Caught Today Using Railcard 30 days expired Chiltern Rail

[FireAndHope]

Hi all. A few hours ago as I was going home a ticket guy at London Marylebone asked to see my railcard (I had just gone through the barriers). The railcard had expired and I foolishly thought it was expiring this month. The guy then took down my details and told me to expect a letter.

What can I do about this? I am not a fare evader. I have always previously paid full price and made a silly oversight here.

What are my chances of getting a settlement? What should I do in this situation?

 

[furlong]

I am not a fare evader.

Firstly you need to accept that in the eye of the law, you are one.
Once you've accepted that, wait for the letter and then you'll need to apologise and offer to pay what's necessary to put things right - usually the difference in fares plus some "costs".
Chiltern usually settle in cases like this, though you might have to ask a couple of times if the process is outsourced in the way it often is.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

Chiltern or a company called Transport Investigations Limited will write to you saying that they have received a report and are considering prosecuting you. I suggest writing a short, concise reply mentioning the following points:

- That you are sorry for what has happened
- What you have learned from the incident
- That you are keen to settle the matter without the need for court action
- Offer to pay the outstanding fare and the train company's administrative costs in dealing with the matter

Chiltern/TIL are usually prepared to offer an administrative settlement (commonly known as an out of court settlement) for people who engage with the process and who haven't come to their attention before. It's usual for them to send a second letter saying they see no reason why they shouldn't prosecute, and inviting further comment. A re-wording of the first reply then normally results in the offer of a settlement. We cannot guarantee you will be offered a settlement and Chiltern/TIL are within their rights to prosecute you in the magistrates court ahouls they choose to do so.

An aggravating factor is that you have travelled before without a valid railcard. Chiltern/TIL will be able to search your online ticket purchase history and will probably ask you to comment about these journeys as well. You are not required to incriminate yourself so I would only mention the other occasions you travelled without a railcard if they specifically ask you about them.

If you are offered a settlement the amount tends to be around £150 plus the outstanding fare. They will normally charge the full Anytime fare with no account taken of the amount you have paid. An out of court settlement might appear to be a fine, but it isn't and you won't have a criminal record as a result of accepting one.

Feel free to post a copy of the letter once it arrives (with personal details redacted) along with your draft reply in this thread and forum members will be happy to proof read it for you.

 

[Sheffcaster202]

Just to add to @Hadders comments, if you plan to travel regularly and take advantage of the railcard discount it may be worth renewing it and mentioning that you have done so.

I’d also suggest you set an alert in your phone calendar for when it expires.

You could also mention this in your reply to show you have taken all possible steps to avoid this happening in future?

 

[gray1404]

It is worth mentioning though that when you were stopped no offence had been committed. You were stopped before you had boarded the train and before any travel had taken place. Did the member of staff give you an opportunity to mitigate the situation such as buying another ticket without the discount?

 

[FireAndHope]

Moderator Note: I've merged this post in to the original thread started by @FireAndHope in December 2023 to keep everything relating to the case in one place.

Hi guys,

I have been charged with travelling on a Chiltern railways train without a valid ticket (details below). However, I am keen to fight the charge because the way in which the charge came about was very confused.

For context:

Late last year, I was making my way home from work in London. As I had been unemployed for a long while I was entitled to a JobCentre Railway Card (which provides a discount), I had therefore purchased a ticket using the railcard. When I arrived at X station (where I get the train home to X), a Chiltern railways attendant approached me on the platform (I had not entered the train) and asked to see my ticket. I produced the ticket. He then asked to see the associated railcard. I produced the railcard. It was at this point I realised my error, the railcard had been expired for a couple weeks - I had foolishly believed it was valid through to month is was travelling as opposed to the previous month. However, at this point the matter becomes confusing - upon seeing the invalid railcard, the attendant confiscates it and asks me to give a statement, at this point my train is 3 minutes from leaving, I ask him do I have to give a statement and he says no but it may harm me later. I then ask can I buy a new ticket to travel, he says no. I asked how then can I get home, he says he can validate my current ticket to enable me to travel (I point out that at this point I had not entered the train). I offered then and there to purchase a correct ticket but he did not permit me to do this. I then ended the interview and boarded the train.

Today:

I received a ‘single justice procedure notice’ in forming me I had been charged with an offence.

The charges are:

1:

‘That you, on X Day between X and X stations did contravene Byelaw no 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws made under Section 219 and Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000, in accordance with the Railways Act 2005, in that you entered a train in a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the Railway without having with you a valid ticket entitling you to travel.’

2:

‘That you, on X Day between X and X stations did contravene Byelaw no 18 (2) of the Railway Byelaws made under Section 219 and Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000, in accordance with the Railways Act 2005, in that you failed to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person..’

Chiltern Railways then claims the fare avoided approximately £40 which they claim together with around £170 for the prosecution costs.

I am happy to settle any fee out of court, however it is completely wrong to suggest i entered the train for the purpose of travelling without a valid ticket. I must make it clear: when I was stopped by the attendant no offence had been committed. I had not boarded any train. The attendant did not give me the opportunity to purchase the correct ticket, despite me asking to do I was not afforded the opportunity to mitigate the situation. This to me was deeply confusing. I had not travelled on any train, yet I was told I had committed an offence of travelling on a train without a valid ticket. I asked the attendant could I simply go and buy the correct ticket. He said no and would not explain further, despite being right next to a ticket booth. I asked him how can I get home. He told me he could (his words) “validate my ticket”, which he then scanned. I would not have entered the train otherwise if not for this communication from the attendant.

In terms on mitigating circumstances more generally, I have been and continue to be a customer of Chiltern railways, immediately when I got home following this incident I emailed them to apologise, I also ordered a new railcard the next day with which I have been travelling on with a valid ticket since then every week (so in no way have I ever intentionally or purposefully tried to avoid paying the railway). I can provide records to this effect. I have always in every other given circumstance paid the correct fare.

The truth is it was an honest mistake on my part to have not realised the railcard was invalid, however I immediately strove to make amends and now that I have seen the charge I believe the attendant did not give me the correct advice. To receive a criminal record over this would be devastating.

Please advise on what I should do now. My immediate thoughts are: send an email apologising and outlining the above, and contacting a solicitor to help get a settlement.

 

[Hadders]

Did you get an initial letter from Chiltern or a company called Transport Investigations Limited who Chiltern often use to deal with cases like this? If so did you send a reply? If so, what did you say and did they send a reply to your response?

If the matter ends up in court then you will lose as, legally speaking, you did not have a valid ticket for travel. Being able to show previous evidence of purchasing the correct tickets does not change this, although it might provide some mitigation when it comes to the punishment that is imposed.

 

[FireAndHope]

The initial letter was from Chiltern - it’s a single justice procedure notice from them. I have not yet sent any replies. The letter was received today. Is there anything to the point that I had not actually entered any train when I was stopped? Right now I am considering my next move, I have drafted the following reply but I wanted to wait to see what this forum says and a solicitor.

Potential reply:

I am writing to express my most sincere apology. I was utterly foolish to have not checked before arriving at the station that my railcard was still valid. I offer my complete regret for this incident and for incurring losses on Chiltern Railways.

Immediately after the incident I took steps to rectify the situation. I purchased a new railcard the next day and have been using it and paying the correct price since. I also wrote an apology the very same evening offering my sincere regret and willingness to make amends (see attached). I have learnt a firm lesson and have sworn never again to make this mistake.

The reason I had a jobcentre railcard is that I had been unemployed for some time, I recently begun a new job. Now as a young professional it would be utterly devastating to receive a criminal record over this incident. I take full responsibility, and ask you to please offer me the chance to settle out of court. I would be happy to pay any and all fees and administration costs as Chiltern Railways deems necessary.

I also wish to make clear that I was confused around the circumstances of when I was being questioned what I had done wrong. When the attendant, Mr X, stopped me I had not entered the train therefore I thought no offence had been committed and I asked Mr X could I not buy the correct ticket. However he told me I could not and did not explain further. For me this was deeply confusing as I was willing to immediately purchase the right ticket to enter the train. I only entered the train after confirming with Mr X if I could still travel, whereby he said he could validate my ticket for the journey home. I categorically would not have entered the train if not for being told to by Mr X.

Regardless of the circumstances, I recognise this event started with me and ultimate responsibility is mine. I offer my apology and sincere desire to rectify the situation.

Regards

 

[Hadders]

Can you post up a copy of everything you've received from Chiltern (with personal and case reference details redacted). Chiltern often send out SJPN along with a covering letter which is actually an offer of an out fo court settlement.

 

[FireAndHope]

There was no covering letter. All I have is the following - the other pages after these are pictures of my ticket and railcard and statement of financial means document.

 

[island]

1:

‘That you, on X Day between X and X stations did contravene Byelaw no 18 (1) of the Railway Byelaws made under Section 219 and Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000, in accordance with the Railways Act 2005, in that you entered a train in a non-compulsory ticket area for the purpose of travelling on the Railway without having with you a valid ticket entitling you to travel.’

2:

‘That you, on X Day between X and X stations did contravene Byelaw no 18 (2) of the Railway Byelaws made under Section 219 and Schedule 20 of the Transport Act 2000, in accordance with the Railways Act 2005, in that you failed to hand over a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person..’

They've charged the wrong offences.

Marylebone has a compulsory ticket area so byelaw 18 doesn't apply. Also, you hadn't got on the train yet.

However, you say that your intended destination was Aylesbury. The fare from Marylebone to Aylesbury is (or was at the time) £19.90. Why do you think they might be looking for £41.50?

 

[CyrusWuff]

They've charged the wrong offences.

Marylebone has a compulsory ticket area so byelaw 18 doesn't apply. Also, you hadn't got on the train yet.

However, you say that your intended destination was Aylesbury. The fare from Marylebone to Aylesbury is (or was at the time) £19.90. Why do you think they might be looking for £41.50?

£41.50 is the current Anytime Day Return (SDR) fare between Aylesbury and Marylebone, and the bundle posted by the OP shows that the ticket held was a discounted SDR.

As such, it would seem that Chiltern are trying to charge the OP for both the outward and return journeys, despite only stopping them on the Return leg.

 

[FireAndHope]

They've charged the wrong offences.

Marylebone has a compulsory ticket area so byelaw 18 doesn't apply. Also, you hadn't got on the train yet.

However, you say that your intended destination was Aylesbury. The fare from Marylebone to Aylesbury is (or was at the time) £19.90. Why do you think they might be looking for £41.50?

How would I put your point about a compulsory ticket are and byelaw 18 in writing? This is why I am so confused because I had not gotten on the train before I was told I had committed an offence. I think the 41.40 is because I purchased a return.

Is it best to fight the charges or just beg for a settlement? I’m worried if I challenge the basis of the charges they will be less inclined to offer a settlement. But at the same time I am convinced the correct process was not followed.

 

[Pushpit]

How would I put your point about a compulsory ticket are and byelaw 18 in writing? This is why I am so confused because I had not gotten on the train before I was told I had committed an offence. I think the 41.40 is because I purchased a return.

Is it best to fight the charges or just beg for a settlement? I’m worried if I challenge the basis of the charges they will be less inclined to offer a settlement. But at the same time I am convinced the correct process was not followed.

My opinion would be to
1) Acknowledge receipt of the letter
2) Accept you were in the wrong with an expired railcard
3) Note, gently, that you had not in fact entered a train when stopped, but were told by the RPI to continue the journey, therefore the summons is not correctly worded. Whilst still accepting that you had an expired railcard. I specifically would not say, at this point, that you will challenge the case.
4) List accurately every other trip you made with that expired railcard
5) Ask for an out of court settlement.

Chiltern seems to be in mid crackdown mode at the moment, it's possible they omitted to send you the "invite to interview" letter which has featured in many other recent threads.

 

[FireAndHope]

My opinion would be to
1) Acknowledge receipt of the letter
2) Accept you were in the wrong with an expired railcard
3) Note, gently, that you had not in fact entered a train when stopped, but were told by the RPI to continue the journey, therefore the summons is not correctly worded. Whilst still accepting that you had an expired railcard. I specifically would not say, at this point, that you will challenge the case.
4) List accurately every other trip you made with that expired railcard
5) Ask for an out of court settlement.

Chiltern seems to be in mid crackdown mode at the moment, it's possible they omitted to send you the "invite to interview" letter which has featured in many other recent threads.

Yes, that sounds fair. As I only received the notice yesterday I am thinking to wait until at least Tuesday before sending off a response just in case anything else is coming separately. I agree, it does seem odd that there was no cover letter.

 

[AlterEgo]

My opinion would be to
1) Acknowledge receipt of the letter
2) Accept you were in the wrong with an expired railcard
3) Note, gently, that you had not in fact entered a train when stopped, but were told by the RPI to continue the journey, therefore the summons is not correctly worded. Whilst still accepting that you had an expired railcard. I specifically would not say, at this point, that you will challenge the case.
4) List accurately every other trip you made with that expired railcard
5) Ask for an out of court settlement.

Chiltern seems to be in mid crackdown mode at the moment, it's possible they omitted to send you the "invite to interview" letter which has featured in many other recent threads.

I would do only 1 and 3 of these points in the OP's situation.

The OP is not guilty of an offence under Bylaw 17 or 18 as they did not board a train when stopped. Attending court and explaining, simply, that you cannot be guilty as, per the RPI's witness statement, they were at the station, and actually hadn't boarded a train. The charge fails at the very first hurdle, and it is extremely unlikely they will introduce the RPI as a witness for cross examination. They also are unlikely to be guilty of a Regulation of Railways Act 5 offence as I think their intent will be difficult to prove. This was an expired railcard.

It is important for people to realise when they have a valid defence, and I would personally not be paying Chiltern a penny. There's not much they can do in law about the 8 or 9 other tickets in their booking history with the expired railcard.

 

[FireAndHope]

I agree when I was reading the charge my instinct was this cannot be right as I had not entered a train or begun the journey when this happened—I also directly asked can I purchase the correct ticket but was not allowed to do so. It’s crazy because otherwise I could have simply just left the station and Chiltern would have lost no money. However I am worried about going down the above route in case I have the law wrong, my top priority is to avoid a criminal record even if I have to apologise and pay a settlement. I am torn over the best approach.

 

[pedr]

Since there are arguable points which might be able to convince a court that you’re not guilty of the offences charged - which is unusual in railway cases since usually the train companies charge people who have committed the offences - do you have the funds to pay for a solicitor to assist you? There may be technicalities or procedural approaches which could either help or hinder how a court views this case, so professional advice might help get a better outcome.

 

[FireAndHope]

Since there are arguable points which might be able to convince a court that you’re not guilty of the offences charged - which is unusual in railway cases since usually the train companies charge people who have committed the offences - do you have the funds to pay for a solicitor to assist you? There may be technicalities or procedural approaches which could either help or hinder how a court views this case, so professional advice might help get a better outcome.

I have contacted a solicitor but I don’t expect to hear back until sometime next week given the bank holiday. I do have savings to pay for one, although I don’t know the going rate so I’ll confirm that before I commit to anything.

 

[Hadders]

If Marylebone is a compulsory ticket area then it looks as though Chiltern have charged you with the wrong offence. They can of course correct this and issue a SJPN for the correct offence.

If you are going to rely on this then I think it is wise to get specialist advice.

 

[Haywain]

although I don’t know the going rate so I’ll confirm that before I commit to anything.

We have seen a number of cases in recent months where solicitors have charged in the region of £500 to £800.

 

[FireAndHope]

If Marylebone is a compulsory ticket area then it looks as though Chiltern have charged you with the wrong offence. They can of course correct this and issue a SJPN for the correct offence.

If you are going to rely on this then I think it is wise to get specialist advice.

I’m confused. Do we know for a fact (or is there a way to verify) if Marylebone is or is not a compulsory ticket area, and also what exactly this means in the context of bylaw 18. I want to make sure I am correctly articulating the issue when I speak to a solicitor.

Also are there any general thoughts on whether this is the best approach, i.e on balance, in my position, would it be better to simply apologise and hope for an offer of settlement or try and fight the basis of the charge?

 

[FireAndHope]

We have seen a number of cases in recent months where solicitors have charged in the region of £500 to £800.

Not beyond doable. Just means no holiday.

 

[Haywain]

Not beyond doable. Just means no holiday.

However, this is likely to be more than settling with Chiltern, and the solicitor may advise that settling is the best option which would add their fees on top of a settlement. If you allowed the case to go to court, it is possible that an appropriate argument would lead to a not guilty verdict, but you would still have to pay the solicitor so any victory would be somewhat hollow. It is also possible that the court would allow the prosecutor to submit an alternative (and correct) charge and you would then be found guilty. I think you need to have your initial discussion with the solicitor and then decide how to proceed.

 

[FireAndHope]

However, this is likely to be more than settling with Chiltern, and the solicitor may advise that settling is the best option which would add their fees on top of a settlement. If you allowed the case to go to court, it is possible that an appropriate argument would lead to a not guilty verdict, but you would still have to pay the solicitor so any victory would be somewhat hollow. It is also possible that the court would allow the prosecutor to submit an alternative (and correct) charge and you would then be found guilty. I think you need to have your initial discussion with the solicitor and then decide how to proceed.

Sensible. I will speak to them next week, and I’ll lay out the issues as discussed here. Number 1 priority is to avoid a record.

 

[island]

If Marylebone is a compulsory ticket area then it looks as though Chiltern have charged you with the wrong offence. They can of course correct this and issue a SJPN for the correct offence.

If they realise it in time, maybe. Also, there may not be a "correct offence". There is no penalty for breaching byelaw 17 of the National Rail Byelaws (see byelaw 24 (1)) other than that you can be removed from the railway by an authorised person.

If you are going to rely on this then I think it is wise to get specialist advice.

Agreed.

There was no covering letter. All I have is the following - the other pages after these are pictures of my ticket and railcard and statement of financial means document.

My suggestion would be to choose Plead Not Guilty and in the Because section of the form, you would enter:

1. Byelaw 18 applies only to stations without compulsory ticket areas. The station where the prosecutor alleges I boarded the train has a compulsory ticket area, and I beg to refer to the enclosed Chiltern Railways Penalty Fare leaflet identifying London Marylebone as a station with a compulsory ticket area.
2.1 In the alternative, I deny boarding a train without a valid ticket. I was spoken to by an authorised person prior to boarding the train. The prosecution has not provided any evidence that I boarded a train, and will be put to strict proof that I did so.
2.2 I did present a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when requested by an authorised person, as evidenced by the prosecution statement, an extract from which states "they produced an e-ticket".

You will enclose a colour print of the Chiltern Penalty Fares leaflet to support that Marylebone has a CTA.

I should be clear that this is a higher risk strategy and could go wrong. You may wish to instruct a solicitor.

 

[FireAndHope]

My suggestion would be to choose Plead Not Guilty and in the Because section of the form, you would enter:

1. Byelaw 18 applies only to stations without compulsory ticket areas. The station where the prosecutor alleges I boarded the train has a compulsory ticket area, and I beg to refer to the enclosed Chiltern Railways Penalty Fare leaflet identifying London Marylebone as a station with a compulsory ticket area.
2.1 In the alternative, I deny boarding a train without a valid ticket. I was spoken to by an authorised person prior to boarding the train. The prosecution has not provided any evidence that I boarded a train, and will be put to strict proof that I did so.
2.2 I did present a ticket for inspection and verification of validity when requested by an authorised person, as evidenced by the prosecution statement, an extract from which states "they produced an e-ticket".

You will enclose a colour print of the Chiltern Penalty Fares leaflet to support that Marylebone has a CTA.

Objectively what you say sounds correct, it’s a gamble though. As you say I will consult with a solicitor before making any moves. i suppose in a strict sense as I was stopped at the station and not on a train, I could claim that there is a burden on them to prove I entered the train. Also, as I laid out, I was prevented at the station by the attendant from 1) buying the correct ticket, and 2) leaving the station the way I came - leaving me the only choice but to get on the train with his say so. Every time I play it back in my mind I know a mistake was made here.

Now that I’ve read it again and again - you’re absolutely right. I’ve been charged for allegedly entering a train in a non-compulsory ticket area when I neither 1) entered a train, or 2) was in a non-compulsory ticket area. There’s no case here. Naturally I fear them re-charging me with something else but I could certainly put it to the magistrate that it is impossible for me to have contravened bylaw 18. I’ll dig into it some more.

 

[Hadders]

Objectively what you say sounds correct, it’s a gamble though.

There's also the potential for them to prosecute you under the Regulation of the Railways Act.

 

[FireAndHope]

There's also the potential for them to prosecute you under the Regulation of the Railways Act.

True but I can only work with the charge that’s been put in front of me. I’m hoping I have enough options (pleading for a settlement + disputing the charge) to help get a good solution. My thinking is in first instance to take responsibility and beg for forgiveness, demonstrate everything I’ve done to make it right, if after a few attempts no settlement is offered I can take my chances with the magistrate on the basis that the charge as given is wrong (at which point deploy the solicitor). If you or anyone have any suggestions on the phrasing of an email to Chiltern I would much appreciate that - I suggested a draft in response 8.

 

[AlterEgo]

There's also the potential for them to prosecute you under the Regulation of the Railways Act.

They could do that - that’s a risk - but the law there requires intent, which for a recently expired railcard would be very difficult to prove.