Castle Cary: usage down, interchange up (dramatically)

[jopsuk]

Smallbrook Junction reports 6,067 entries and exits but as there is no access other than by train and it is used only as an interchange between Island Line and the Isle of Wight Stream Railway, surely this is in fact a figure of 100% interchange?

Well no, because you're exiting the national rail system (admittedly an isolated segment of it) to enter a private heritage railway.

OK so there's through ticketing available, but that's neither here nor there!

 

[70014IronDuke]

I think I can help you out with a reason for a few of those.

I am regular user of Castle Cary. I commute from there to Reading each day.

I normally catch the 06:39 Departure from Castle Cary.

A few minutes before it arrives, the train from Weymouth arrives at around 06:33 but isnt scheduled to depart until 06:44 after my usual train. It calls at Bruton, Frome and Westbury.

What I have noticed is that there are a small number of regulars who

Get off the Weymouth train and onto the Paddington Train which departs 5 minutes earlier and goes straight to Westbury with no further stops.

They then get out again at Wesbury. Thus saving themselves some waiting time and reducing their Journey time from Castle Cary to Westbury.

Does that make sense how I have explained it ?

Ha! Fascinating! Yes, it makes perfect sense in terms of timings, but not in terms of the statistics

Because none of this group your cite would count as interchange - at least, I don't think so - because the system would expect them to stay on the direct Heart of Wessex train.

I had noticed this morning connection, and wondered if any used it. (I suppose, for example, it gives a faster journey to Reading from Yeovil PM than from Yeovil Jcn via Basingstoke.)

Do they all, in fact, get off at Westbury? If any go onto Reading, or Newbury or even Pewsey, they would count as interchange. (I assume we are talking about 4-5-6 people here? not many, but if they are every day commuters, it adds up.)

It's actually a very good link up - but after this, there is almost no way of getting from CLC to Newbury direct for most of the day.

This connection also allows folks from Exeter/Taunton to change and get to Bruton and Frome, of course - but I can't seen many people needing to get to such places at around 07.00 - unless you notice anything different?

 

[Taunton]

I think that's because originally the Taunton service was run by Cornelius out of Barrington, and the Yeovil ones out of South Petherton by Hutchings. The two companies amalgamated in 1936 but they never seem to have updated the route permissions. They even had two separate stabling points in South Petherton: the garage at the top of the hill, and a piece of derelict wasteland in the village centre.
As to the red buses - they were red in the early 1960's but switched to maroon/cream starting ~1968. There was one AEC Regent / Willowbrook Expressway which was used as a DPV and so kept in crimson for occasional coaching work, but was also the mainstay on the Taunton route. Are you remembering that beast? Like riding in greenhouse

Whatever it's name origins, a company named "H&C" on the side of its buses would inevitably be known by us schoolboys as "Hot and Cold".

Alas a bit before 1968. The Taunton terminal was in the car park (still there) in front of the Kings Arms pub in Staplegrove Road. I think the buses were secondhand, oddball 1950s types, like Dennis, and smaller than the normal types. They were referred to by older members of the family as "the funny buses".

They didn't go to Cary so nothing to do with this thread!

 

[D1009]

I can't really answer the OP other than it is most likely the way the figures are calculated which may have changed rather than the figures themselves. I've no doubt the figures are produced by computer modelling rather than people on the ground counting. If there is a flow of passengers from the Weymouth route to Reading and Paddington there could be some reason why the model has decided that the interchanges are at Castle Cary rather than somewhere else hitherto.

I do remember BR improving the services to and from Castle Cary in the 1970s and early 1980s when Parkway stations were all the rage, and at the time services on the SW route from Exeter were slow, infrequent and (most importantly) unreliable. The improved services were very successful in attracting people from the Yeovil area who found driving to Castle Cary far more agreeable than using the other route. More recently services on the SW route have been improved, so this must have had an effect on the non-interchange traffic at Cary.

 

[paul1609]

The more significant demand in this corridor was always between Plymouth and Portsmouth, the two major naval centres. That also has long been a nuisance journey by rail, at least two changes and sometimes more

Unfortunately that flow has all but been extinguished. The Naval Service has reduced in size to 29200 of which probably 10000 might have reason to travel between Portsmouth and Plymouth.
In reality its probably down to below 500 trips per week and thats not going to justify any investment at Rail industry prices. Most people would use their own car or a one way hire car for courses because its cheaper and quicker.

 

[fizzwheel]

This morning, I did a quick count.

8 people got off the Weymouth train. 4 of those got on the Paddington Train. They were the "regulars" that I recognise as doing that normally.

The improved services were very successful in attracting people from the Yeovil area who found driving to Castle Cary far more agreeable than using the other route. More recently services on the SW route have been improved, so this must have had an effect on the non-interchange traffic at Cary.

I live in Yeovil and the above is what I do. Despite its a 20 minute or so drive to Castle Cary.

1. The Journey once I have got on the Paddington Train is much faster
2. It doesnt involve changing trains to get to Reading, which is what I have to do if I go from Yeovil Junction as I have to change at Basingstoke.

I know I could go from Pen Mill or Yeovil Junction now that South West trains are running some new services., but from where my house is both of these are the wrong side of Yeovil, especially Yeovil Junction. Which is why I just drive straight to Castle Cary also the car park charges at Castle Cary are less than they are at Yeovil Junction, probably cancelled out by the fuel costs to drive to Cary though...

I do go from Yeovil Junction but only when Glastonbury Festival is on, as Castle Cary is really busy during that period.

 

[Hartington]

I live 2 miles from Castle Cary station and about 8 miles from Templecombe. I often find the SWT service more convenient given the hourly frequency they offer. It also depends where I'm going - Olympia and Earls Court via Clapham Junction is simple, Excel is a short jump from Waterloo. It's also cheaper than Castle Cary unless you get a good deal on an advance or resort to some pretty complex split ticketing!

 

[70014IronDuke]

I can't really answer the OP other than it is most likely the way the figures are calculated which may have changed rather than the figures themselves. I've no doubt the figures are produced by computer modelling rather than people on the ground counting. If there is a flow of passengers from the Weymouth route to Reading and Paddington there could be some reason why the model has decided that the interchanges are at Castle Cary rather than somewhere else hitherto.

I am 99.9% sure it is not by people counting on the ground! there may be some flow towards Reading and back, but my hunch is the main interchange flow is to/from the west of England to Weymouth/Bournemouth.

I do remember BR improving the services to and from Castle Cary in the 1970s and early 1980s when Parkway stations were all the rage, and at the time services on the SW route from Exeter were slow, infrequent and (most importantly) unreliable. The improved services were very successful in attracting people from the Yeovil area who found driving to Castle Cary far more agreeable than using the other route. ....

Now you mention it, I have vague memories of reading some such in Modern Railways of the day. (Or perhaps it was much later, when it was reporting that NSE/SWT were winning passengers back to the Waterloo route.)
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This morning, I did a quick count.

8 people got off the Weymouth train. 4 of those got on the Paddington Train. They were the "regulars" that I recognise as doing that normally.

That's very interesting. Not so much that four people change into the PAD train, but that four people actually want to go to Castle Cary at 06.45 in the morning! (I suppose some could be waiting for the 07.14 to Weymouth?)

Do you normally notice the same four alighting at Westbury?

It's also interesting because yesterday (09/01/17), your Exeter-PAD train was about 18 late. Instead of allowing the Weymouth -Bristol to go forward (and, I'd guess, allow the PAD train to overtake it at Frome), they held it until after the express had gone. This made the local 15 late away from CLC and ultimately, 24L into Bristol Parkway.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C20522/2017/01/09/advanced

(I suppose, however, that it's possible that they could not loop the local at Frome due to capacity limitations.)

I live in Yeovil and the above is what I do. Despite its a 20 minute or so drive to Castle Cary.

1. The Journey once I have got on the Paddington Train is much faster
2. It doesnt involve changing trains to get to Reading, which is what I have to do if I go from Yeovil Junction as I have to change at Basingstoke.

I know I could go from Pen Mill or Yeovil Junction now that South West trains are running some new services., but from where my house is both of these are the wrong side of Yeovil, especially Yeovil Junction. Which is why I just drive straight to Castle Cary also the car park charges at Castle Cary are less than they are at Yeovil Junction, probably cancelled out by the fuel costs to drive to Cary though...

Makes perfect sense, and works if your job is in Reading. You just need to make sure the company never thinks of relocating to Newbury or, worse still, the horrors of Hungerford

I do go from Yeovil Junction but only when Glastonbury Festival is on, as Castle Cary is really busy during that period.

Which is kind of ironic - the principal event which drives passenger usage up at Castle Cary drives you away
Thanks for your reports, fascinating.
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I live 2 miles from Castle Cary station and about 8 miles from Templecombe. I often find the SWT service more convenient given the hourly frequency they offer. It also depends where I'm going - Olympia and Earls Court via Clapham Junction is simple, Excel is a short jump from Waterloo. It's also cheaper than Castle Cary unless you get a good deal on an advance or resort to some pretty complex split ticketing!

I suspect even people in Exeter do the same, again, depending on where they live, where they are heading in London, not to forget their pockets.

 

[The Ham]

Unfortunately that flow has all but been extinguished. The Naval Service has reduced in size to 29200 of which probably 10000 might have reason to travel between Portsmouth and Plymouth.
In reality its probably down to below 500 trips per week and thats not going to justify any investment at Rail industry prices. Most people would use their own car or a one way hire car for courses because its cheaper and quicker.

Just Naval staff does between the two would never justify rail improvements, however it could well be that those Naval flows just to the balance in the favour of doing something.

SWT often have a fixed rate off peak go anywhere on their network tickets which would mean that travel between Portsmouth and Exeter about £30 return, which would only just cover the fuel in a fairly fugul car.

Yes diving would be quicker, but probably not by as much as it would appear if you have to factor in the time picking up and dropping off the hire car.

 

[Taunton]

It's not just "business" travel between the two naval centres for meetings or ship transfers; the two cities contain a large population of both present and past naval families, with a number that have become split between them, and there's a considerable leave and leisure travel movement between the two.

 

[fizzwheel]

Do you normally notice the same four alighting at Westbury?

Only one of them does. I am not sure about the others, because normally I have drifted off to sleep !

With regard to avoiding Castle Cary whilst the Festival is on. Primary reason is that they shut the main carpark as the bus the Festival goers from the station to the Festival site and they shut the carpark to allow it to be used by the bus companies for turning around and loading.

They provide alternative parking in a muddy field a short walk from the station last year with the rain this turned into a mud bath !

Here is a youtube vid of how busy the station gets during festival time, wil give you some idea of the number of passengers ( if you havent seen it already )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVYhp00rzHo

probably going off topic a little so apologies

 

[Castle Cary]

Quote: It's also interesting because yesterday (09/01/17), your Exeter-PAD train was about 18 late. Instead of allowing the Weymouth -Bristol to go forward (and, I'd guess, allow the PAD train to overtake it at Frome), they held it until after the express had gone. This made the local 15 late away from CLC and ultimately, 24L into Bristol Parkway.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/trai...01/09/advanced

(I suppose, however, that it's possible that they could not loop the local at Frome due to capacity limitations.)
end quote.

Presumably if it had left Cary at its scheduled time, there would be a path ready and waiting at Frome? If they then needed to shift it to accept a westbound train, it can be held between Frome and Clink Road at signal 197, whilst the fast overtook.

 

[70014IronDuke]

Only one of them does. I am not sure about the others, because normally I have drifted off to sleep !

Well, if the other three stay on, then they will count towards the interchange figures. And they presumably (though not certainly) come back. That would make six a day. I'd have thought it likely they go to Reading, or perhaps Newbury.

Here is a youtube vid of how busy the station gets during festival time, wil give you some idea of the number of passengers ( if you havent seen it already )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVYhp00rzHo

probably going off topic a little so apologies

I had seen it, but yes, it's quite a lot of people
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.
[/I] end quote.

Presumably if it had left Cary at its scheduled time, there would be a path ready and waiting at Frome? If they then needed to shift it to accept a westbound train, it can be held between Frome and Clink Road at signal 197, whilst the fast overtook.

Yes, but if they need the Frome road for a westbound stopper, and it is blocked by the Bristol DMU, then this would in turn block the down main. At least, that's what I assumed. I don't know the area in any detail at all.

 

[fizzwheel]

I have a theory about what they are doing...

This week I have been on a training course in Bristol so I am using the Weymouth to Bristol Service they are getting off of.

That departs Castle Cary as we know at 06:44

Its also from Trowbridge onwards busy and from Bath Spa to Bristol its full and standing.

Now what I reckon they are doing is this.

They are coming from somewhere down the line. Getting off the Weymouth service, getting on the Paddington Service, changing at Westbury and then going to Bristol.

Doing this means they get to Bristol at 07:52

If they stay on the Weymouth Bristol service you get to Bristol at 08:05.

Thus saving a few minutes and maybe the Westbury - Bristol service is less busy ?

Also coming home tonight I used the 16:49 Bristol - Weymouth Service. A few people got off that at Castle Cary and were waiting for the Exeter St Davids train which is due at Castle Cary at 18:22.

So there a few more people for your interchange numbers...

 

[70014IronDuke]

......

Also coming home tonight I used the 16:49 Bristol - Weymouth Service. A few people got off that at Castle Cary and were waiting for the Exeter St Davids train which is due at Castle Cary at 18:22.

So there a few more people for your interchange numbers...

The connection into this train (the 16.36 ex-PAD) is well timed, so I can imagine some using it for interchange - but, I'd have thought most people would have chosen to change into it at Westbury - more time and better facilities? Of course, it's possible that some have come from Frome or Bruton, but I wouldn't have thought numbers would come to much on most days. (I'd have guessed at none, normally!)
It would be very useful for someone arriving from Weymouth - but in fact it leaves just 12 minutes before 17.30 ex Weymouth arrives.

 

[edwin_m]

I'd have thought most people would have chosen to change into it at Westbury - more time and better facilities?

Perhaps following the principle that I tend to use - if there are several possible changing points between two trains, stay on the first one as far as possible. Then if something happens to the second one, you are at least nearer the destination when asking for a taxi or phoning someone for a lift.