Central line from Leyton (ex ECR/GER) for Crossrail 2

[BahrainLad]

Reading through some of the various proposals for Crossrail 2 that have come up over the last couple of years decades, I was interested to see one variant which had a branch from Dalston heading (presumably in tunnel) east to Leyton and then up the Central line to Epping. In fact I think this route is still safeguarded.

Notwithstanding the need to (presumably) have joint running of CR2 / Central line from Leyton to Leytonstone, to what extent is the Leyton-Epping line built to 'main line' gauge? Some of the bridges e.g. under the Green Man Interchange look quite tight even for tube stock. And I presume any (unlikely) use for CR2 services would involve adding OHLE?

 

[Mojo]

Well as you say in your subject, the line between Leyton & Epping was originally built for what now we would refer to as ‘Main Line trains,’ so most of the line would be suitable.

I’m not sure what modifications were made as part of the M11 Link Road construction in the 1990s (now the A12) which includes the Green Man Interchange is certainly one of them, and also whether any new bridges were constructed; the level crossing replacement at South Woodford is one that springs to mind, although it looks taller than for Tube stocks I’m not actually sure how high it is.

 

[BahrainLad]

From a quick look at the NLS side by side viewer, the westbound slip road of the Green Man -> A12 interchange looks like it was built post 1947, as does the new extension of the A114 Whipps Cross road. Both go over the line as does a new footbridge.

 

[Bald Rick]

I was interested to see one variant which had a branch from Dalston heading (presumably in tunnel) east to Leyton and then up the Central line to Epping. In fact I think this route is still safeguarded.

It’s not safeguarded.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

While there may have been other similar proposals, the one I remember taking a route via Dalston and Leyton wouldn't have been full heavy rail - it was the "Chelney" (portmanteau of Chelsea and Hackney) Line. As well as replacing the Central Line from Leytonstone to Epping (leaving the existing line to serve only the Hainault Loop), at its southern end the District Line would have been curtailed at Putney Bridge (I think? Maybe Fulham Broadway?), and Chelney would also have taken over the line south of there to Wimbledon. Think more Grand Paris Express: modern, higher-capacity, Tube lines.

 

[Dstock7080]

at its southern end the District Line would have been curtailed at Putney Bridge (I think? Maybe Fulham Broadway?), and Chelney would also have taken over the line south of there to Wimbledon.

Parsons Green

 

[Blurb]

I think the key reason for the proposals to integrate Epping to Leyton into the Chelsea-Hackney (or Crossrail 2) line was to address capacity / overcrowding issues on the Central Line. I.e. crowding in the outer section in rush hours. We will have to see what the situation is post-COVID and Crossrail 1 to understand extent of crowding going forward. I think the bridges are fine for main line size trains, but probably not for overhead electrification. If OHLE used then it’s likely all the footbridges would need replacement- e.g. at Snaresbrook, Woodford - these date from before the Central Line arrived and are likely to be too low to allow OHLE.

 

[rebmcr]

I think the bridges are fine for main line size trains, but probably not for overhead electrification.

With the current trend at the DfT to 'downgrade' long-term investment into short-term savings (e.g. bi-modes in place of full electrification; rumoured cancellation of HS2 to Yorkshire; etc), I would be unsurprised to see CR2 stock running on third-rail supplies south of Clapham — even though upgrading the lines there to OHLE would be the ideal start to doing so all across the Southern Region.

 

[Bald Rick]

I would be unsurprised to see CR2 stock running on third-rail supplies south of Clapham — even though upgrading the lines there to OHLE would be the ideal start to doing so all across the Southern Region.

No need to be surprised, it was always planned as using the third rail south of Wimbledon (not Clapham). Putting up the OLE would cause no end of issues.

 

[rebmcr]

No need to be surprised, it was always planned as using the third rail south of Wimbledon (not Clapham). Putting up the OLE would cause no end of issues.

With axle counters continuing to replace track circuits, those issues are halved (electrolytic corrosion would still have to be mitigated, but the signalling interference 'goes away'), which makes dual voltage electrification a little less of a no-go in larger areas than the existing Thameslink core and WLL installations.

 

[Bald Rick]

With axle counters continuing to replace track circuits, those issues are halved (electrolytic corrosion would still have to be mitigated, but the signalling interference 'goes away'), which makes dual voltage electrification a little less of a no-go in larger areas than the existing Thameslink core and WLL installations.

No doubt. No plans for axle counters at Wimbledon anytime soon.

 

[rebmcr]

No doubt. No plans for axle counters at Wimbledon anytime soon.

With the recent resignalling there, I'm sure it will be due for renewal by the time CR2 arrives!

 

[Bald Rick]

With the recent resignalling there, I'm sure it will be due for renewal by the time CR2 arrives!

Recent? 1989!

 

[rebmcr]

Recent? 1989!

2017's Waterloo Area Resignalling Scheme covered Wimbledon, did it not?

 

[Bald Rick]

2017's Waterloo Area Resignalling Scheme covered Wimbledon, did it not?

No. That project ‘just’ remodelled two parts of Waterloo itself, and retained / amended the existing signalling system. It is still the 1988/9 vintage equipment out to Berrylands.

 

[EllieAquitrain]

Parsons Green

Haha of course it was the one inbetween!