays. Even with the altered platform arrangements it would make no difference and an additional Bay is at the moment being constructed to accomodate it when Platform 2 (formerly 3) can be utilised as a through platform again. There are only 5 mins between Valley trains which makes it near impracticable to put something else in between, especially a throat crossing movement.

 

[Gareth Marston]

It could also do with a ticket machine!

It's pretty awful considering its suppose to be in the heart of the redeveloped Bay stuck behind the crumbling facade of the old terminus some distance from the goodies in the Bay. There was a Cardiff Bay Development cooperation but the rail link was ignored back in the 90's they built a unnecessary mile long dual carriageway that parallels the railway line called Lloyd George Avenue which were still paying for under PFI.

 

[adamt958]

It's pretty awful considering its suppose to be in the heart of the redeveloped Bay stuck behind the crumbling facade of the old terminus some distance from the goodies in the Bay. There was a Cardiff Bay Development cooperation but the rail link was ignored back in the 90's they built a unnecessary mile long dual carriageway that parallels the railway line called Lloyd George Avenue which were still paying for under PFI.

I think a lot could be done, or easily helped. Just by simply re-opening the station building and manning it. Would do the place and the station wonders.

My belief is that they kept the wrong platform
Open in the first place. The station would have been more easily visible from the Millennium Centre hence perhaps a slight increase of people using the station.

 

[edwin_m]

Converting the branch to light rail and extending it as part of a light rail system around Cardiff is the best solution.

I agree - it could then provide a much more frequent service linking to Central station and probably beyond to the city centre. It's an idea that has popped up every couple of years for as long as I can remember...

 

[headshot119]

It could also do with a ticket machine!

Amen to that, I wonder how much revenue ATW lose out on with people hoping from "The Bay" towards places like Cathays and Llandaf.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Amen to that, I wonder how much revenue ATW lose out on with people hoping from "The Bay" towards places like Cathays and Llandaf.

In my experience the conductors always come round between Queen St and Bay.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Yes I have been to the bay and the station is obviously "whats left". I would make it part of a tram/light rail route that penetrates the bay area properly (at the South end) and finds its way to Cardiff Central station and the city centre. It could even make its way right round the bay by crossing the barrage. It could then go up the steep hill to Penarth. Probably more tempting is to come back via Grangetown through the out of town retail area and then along the West bank of the Taff river to central Cardiff. There is enough room alongside the river to do that and it would end up very near Cardiff central station - a loop !.

 

[adamt958]

Yes I have been to the bay and the station is obviously "whats left". I would make it part of a tram/light rail route that penetrates the bay area properly (at the South end) and finds its way to Cardiff Central station and the city centre. It could even make its way right round the bay by crossing the barrage. It could then go up the steep hill to Penarth. Probably more tempting is to come back via Grangetown through the out of town retail area and then along the West bank of the Taff river to central Cardiff. There is enough room alongside the river to do that and it would end up very near Cardiff central station - a loop !.

A great idea that!, would a tram/metro style train be able to get up the hill?

 

[Mojo]

Looking at satellite view on Google Maps, and from my own memory of having been down there a couple of times, it looks as if there's wide enough grass space to extend the line up to at least Bute Place. Was this what was intended with this when the road was built and the area redeveloped or was it just a coincidence?

 

[adamt958]

Looking at satellite view on Google Maps, and from my own memory of having been down there a couple of times, it looks as if there's wide enough grass space to extend the line up to at least Bute Place. Was this what was intended with this when the road was built and the area redeveloped or was it just a coincidence?

I think that is just the path of where the old line used to go, plus because they kept the wrong platform in use they would have to extend the track through the building which is now grade 2 listed

 

[PaulHarding150]

I think a lot could be done, or easily helped. Just by simply re-opening the station building and manning it. Would do the place and the station wonders.

I agree something needs to be done about the old station building, but is there any need for a ticket office and all the costs that will bring?

 

[anthony263]

The old building at Cardiff Central station has become a bit of an eyesore and could certainly do with demolishing or repairing. Perhaps take it to St Fagans museum and rebuild it there.

The latest Modern Railways has a good photo showing a tram-train crossing to the Wales Millenium Centre using a proposed level crossing (That should be fun to watch).

The current station site I agree is now in the wrong place. The Welsh Government have put forward proposels to improve teh service which includes convertion to tram-train operation and an extension to Roath Basin (Port Teigr Way) as well as around Butetown to Cardiff Central station. A station will be built where the line passes close to Callaghan Square with services proposed to run beyond Queen Street to Coryton and a new Park & Ride development at Northern Avenue/Junction 32 close to the M4/A470.

Even with the work at Queen Street there is still going to be problems so long as the current bridge over Newport Road remains. I do hope at some point in teh future the bridge is replaced with one that is wider and can accomodate 4 tracks allowing the track layout to be remodelled removing the existing junction between the Taff Vale and Rhymney Valley lines. A new junction will be built just to the south of Queen Street stations allowing trains from the Rhymney line to acess Cardiff Central.

The downside to this is that it removes the ability for trains coming from the Taff Vale line to acess the branch to Cardiff Bay.

 

[Peter Sarf]

A great idea that!, would a tram/metro style train be able to get up the hill?

Thinking about it - er rack and pinion . I could not ride my bike up it but there might be a gentler less obvious route. Penarth station is not far below the other side of that ridge.

Sometime last year I also walked beyond Penarth station towards Barry as the trackbed is all there except for one stretch with some new houses on however the houses could stay but they would have to share their road !.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

The real tragedy is that the Riverside Branch was allowed to wither away. There was a clause in the 1962 Transport Act that stipulated that should a line be deemed as being of strategic importance, the right of way was to be maintained in case it should be needed again. The Riverside Branch was designated as such and consent for closure included that condition. Within a few years, however, at least one building was allowed to block the formation.

Clarence Road, a station that completely rebuilt in the late Fifties, was in the heart of the Bay and gave direct access to passengers from Barry; The Vale of Glamorgan and, theoretically, anywhere west of Cardiff. Whilst great improvements, in frequency, were going ahead on the rest of the local services, the Riverside platforms (8 & 9) were demolished.

What a waste. There has been much trumpeting about the construction of a new platform at Cardiff Central as an 'improvement'. Fair enough but where is this platform to go? On the site of Riverside; where else?

 

[swcovas]

It's not going to happen but it's a shame that Clarence Rd station was closed under Beeching. Also running down to the Docks and terminating only a few hundred metres from the current Cardiff Bay station it gave access via Central to the Barry, Penarth and Vale lines. It would have been an asset today.

I also think it's a great shame nothing is made of the old, original Taff Vale building which is starting to look a bit of an eyesore. It's a historic Grade II listed building and I seem to remember it was a Railway Museum for a time.....what happened? It could be another attraction within the Bay AND provide some sort of passenger facilities at a station which someone else has already pointed out doesn't even have a ticket machine.

 

[anthony263]

It's not going to happen but it's a shame that Clarence Rd station was closed under Beeching. Also running down to the Docks and terminating only a few hundred metres from the current Cardiff Bay station it gave access via Central to the Barry, Penarth and Vale lines. It would have been an asset today.

I also think it's a great shame nothing is made of the old, original Taff Vale building which is starting to look a bit of an eyesore. It's a historic Grade II listed building and I seem to remember it was a Railway Museum for a time.....what happened? It could be another attraction within the Bay AND provide some sort of passenger facilities at a station which someone else has already pointed out doesn't even have a ticket machine.

The Taff Vale building was at one time used by the Vale of glamorgan railway before they moved to the shed down at Barry and most of them are now of course at the Bridgend/Garw Valley Railway in Pontycymmer.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The Cardiff bay station building looks like it needs knocking down sadly. Nothing has been done with it. Another example of the railway looking like an eysore in an area instead of an asset. I think the railway should extend further South towards the water but sadly the roads have already been built.

TBH the area to the West or South West of Cardiff Bay station looks tired in relation to the redevelopment to its South and East (Welsh parliament etc etc. there are some fine buildings but walking along the road towards the river Taff and Grangemouth reminds me that the docklands redevelopment effect is yet to stretch that far but it must be getting warm. The more I think about it a tram route round there would be a shot in the arm.

 

[adamt958]

the station isn't advertised anywhere near enough. it needs at least a ticket machine, and i think manning the station would do a world of good, a big sign up on the building saying that its the station, cleaning the old platform up. into perhaps an outdoor waiting room cafe. one thing that we all agree on is that the station needs an overhaul one way or another

 

[Greenback]

Do any of you think that Cardiff Bay itself and the station would benefit from having services from other places instead of being a shuttle from queen street, with Central and Queen street both getting additional platforms does it seem like the bay station is being cast out?

I wa spndering this very subject while at Queen Street last week!

I know the track layout is not ideal for visitors with the line going to queen street and not Central but even if once every half hour the shuttle is kept in queen street on the terminating platform for a longer period so a service from the valleys can give at least a little diversity for the station.

I'm not sure that would be workable.

Just thinking because I feel like the current service is inadequate concidering that Cardiff Bay is one of the biggest tourist attractions within South Wales.

What would b ideal would be a triangular junction west of Central so that trains from both directions could get to the bay - with platforms on all sides!

I won't hold my breath...

But it makes huge 'on-time' performance figures for ATW, as it's self contained and does not conflict with other late running services.

Yes, the service does have its uses!

Converting the branch to light rail and extending it as part of a light rail system around Cardiff is the best solution. Currently its easier to get out the south side of Central and get the Blue Number 6 Baycar bendy buses than trawl up to Queen St and down.

I reluctantly agree.

Bay services used to run to and from other places but now deliberately self contained after the introduction of a more frequent Timetable in 2005 to avoid it crossing the throat at Queen St from which experience showed resulted in delays. Even with the altered platform arrangements it would make no difference and an additional Bay is at the moment being constructed to accomodate it when Platform 2 (formerly 3) can be utilised as a through platform again. There are only 5 mins between Valley trains which makes it near impracticable to put something else in between, especially a throat crossing movement.

Yes, there are practical reasons why improvements would be costly and difficult. Tram trains could be the answer.

It's pretty awful considering its suppose to be in the heart of the redeveloped Bay stuck behind the crumbling facade of the old terminus some distance from the goodies in the Bay. There was a Cardiff Bay Development cooperation but the rail link was ignored back in the 90's they built a unnecessary mile long dual carriageway that parallels the railway line called Lloyd George Avenue which were still paying for under PFI.

Indeed. On previous trips down the bay line I have gazed at the monstrosity and asked myself 'Why?'!

Yes I have been to the bay and the station is obviously "whats left". I would make it part of a tram/light rail route that penetrates the bay area properly (at the South end) and finds its way to Cardiff Central station and the city centre. It could even make its way right round the bay by crossing the barrage. It could then go up the steep hill to Penarth. Probably more tempting is to come back via Grangetown through the out of town retail area and then along the West bank of the Taff river to central Cardiff. There is enough room alongside the river to do that and it would end up very near Cardiff central station - a loop !.

I think this is a great idea!

My own viewpoint is that while it would be nice to see a variety of services running through from the Valleys to a brand new station in Cardiff Bay, a little closer to the waterfront, it is not a realistic ambition.

I concur with those who have expressed their dismay that Clarence Street was closed, but what is done is done.

 

[krus_aragon]

Indeed. On previous trips down the bay line I have gazed at the monstrosity and asked myself 'Why?'!

The oddest thing I find about Lloyd George Avenue is the junction at its northern end. It's a nice, swish dual carriageway that links the Flourish at the Bay with, er, a pokey junction on Herbert St. If it led onto Callaghan Square properly, it might have found a raison d'etre.

 

[JohnCarlson]

I think that is just the path of where the old line used to go, plus because they kept the wrong platform in use they would have to extend the track through the building which is now grade 2 listed

And you would have to cross a busy road as well though it is a shame the station is not that bit closer.

I guess there is plenty of space to put a light rail line in.

 

[edwin_m]

The oddest thing I find about Lloyd George Avenue is the junction at its northern end. It's a nice, swish dual carriageway that links the Flourish at the Bay with, er, a pokey junction on Herbert St. If it led onto Callaghan Square properly, it might have found a raison d'etre.

I think that's because they wanted to get rid of the railway but didn't manage to. Even with a tramway, if it goes up to Queen Street the bridge would most likely have to stay because there isn't room for a ramp up between Queen Street and the bridge over the main line. Replacing the railway by a tramway to Central would allow this area to be opened up, also the embankment could be lowered to ground level so people could cross it more easily.

 

[adamt958]

It's an odd one this station definitely, the least it needs is more advertising. Pushing people to use the station.

 

[Muzer]

Currently its easier to get out the south side of Central and get the Blue Number 6 Baycar bendy buses than trawl up to Queen St and down.

Yup, that's exactly what I did last time I went to Cardiff (with my mum - if I was by myself I probably would have gone the rail route).