Change of travel plans help please (Luton, Horsham, Brighton)

[sliver]

Hi all

One again I begin a thread by apologising for my ticketing / fares naivety. Now that's out of the way here is my question.

I have a standard anytime day return for Friday 5th Sep from Luton to Horsham £38.80 (I was intending to travel out peak approx 7am and return the same day leaving around 3pm)

My plans have now changed and I need to travel
Fri 5/9 Luton to Horsham (off peak 09:34)
Horsham to Brighton (approx 4pm)
Sun 7/9 Brighton to Luton (around lunchtime)

Is there anything I can do with my existing ticket to reflect my new travel plans. I think a Luton - Brighton standard off peak return might meet my needs but I don't know if it allows break on the outward portion. If it does could I "exchange" my existing ticket at the ticket office less the £10 admin fee? Any other suggestions please?

 

[LexyBoy]

BoJ is permitted on a Luton-Brighton Off Peak Return (£35.10).

If you're lucky you might find a clerk willing to do an overdistance excess to the Off Peak Return, which would cost you nothing. I believe you should be entitled to this (provided you obtain it before boarding), but I think things are a bit vague when the ticket type is also requested to be changed.

More likely however you'd be looking at a refund (less £10) and new ticket, which would cost you £6.30.

In future I would suggest not buying walk-up tickets until the day of travel (or when travel plans are concrete), or buying using Southern's website and only collecting before travel.

 

[tom3107]

I had a similar issue a few weeks back in that I needed a day single excessed to a period return (though not the over distance aspect). I tried 3 main stations in London, all of them refused to sell it either because they weren't allowed to, it wasn't possible, or they didn't know how to. In the end I got it from an RPI onboard who issued it as if it was a standard request.

My advice is to try and get it from on-board staff as this is most likely to work! FCC RPI's are surprisingly good at issuing excesses. I would also suggest asking the gateline staff at Luton - poke your head inside the little office next to the gateline (platform side) and ask there. If not, just try at every opportunity!!

 

[LexyBoy]

Are RPIs common on FCC Brighton services? My experience of the central routes is that 95% of the time there won't be any onboard staff.

If you start the journey and then are not able to get an excess, it'll end up quite expensive as you'll need a whole new ticket beyond Horsham.

 

[sliver]

Thanks for the (as usual) prompt and thorough replies.

I'll sort it all out before travelling by mentioning the possibility of an excess to the gateline staff, and if necessary going to the ticket office; if it comes down to having to loose the £10 and pay the £6odd difference then that is a completely acceptable solution to me.

 

[LexyBoy]

You don't have to lose the £10 and pay £6 - the Luton-Brighton Off Peak Return is cheaper than the ticket held so you lose £10 in the refund (get £28.80 back) and then pay £35.10 for the new ticket, a net cost of £6.30.

 

[sliver]

You don't have to lose the £10 and pay £6 - the Luton-Brighton Off Peak Return is cheaper than the ticket held so you lose £10 in the refund (get £28.80 back) and then pay £35.10 for the new ticket, a net cost of £6.30.

Sorry, you have lost me now
I parted with £38.80 and I get a refund of £28.80 so I have lost £10.
I then buy a ticket for £35.10 so I use my refund and pay the £6.30 difference.
Haven't I lost £10 and paid £6ish which is what I said in the first place or is this just down to interpretation of writing style?
PS Not trying to be inflamatory I was just confused

 

[bb21]

Just the way you are looking at it.

What has happened is that you originally paid £38.80, but the refund (£28.80) and the purchase of the new ticket (£35.10) cost you another £6.30 net, so you paid a total of £45.10

Another way of looking at it is that your original purchase and the refund cost you £10 net. This added to your new purchase of £35.10 totals £45.10

Where you are getting confused is that you counted your £28.80 twice, once for the £10 net cost of your original purchase and then refund, and then again at your £6.30 net cost of the new transaction. Adding these two sums up means nothing. You purchased two tickets in separate transactions but only had one refund (£38.80 + £35.10 - £28.80 = £45.10). Adding the two sums up your way means two refunds (£38.80 - £28.80 + £35.10 - £28.80 = £16.30) which is clearly nonsense. Even if you were to have another refund, you will only get £25.10 back for your second ticket, so the net cost in that case would be £20 - the cost of the two administration charges (£38.80 - £28.80 + £35.10 - £25.10 = £20).

If you consider the original £38.80 as already paid and a sunk cost, then doing an excess will cost you nothing, whereas a refund and repurchase will cost you £6.30 (£35.10 - £28.80), so you "lose" £6.30 which can otherwise be avoided.

It is a good paradox though, and one which I suspect many people will get confused by.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Sorry, you have lost me now
I parted with £38.80 and I get a refund of £28.80 so I have lost £10.
I then buy a ticket for £35.10 so I use my refund and pay the £6.30 difference.
Haven't I lost £10 and paid £6ish which is what I said in the first place or is this just down to interpretation of writing style?
PS Not trying to be inflamatory I was just confused

It would be worth pointing out that if you go down the refund route and you apply for it from a company that did not sell you the ticket, you will have to pay out for the new ticket before getting the refund.

I would go to the ticket office first and see what they say (they might do the excess, they might offer to sell a ticket to cover the part of the journey not already covered, or they might offer the refund). Regardless of what they offer, after you board a train there are precious few options available to you.

 

[LexyBoy]

Sorry if I was confusing! I was thinking that you are only "losing" £6.30 to change the ticket you hold to the one you need - I had read your post as if you were thinking you'd be £16.30 down. Looking at it another way, you are £10 out of pocket compared to having bought the Luton-Brighton ticket in the first place.

I would go to the ticket office first and see what they say (they might do the excess, they might offer to sell a ticket to cover the part of the journey not already covered, or they might offer the refund). Regardless of what they offer, after you board a train there are precious few options available to you.

A new ticket to cover Horsham-Brighton is the most expensive (SVR is £21!) option - and it would be the only one guaranteed after boarding from Luton.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
edit: hang on, having looked at a map (!) I can't see Luton-Brighton being valid via Horsham (not by any reasonable route to continue to Brighton anyway) - you'd need a Three Bridges-Horsham Off Peak Day Return (£5.00) in addition to the LUT-BTN ticket.

 

[yorkie]

I tried 3 main stations in London...

In London? If they were south of the river, there's more chance of pigs flying than getting that excess fare issued at a ticket office. Excesses do not appear to be included in any official mystery shopping, so they can get away with it.

Some of the staff at Marylebone and King's Cross are very good.

 

[Abpj17]

I wouldn't leave it to an FCC RPI

 

[bb21]

edit: hang on, having looked at a map (!) I can't see Luton-Brighton being valid via Horsham (not by any reasonable route to continue to Brighton anyway) - you'd need a Three Bridges-Horsham Off Peak Day Return (£5.00) in addition to the LUT-BTN ticket.

You are right, however it certainly used to be valid via Horsham so it may have to come down to the Disputed Routeing Procedure if the OP has any appetite for that.

I think refunding then purchasing the new ticket at a net cost of £6.30 may just be the easiest option of all if an excess cannot be obtained.

 

[Haywain]

I have a standard anytime day return for Friday 5th Sep from Luton to Horsham £38.80 (I was intending to travel out peak approx 7am and return the same day leaving around

Where was the ticket originally purchased? If it was online, there is no way you can avoid the admin charge on a refund, which might be possible at a station.

 

[sliver]

The ticket was indeed purchased online.

I settled for buying a brand new ticket and will pursue a refund of the original through the vendor.
The ticket offices at Blackfriars, St Pancras and Luton were all very apologetic that they couldnlt help but all insisted that it had to be refunded with the original seller. I also had a very helpful "Train Manager" on the fast St Pancras to Corby train who tried to help but couldn't (although he did try to call ahead to Luton to ask them to change the ticket without the admin fee, which they were happy to do until they realised it was online ticket printed from a corporate kiosk printer rather than TVM)

 

[Haywain]

Some TOCs might waive the admin fee on refunding a ticket which they sold, and doing so in advance of the date of travel. I believe that all of the online outlets charge an admin fee regardless. I doubt where it was printed had any bearing on the matter.