Changing Off-Peak tickets pre-bought

[emoaconr]

I can't remember the rules exactly, I know you can exchange an Advance for £10 or Anytime for an excess, but what are the rules for exchanging an Off-Peak ticket (pre-bought) for a different date?

The silly auto-fill on the Arriva website strikes again...

 

[First class]

I believe it's a case of applying for a refund (with admin fee) and buying a new ticket.

 

[yorkie]

Expect to be charged a £10 admin fee, but if you get someone who is understanding and has good moral values then they may waive the charge. There are many good ticket office staff out there so there is hope! Give it a try.

It's absurd that it should cost £10 for that, but this is the rip-off UK rail industry, so you have to expect it!

My advice is not to buy a walk-on ticket until the time of travel unless there is a very good reason to do so (for example to avoid hassle, as in the Stansted - Portsmouth topic)

 

[transportphoto]

Probally cheaper to buy another ticket forgetting the fact that you had already purchased! (in some cases)

Just one way to avoid the £10.00 rip-off admin charge!

 

[emoaconr]

Expect to be charged a £10 admin fee, but if you get someone who is understanding and has good moral values then they may waive the charge. There are many good ticket office staff out there so there is hope! Give it a try.

It's absurd that it should cost £10 for that, but this is the rip-off UK rail industry, so you have to expect it!

My advice is not to buy a walk-on ticket until the time of travel unless there is a very good reason to do so (for example to avoid hassle, as in the Stansted - Portsmouth topic)

Thank you for all your advice.
I went to the station and enquired, and was spoken to extremely rudely by the member of staff, who refused to even discuss the topic because the ATW website is not part of Arriva (I presume she means thetrainline). I rang up their helpline and spoke to some overseas call attendant, who told me I have to cancel my ticket at £10, be refunded, and purchase a new one. I told her I couldn't afford that, but she insisted that I cancel. I refused to cancel (since £10 is more than I paid for the ticket!), and then went and collected my tickets, and spoke to a nicer member of staff at the station.

She told me that (if I was doing open return), the return would be valid if I bought a single, but apart from that, they're not allowed to refund them. At least she attempted to explain the policy and did look over my tickets.

I'll probably not travel now.

Only reason I pre-bought it was because I purchased some Advance tickets at the same time, and it was just convenient, probably won't do so again!

I don't understand how this fare was only £9.20 this time, when the same off-peak ticket was previously £12 last year!

 

[323235]

How the Rail industry can even think about charging a £10 admin fee to refund a ticket which costs less than that is beyond me. Complete Farce.

I've heard similar stories, where someone bought a ticket to Birmingham then found out that the train was replaced by a bus, which arrived too late for when they needed to be there. They tried to get a refund,only to be told they would be charged a £10 admin fee, which was 70p more then the value of the ticket they had purchased. Rediculous.

 

[janb]

I can't remember the rules exactly, I know you can exchange an Advance for £10 or Anytime for an excess, but what are the rules for exchanging an Off-Peak ticket (pre-bought) for a different date?

The silly auto-fill on the Arriva website strikes again...

It is perhaps little known even amongst staff but The Manual says you should be able to get a no admin fee refund if you buy a replacement ticket for the correct date in the circumstance you describe.

However things are complicated by you buying from the internet so you have to go back to them rather than a station, The Manual states,

If the ticket was purchased from a Travel Agent or other third party, London Underground telesales office, an internet website or was issued as part of the national Ticket on Departure system, the refund application must be made to the address notified by that selling office...

 

[emoaconr]

It is perhaps little known even amongst staff but The Manual says you should be able to get a no admin fee refund if you buy a replacement ticket for the correct date in the circumstance you describe.

However things are complicated by you buying from the internet so you have to go back to them rather than a station, The Manual states,

I fired off a rather heated complaint to ATW.

I read the NRCoC, which seems to claim an unused ticket is refundable if returned at the time of travel. But the point is, how can they tell at the desk if it has been sold by them or a third party? I collected my tickets from the ticket machine, and as far as they're concerened, they could have come from anywhere. I quoted some sections of the NRCoC in the email, but the point is it contradicts itself so much, its pretty hard to understand it in the first place. I love how the NRCoC claims "less than £10" is a reasonable administration fee. :P Though I do understand it really is there to just deter people from changing their plans.

 

[mickey]

I've heard similar stories, where someone bought a ticket to Birmingham then found out that the train was replaced by a bus, which arrived too late for when they needed to be there. They tried to get a refund,only to be told they would be charged a £10 admin fee, which was 70p more then the value of the ticket they had purchased. Rediculous.

If he didn't know about this when the ticket was purchased he would be entitled to a full refund with no admin fee as he's being affected by a change in journey plans. It would be different if he was told about the works when he bought his ticket and still decided to go. It's the same with delays - if you choose not to travel because of a delay about which you had not previously been informed you're entitled to abandon your journey and claim a full refund. My local stations are quite good at telling people about replacement buses and displaying notices about them, precisely because the staff can't be bothered refunding everyone's tickets when they do find out.

In general I don't have a problem with a reasonable admin fee (£10 or less) for refunds and exchanges - if it weren't charged imagine how many more people would buy tickets and later change their minds and clog up booking office queues.

 

[yorkie]

But the point is, how can they tell at the desk if it has been sold by them or a third party? I collected my tickets from the ticket machine, and as far as they're concerened, they could have come from anywhere. .

By the numbers on the ticket

Anyway glad you complained. There's no excuse for rudeness. You'd be rather unlikely to be spoken to that by someone in a shop.

 

[323235]

If he didn't know about this when the ticket was purchased he would be entitled to a full refund with no admin fee as he's being affected by a change in journey plans. It would be different if he was told about the works when he bought his ticket and still decided to go. It's the same with delays - if you choose not to travel because of a delay about which you had not previously been informed you're entitled to abandon your journey and claim a full refund. My local stations are quite good at telling people about replacement buses and displaying notices about them, precisely because the staff can't be bothered refunding everyone's tickets when they do find out.

It was a she and the ticket office person wudn't budge so she gave up and left £9.30 worse off.

Unfortunately Some rail staff are not very customer friendly and many passengers give up after situations like this and don't consider other ways to complain or have the knowledge that many members of this forum have, which they could communicate across to get the resolution they should quite rightfully get.

 

[Matt Taylor]

The admin fee exists to prevent fraudulent claims. Let's say that a passenger travels from Gatwick to Redhill, there are no barriers at either station and if the conductor does not check tickets between those two points the customer could then go back to the ticket office and say they did not travel, without the admin fee they would get a full refund and there would be nothing the TOC could do about it.

Furthermore, my moral stance is not relevant when doing refunds, if I fail to apply the admin fee I will have to answer to both the audit clerk and my manager who will want to know why I have not charged the fee. There is not really a grey area on the matter, although the fee can be waived if the reason for the refund is worded correctly.....if you see what I mean.

 

[yorkie]

The admin fee exists to prevent fraudulent claims. Let's say that a passenger travels from Gatwick to Redhill, there are no barriers at either station and if the conductor does not check tickets between those two points the customer could then go back to the ticket office and say they did not travel, without the admin fee they would get a full refund and there would be nothing the TOC could do about it.

IF this is true then the admin fee should not apply when obtaining refunds before the start date of the ticket. However this is not the case, therefore this excuse is not valid.

Furthermore, my moral stance is not relevant when doing refunds, if I fail to apply the admin fee I will have to answer to both the audit clerk and my manager who will want to know why I have not charged the fee. There is not really a grey area on the matter, although the fee can be waived if the reason for the refund is worded correctly.....if you see what I mean.

In other words, there are good reasons to not charge an admin fee and it is a grey area. janb identified a reason, and so have you. I've heard of occasions where it has been waived as a 'gesture of goodwill' also (ie, it would be immoral to apply it).

 

[EltonRoad]

When changing my plans with a 1st Class Sleeper ticket I was charged £10 admin.

The scenario was this:

I had a £184 1st Sleeper Single from Fort William to Euston and wanted to change it from Sunday to Monday night. The Monday night Sleeper was fully booked so the only option was to buy a single to Glasgow and get the Sleeper from there [cost about £118 for the Sleeper, £23 for the single].

The £184 single was refunded less £10 admin, which I guess is consistent with what it says in the conditions.

I later discovered there is an advance single from FW to Glasgow which the booking office clerk forgot to tell me about, which would have been some £11 cheaper. Judging by the emptiness of the Sprinter, it seems unlikely the quota was exhausted.

 

[Matt Taylor]

IF this is true then the admin fee should not apply when obtaining refunds before the start date of the ticket. However this is not the case, therefore this excuse is not valid.

In other words, there are good reasons to not charge an admin fee and it is a grey area. janb identified a reason, and so have you. I've heard of occasions where it has been waived as a 'gesture of goodwill' also (ie, it would be immoral to apply it).

That is entirely correct, there is no question of applying an admin fee to the refund of a walk up ticket if it presented before its validity commences. With regard to the 'grey area' I hope you understand what I am trying to get across but as a TOC employee I have to be careful what I say and how I say it.

I am still proud of my score of 99.5% in my ticket office clerk training exam many many years ago, but the 0.5% I missed was because I failed to apply the admin fee to a refund, so the admin fee will always be something of a sore point with me.

 

[LondonLarry]

Deleted - someone's already given the same response!