Caught using a leisure card for residential travel

[A_95]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate the advice of forum members on this one as I’m kind of freaking out. I’ve never been in trouble with the law and I just want some guidance on the best way to solve this without affecting my job and or going to court.

Essentially, my rail industry workplace offers flexible season tickets with a 75% subsidy which I used to use to get to and from work.

Since the start of 2023 I have had access to a rail online leisure card which provides us with a 75% discount on fares to use for travel which is not residential. Foolishly, I have been using said card for my 2 to 3 journeys per month to my place of work and today I was caught by a member of revenue protection for GA (plain clothes).

I realise ignorance is not an excuse, but until now I did not realise the implications and difference between me using a 75% discount flexi ticket and a 75% discount leisure ticket to buy the same fare. I still do not fully understand how these differ but I am trying to educate myself on the matter.

I have used the leisure card for journeys made between Prittlewell and Stratford probably a sum total of 28 times and in my estimations I probably now owe the rail company approx £621.00 and I genuinely feel terrible and anxious about it all.

I have worked in the industry for the past 9 years and have given everything I can to make it a better place - the last thing I’d want to do when looking at it in the round is commit some sort of offence in some way. I just really want to be able to sort this out without court action, and also without involving my employer if at all possible.

When I spoke to the RP guy at the station, he asked me some basic questions regarding my journey and if I’d ever done this previously. I was completely candid with him on the situation and had my leisure card confiscated but nothing issued to myself. He just said Greater Anglia would be in touch and to provide them with the same account I provided him to get the best outcome.

Any help would be appreciated as I’m finding the whole thing very stressful, and want to show that I have definitely learnt from and am sorry for the situation. Would it be best to tell them the whole truth regarding the fact this was the result of ignorant action or should I go about this a different way? The change from me for flexi to leisure discount happened as I was no longer required to work in the office as much so did not need 10 tickets in a 28 day period - essentially they would be wasted.

Thank you in advance for your guidance.

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate the advice of forum members on this one as I’m kind of freaking out. I’ve never been in trouble with the law and I just want some guidance on the best way to solve this without affecting my job and or going to court.

Essentially, my rail industry workplace offers flexible season tickets with a 75% subsidy which I used to use to get to and from work.

Since the start of 2023 I have had access to a rail online leisure card which provides us with a 75% discount on fares to use for travel which is not residential. Foolishly, I have been using said card for my 2 to 3 journeys per month to my place of work and today I was caught by a member of revenue protection for GA (plain clothes).

I realise ignorance is not an excuse, but until now I did not realise the implications and difference between me using a 75% discount flexi ticket and a 75% discount leisure ticket to buy the same fare. I still do not fully understand how these differ but I am trying to educate myself on the matter.

I have used the leisure card for journeys made between Prittlewell and Stratford probably a sum total of 28 times and in my estimations I probably now owe the rail company approx £621.00 and I genuinely feel terrible and anxious about it all.

I have worked in the industry for the past 9 years and have given everything I can to make it a better place - the last thing I’d want to do when looking at it in the round is commit some sort of offence in some way. I just really want to be able to sort this out without court action, and also without involving my employer if at all possible.

When I spoke to the RP guy at the station, he asked me some basic questions regarding my journey and if I’d ever done this previously. I was completely candid with him on the situation and had my leisure card confiscated but nothing issued to myself. He just said Greater Anglia would be in touch and to provide them with the same account I provided him to get the best outcome.

Any help would be appreciated as I’m finding the whole thing very stressful, and want to show that I have definitely learnt from and am sorry for the situation. Would it be best to tell them the whole truth regarding the fact this was the result of ignorant action or should I go about this a different way? The change from me for flexi to leisure discount happened as I was no longer required to work in the office as much so did not need 10 tickets in a 28 day period - essentially they would be wasted.

Thank you in advance for your guidance.

My first question is - do you have a union rep?

This is a serious matter. Misusing your travel facilities is one of the quickest ways to lose your job - this is a no messing around area and commuting to work on a leisure ticket is really bad news. It is really clear that the Network Rail discount card for staff is not for duty or residential travel, and only for leisure journeys.

Your employer will almost certainly be told of the travel irregularities in due course, so you will want to try and get ahead of this by being proactive.

 

[A_95]

Hi,

Thanks for your response. I don’t have a union rep no. Will they be notified following the letter I am provided by GA or beforehand?

Thanks

 

[AlterEgo]

Hi,

Thanks for your response. I don’t have a union rep no. Will they be notified following the letter I am provided by GA or beforehand?

Thanks

They will probably be notified internally, by email. You should aim to get ahead of this matter and proactively speak to your line manager and let them know what has happened.

 

[A_95]

Thanks for your advice.

I will try to do that, hard to speculate but do we think that’ll make a difference? I’ve never put a foot wrong in the company and have in fact celebrated a few good news stories owing to work I’ve done during my time there - do with think that’ll help?
Also, When you say internally emailed do you mean by Greater Anglia Revenue protection or RST? Just trying to get an understanding of the process.

Aside from the employer perspective can anybody shed light on the GA matters and what I can expect?

Thanks in advance.

 

[357]

Be prepared to get your P45 over this and anything less is getting off lightly.

Former union rep.

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks for your advice.

I will try to do that, hard to speculate but do we think that’ll make a difference? I’ve never put a foot wrong in the company and have in fact celebrated a few good news stories owing to work I’ve done during my time there - do with think that’ll help?

Misuse of travel facilities is very serious and it can lead to a gross misconduct allegation and dismissal without notice. At best, you will probably lose the travel facility for some period of time, but at worst, you can lose your job. In any case it is a disciplinary matter.

This is why being honest and proactive and staying ahead of the nasty email is imperative. You should tell your line manager about your screw up before they discover it themselves. I am sure they will appreciate that, and it will make them (or whoever conducts the disciplinary which will probably arise from this) less inclined to think you did it dishonestly.

You should check the terms and conditions of your pass and any paperwork you signed when being granted the travel facilities, because if the terms are unclear, this is in your favour. If you have signed to say you understand they are for leisure travel only and not for residential/duty/work travel this will work against you.

Also, When you say internally emailed do you mean by Greater Anglia Revenue protection or RST? Just trying to get an understanding of the process.

Aside from the employer perspective can anybody shed light on the GA matters and what I can expect?

It's not clear whether GA will treat this as a criminal offence. Your pass was not valid for the journeys you have been making and you are, at the very least, likely guilty of a Bylaw offence:

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas​

1. in any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel

- on each occasion.

However, GA may prefer to settle the matter without recourse to the courts, or they may view that reporting the misuse is sufficient not to threaten court action in the first place.

Cases involving misuse of travel facilities are fairly rare to see on the forum and it is not certain what action GA will take, but you should certainly assume they will report the irregularity internally, as they are bound to do so.

I don't know if RST or GA will email, but do not assume this will go away. Misuse of travel facilities is really, really bad news and as I said, one of the ways to speedrun getting fired. Staying ahead of proceedings and being open and honest will only work in your favour.

 

[A_95]

Thanks all for the frank answers. It doesn’t sounds like good news and I’m genuinely very worried

I do not intend to do anything but comply and be transparent like I was with the guy who stopped me and like I said, although it doesn’t mean much, my naivety between the 75% discount on flexi and 75% leisure discount (I assumed the TOC is still getting the same revenue from both of these) has landed me in hot water. I just want to take the best course of action to make it right and show that I genuinely do feel terrible for doing it.

When it came to getting our leisure cards there was never anything to sign to say we understood the conditions of carriage or anything.

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before, but does anybody know when I may expect to hear from NR regarding this? I just want to make sure I get ahead of the curve and be as proactive as possible.

Thanks

Thanks all for the frank answers. It doesn’t sounds like good news and I’m genuinely very worried

I do not intend to do anything but comply and be transparent like I was with the guy who stopped me and like I said, although it doesn’t mean much, my naivety between the 75% discount on flexi and 75% leisure discount (I assumed the TOC is still getting the same revenue from both of these) has landed me in hot water. I just want to take the best course of action to make it right and show that I genuinely do feel terrible for doing it.

When it came to getting our leisure cards there was never anything to sign to say we understood the conditions of carriage or anything.

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before, but does anybody know when I may expect to hear from NR regarding this? I just want to make sure I get ahead of the curve and be as proactive as possible.

Thanks

Just to add to this. I am actually leaving NR in the next month or so in any event - I’m not sure if this would make a difference.

Thanks as always

 

[AlterEgo]

Thanks all for the frank answers. It doesn’t sounds like good news and I’m genuinely very worried

I do not intend to do anything but comply and be transparent like I was with the guy who stopped me and like I said, although it doesn’t mean much, my naivety between the 75% discount on flexi and 75% leisure discount (I assumed the TOC is still getting the same revenue from both of these) has landed me in hot water. I just want to take the best course of action to make it right and show that I genuinely do feel terrible for doing it.

When it came to getting our leisure cards there was never anything to sign to say we understood the conditions of carriage or anything.

Apologies if this has been asked a million times before, but does anybody know when I may expect to hear from NR regarding this? I just want to make sure I get ahead of the curve and be as proactive as possible.

Thanks

You should not wait to hear from your employer about this. You should see your line manager first thing tomorrow. Do not let them confront you about this, because it will look like you aren’t taking it seriously.

 

[A_95]

Thanks for the advice. My next working day is Tuesday so I will speak to them then. As I said in my previous post, I am leaving NR within the next few weeks and thus will have to have my card revoked at that time, I’m not sure if that will make any difference in that regard?

I assume that investigation however it may play out will run parallel to the one carried out by Greater Anglia? Or will it be treated as one case?

I want to stress that I am not a rule breaker, I’ve always tried to put my best foot forward but in this case I know I’ve screwed up and want to do what I can to make it right. I really do hope that will be out of the court with GA when I can demonstrate how I wouldn’t dare travel with irregularity again.


Thanks for the help.

 

[Hadders]

I am not, and have never been, employed by the railway so I rarely comment on cases involving staff travel.

You should not wait to hear from your employer about this. You should see your line manager first thing tomorrow. Do not let them confront you about this, because it will look like you aren’t taking it seriously.

I absolutely agree with this. Misuse of staff travel facilities is taken very seriously. Being proactive about the situation is the best way to deal with this.

 

[Adam Williams]

As I said in my previous post, I am leaving NR within the next few weeks and thus will have to have my card revoked at that time

I assume you're not planning to e.g. work at a TOC after this or another entity that has an agreement with RST?

 

[A_95]

I assume you're not planning to e.g. work at a TOC after this or another entity that has an agreement with RST?

No I’m not going anywhere where those facilities are available to employees

 

[Adam Williams]

No I’m not going anywhere where those facilities are available to employees

If the employer knows you're nearly out the door and you've done good work in your time with NR, I am not really sure how much appetite there's going to be for the worst-case outlined above of a gross misconduct investigation and dismissal. Frankly, what purpose does it serve, and would it even be completed by the time you're due to finish and hand back your staff travel facilities? It seems like a complete waste of everyone's time.

If you're leaving the industry and not intending to come back then to be frank I'm not sure how much any of this actually matters.

With all of that about the staff travel facilities said and aside, the focus IMO has got to be on avoiding a prosecution and working with the TOC on a settlement if they contact you to say that they are pursuing a case. That's what's crucial here

 

[Bletchleyite]

If you're leaving the industry and not intending to come back then to be frank I'm not sure how much any of this actually matters.

The one way in which it realistically could is that a reference may be refused, which you'd likely have to explain to your new employer.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thanks for the advice. My next working day is Tuesday so I will speak to them then. As I said in my previous post, I am leaving NR within the next few weeks and thus will have to have my card revoked at that time, I’m not sure if that will make any difference in that regard?

I assume that investigation however it may play out will run parallel to the one carried out by Greater Anglia? Or will it be treated as one case?

I want to stress that I am not a rule breaker, I’ve always tried to put my best foot forward but in this case I know I’ve screwed up and want to do what I can to make it right. I really do hope that will be out of the court with GA when I can demonstrate how I wouldn’t dare travel with irregularity again.


Thanks for the help.

There might be grounds for contacting your line manager tomorrow even if tues is your next working day.

If you are leaving this job soon anyway you do want to leave with a clean record of course, thinking of future references etc.

 

[Adam Williams]

The one way in which it realistically could is that a reference may be refused, which you'd likely have to explain to your new employer.

It's a risk but - presumably OP already has received an offer somewhere (so has this process already been completed?), and additionally a lot of organisations are rightly pretty risk averse when it comes to what might be said (or not said) in an employment reference. Many will stick to confirming dates and job title. I would suggest that refusing to provide a reference at all over this would be entirely unreasonable on Network Rail's part, and potentially open them up to constructive dismissal liability themselves. I would be quite surprised if this was an outcome.

 

[AlterEgo]

It's a risk but - presumably OP already has received an offer somewhere (so has this process already been completed?), and additionally a lot of organisations are rightly pretty risk averse when it comes to what might be said (or not said) in an employment reference. Many will stick to confirming dates and job title. I would suggest that refusing to provide a reference at all over this would be entirely unreasonable on Network Rail's part, and potentially open them up to constructive dismissal liability themselves. I would be quite surprised if this was an outcome.

It wouldn't be unfair or uncommon for a reference to state that the employee left the company during a gross misconduct disciplinary. I'd want to avoid that if I could.

 

[bramling]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate the advice of forum members on this one as I’m kind of freaking out. I’ve never been in trouble with the law and I just want some guidance on the best way to solve this without affecting my job and or going to court.

Essentially, my rail industry workplace offers flexible season tickets with a 75% subsidy which I used to use to get to and from work.

Since the start of 2023 I have had access to a rail online leisure card which provides us with a 75% discount on fares to use for travel which is not residential. Foolishly, I have been using said card for my 2 to 3 journeys per month to my place of work and today I was caught by a member of revenue protection for GA (plain clothes).

I realise ignorance is not an excuse, but until now I did not realise the implications and difference between me using a 75% discount flexi ticket and a 75% discount leisure ticket to buy the same fare. I still do not fully understand how these differ but I am trying to educate myself on the matter.

I have used the leisure card for journeys made between Prittlewell and Stratford probably a sum total of 28 times and in my estimations I probably now owe the rail company approx £621.00 and I genuinely feel terrible and anxious about it all.

I have worked in the industry for the past 9 years and have given everything I can to make it a better place - the last thing I’d want to do when looking at it in the round is commit some sort of offence in some way. I just really want to be able to sort this out without court action, and also without involving my employer if at all possible.

When I spoke to the RP guy at the station, he asked me some basic questions regarding my journey and if I’d ever done this previously. I was completely candid with him on the situation and had my leisure card confiscated but nothing issued to myself. He just said Greater Anglia would be in touch and to provide them with the same account I provided him to get the best outcome.

Any help would be appreciated as I’m finding the whole thing very stressful, and want to show that I have definitely learnt from and am sorry for the situation. Would it be best to tell them the whole truth regarding the fact this was the result of ignorant action or should I go about this a different way? The change from me for flexi to leisure discount happened as I was no longer required to work in the office as much so did not need 10 tickets in a 28 day period - essentially they would be wasted.

Thank you in advance for your guidance.

The best advice is to try and get this sorted with GA ASAP.

Make an accurate total of how many journeys, work out the fare using the full undiscounted rate, and offer to settle. You will also need to allow them to add an administration fee.

Personally I wouldn’t raise it with your own employer just yet, unless you have a particularly good relationship with your immediate management team.

 

[furlong]

My understanding is the following:

From what we've seen before on the forum, you should definitely try to negotiate a settlement directly with GA - they'll probably settle with you for a payment taking all the fares back up to the public fare.
RSTL will get informed, and from there your employer. That may take a little time to work its way through the system.
RSTL gets to decide any sanctions in respect of travel facilities - i.e. how long you lose them for. If you're leaving the industry anyway, this isn't going to concern you. It would be relevant if you ever returned to the industry.
Your employer gets to decide any sanctions in terms of disciplinary action. If they know you are leaving shortly then they might take it no further than a conversation about what would have happened if you weren't leaving.
If you're on good terms with your manager, give them a heads up about what happened, but they need not do anything until they hear formally via RSTL.

 

[A_95]

Thank you all so much for the advice!

In terms of the thoughts around referencing, I was already given a positive reference and have finished my onboarding process to the new company.

Does anybody know if I can get ahead of this and have a contact for GA to settle with them before it goes further? Or do I have to wait for a letter of some sort? I wasn’t asked by the RPO for phone or email address. If I am transparent with all the rationale I’ve outlined here, in experience are GA generally agreeable to an out of court settlement?

I do have a good relationship with my manager so I think it may mention it and just explain that I’m not sure what the recourse will be with me leaving the business and all - but I don’t really want to make a big deal of it until I square away with GA.

Thanks all.

 

[Snow1964]

I want to stress that I am not a rule breaker, I’ve always tried to put my best foot forward but in this case I know I’ve screwed up and want to do what I can to make it right. I really do hope that will be out of the court with GA when I can demonstrate how I wouldn’t dare travel with irregularity again.

This is one of those rules that normally sits there in the background, might have no intention of breaking it, but not checking its terms and conditions means you can.

Sometimes have to be careful when saving money, what is unfortunate is they didn't catch you and explain it with a token warning first time, but have allowed it to become big thing before stopping you.

 

[Haywain]

This is one of those rules that normally sits there in the background, might have no intention of breaking it, but not checking its terms and conditions means you can.

The rules about use of the RST Online Leisure Card are pretty clear with a major clue in the name. It's far from being hidden in the terms and conditions.

 

[A_95]

The rules about use of the RST Online Leisure Card are pretty clear with a major clue in the name. It's far from being hidden in the terms and conditions.

100% and I completely own that it’s my screw up and ignorance that got me in this situation - but everybody makes mistakes and I just want to put this right.

@Hadders or anybody else - do you know if there’s anyway to reach out to GA or do I have to wait for them to send me something first?

Thank you

Just as an update from the suggestions above - I have counted 13 travel irregularities against GA with a total cost owed to them £340 plus whatever the administration costs on top are.




I hope all had a great bank holiday.

I am still massively stressing and the more I think about it, the more I am ashamed of my actions and I’m just hoping I can resolve this in the ‘least-worse’ way.

Just a couple of questions from me if somebody could offer advice?
- From reading other posts, it seems most have received something as acknowledgment from the RPI who stopped them; in my situation, all I did was answer some questions (RPI said it wasn’t obligatory, but he did state the date and time of questioning before asking some basic questions), and the. He asked me to sign his note book so that no more additons could be made. Should I have received something at this time to lodge that this transaction took place?
- The RPI asked for me to show my leisure card (I had it in a ticket wallet) whereby he then removed it from the wallet and kept hold of it. Is this the correct procedure?

All of this broadly speaking is arguing semantics, I’m bang to rights in what I did wrong - but knowing answers to these sorts of silly questions will help a little in my mind.

Thanks for the continued help!

 

[Haywain]

Should I have received something at this time to lodge that this transaction took place?

There is no obligation to provide you with any paperwork at that point.

The RPI asked for me to show my leisure card (I had it in a ticket wallet) whereby he then removed it from the wallet and kept hold of it. Is this the correct procedure?

Yes, confiscation of the card is normal.

 

[jumble]

Hi all,

I’d really appreciate the advice of forum members on this one as I’m kind of freaking out. I’ve never been in trouble with the law and I just want some guidance on the best way to solve this without affecting my job and or going to court.

Essentially, my rail industry workplace offers flexible season tickets with a 75% subsidy which I used to use to get to and from work.

Since the start of 2023 I have had access to a rail online leisure card which provides us with a 75% discount on fares to use for travel which is not residential. Foolishly, I have been using said card for my 2 to 3 journeys per month to my place of work and today I was caught by a member of revenue protection for GA (plain clothes).

I realise ignorance is not an excuse, but until now I did not realise the implications and difference between me using a 75% discount flexi ticket and a 75% discount leisure ticket to buy the same fare. I still do not fully understand how these differ but I am trying to educate myself on the matter.

I have used the leisure card for journeys made between Prittlewell and Stratford probably a sum total of 28 times and in my estimations I probably now owe the rail company approx £621.00 and I genuinely feel terrible and anxious about it all.

I have worked in the industry for the past 9 years and have given everything I can to make it a better place - the last thing I’d want to do when looking at it in the round is commit some sort of offence in some way. I just really want to be able to sort this out without court action, and also without involving my employer if at all possible.

When I spoke to the RP guy at the station, he asked me some basic questions regarding my journey and if I’d ever done this previously. I was completely candid with him on the situation and had my leisure card confiscated but nothing issued to myself. He just said Greater Anglia would be in touch and to provide them with the same account I provided him to get the best outcome.

Any help would be appreciated as I’m finding the whole thing very stressful, and want to show that I have definitely learnt from and am sorry for the situation. Would it be best to tell them the whole truth regarding the fact this was the result of ignorant action or should I go about this a different way? The change from me for flexi to leisure discount happened as I was no longer required to work in the office as much so did not need 10 tickets in a 28 day period - essentially they would be wasted.

Thank you in advance for your guidance.

The 75% looks on the face of it to be the same for flexi or season
I suppose that one would need to understand how much revenue goes to GA under ORCATS ( revenue allocation for non TOC specific tickets ) for each option
Good luck anyway

 

[skyhigh]

The 75% looks on the face of it to be the same for flexi or season
I suppose that one would need to understand how much revenue goes to GA under ORCATS ( revenue allocation for non TOC specific tickets ) for each option
Good luck anyway

I honestly don't understand what you mean or how this is relevant?

A 75% discount for leisure travel only is nothing like a season ticket? And what relevance does ORCATS have?