Changing the UK's time zone

[Mojo]

But more people are out and about in the evenings and the time in the evenings could be used more productively by most people.

I used to work 8am - 4pm and get up when it's dark from the start of Oct until the clocks change and then from mid-Nov until the end of Feb. Around 4½ months.

I'd get home when it's dark from the start of Nov until the end of Jan. Around 3 months.

If we used one time zone all year round then I'd get up in the dark from the start of Oct until mid-Mar, which is 5½ months, but I'd get home every evening when it's still light.

 

[Greenback]

But more people are out and about in the evenings and the time in the evenings could be used more productively by most people.

I used to work 8am - 4pm and get up when it's dark from the start of Oct until the clocks change and then from mid-Nov until the end of Feb. Around 4½ months.

I'd get home when it's dark from the start of Nov until the end of Jan. Around 3 months.

If we used one time zone all year round then I'd get up in the dark from the start of Oct until mid-Mar, which is 5½ months, but I'd get home every evening when it's still light.

No doubt some people agree, others will disagree, and this may well be influenced by their working hours.

My personal preference is to get up in the light for longer. This may be becaus eof all the years I spent working shifts - I regularly used to get up in the dark even in the summer, and I never liked it!

But decisions should not be made on the basis of either your or my preferences, but on the basis of whether the majority agree! Looking at the opinions here, more seem to be against it than in favour, which is pretty similar to every poll I've ever seen on the subject!

 

[Class172]

Mojo, I think you're outnumbered as most people say no change!

 

[SS4]

But decisions should not be made on the basis of either your or my preferences, but on the basis of whether the majority agree! Looking at the opinions here, more seem to be against it than in favour, which is pretty similar to every poll I've ever seen on the subject!

Indeed but that would be democratic

 

[Class172]

I've said it before, and I shall say it again: can we have a poll please.

 

[Mojo]

Mojo, I think you're outnumbered as most people say no change!

Most people on this forum do, but I don't know anyone in real life who has not supported the change. I suspect most people here don't understand it, or the rationale behind changing it.

It seems a perfectly sensible solution to the mess of daylight losings time.

 

[Greenback]

Most people on this forum do, but I don't know anyone in real life who has not supported the change. I suspect most people here don't understand it, or the rationale behind changing it.

It seems a perfectly sensible solution to the mess of daylight losings time.

I do know people who support it, but there are only one or two. Everyone else of my acquaintance is against it.

I suspect if you asked whether people would like an extra hour of daylight in the winter, the immediate reaction of the majority would be yes. However, when the implications are realised or explained, people seem far less keen.

 

[Hydro]

I work such odd shifts that no matter what happens to the clocks, I'll still be travelling to or from work in the dark, or sleeping during the day, in equal measure. Because of that, I really don't care!

 

[Mojo]

This seems to be discussed twice per year, so is not a new issue. I hope the Government does something this time though, rather than talking about it:

2010:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...locks-forward-permanently-convince-Scots.html (includes a poll where most are in favour)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10361010
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...should-britain-change-its-clocks-1930662.html (including the points for and against, although they are largely positive)

Here is also the campaign website, outlining its support and the advantages of a change: http://www.lighterlater.org/
Further information can also be found at: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/time-zone/europe/uk/time/change-uk-time-zone/
And: http://wwp.greenwichmeantime.com/ti.../change-uk-time-zone/documents/snsc-03796.pdf
The middle link also includes the disadvantages too!

 

[Cruithne3753]

How about putting the clocks forward by 72 hours for the summer? Then, all that nice sunny weather that annoyingly seems to happen midweek can be enjoyed at the weekends instead.

 

[Zoe]

If we used one time zone all year round then I'd get up in the dark from the start of Oct until mid-Mar, which is 5½ months, but I'd get home every evening when it's still light.

At the end of the day though this is never going to be an option due to the EU summer time requirements. It's either double summer time or no change.

 

[SS4]

How about putting the clocks forward by 72 hours for the summer? Then, all that nice sunny weather that annoyingly seems to happen midweek can be enjoyed at the weekends instead.

Alternatively switch to 28 hour days at the expense of Mondays

 

[Madge Wildfire]

I remember the previous time when we stayed on BST all year round, 1969/70 and 1970/71 winters I think.

All I know is, on dull and wet winter mornings in December and January it did not get properly light until 10 a.m. and was really depressing after a while.

Yes it was lighter a bit in the late afternoon, but I cant say I remember - just the misery of going to school/work in the night, even though it was after 8 a.m.

Adding another hour in the summer sounds good, but that means sunset would be 2230-ish during mid June.

Imagine children (and not just babies) having to go to bed at maybe 2030 with two hours of sunshine left. I bet parents would soon get fed up with that.

 

[martinsh]

Alternatively switch to 28 hour days at the expense of Mondays

My preference is for 9 day weeks with 3 day weekends !

 

[Bedpan]

I remember the previous time when we stayed on BST all year round, 1969/70 and 1970/71 winters I think.

All I know is, on dull and wet winter mornings in December and January it did not get properly light until 10 a.m. and was really depressing after a while.

Yes it was lighter a bit in the late afternoon, but I cant say I remember - just the misery of going to school/work in the night, even though it was after 8 a.m.

But against that, there's nothing more depressing than taking a late lunch hour (2-3) on an overecast day at the end of November and December and finding its starting to get dark as you walk back to work. There again, as a 10am starter I could count the number of times I get up in the dark each year on the fingers of one hand, and that's usually when I;nm going off somewhere for the day. Light early mornings are a complete waste of daylight as far as I'm concerned.

I hate November and the first half of December. At least after that the evenings are starting to get lighter again.

 

[NightatLaira]

There was talk not so long ago in Holyrood of the Shetland Isles being allowed to put their clocks forward one hour (essentially GMT+0200), same as Cape Verde / Azores! Simply so schoolchildren did not have to walk to school in the dark in Winter!

I say standardise time zones with Europe, it makes life simpler, and if it might help trade - why not? People put lights on during the day anyway, so I don't buy the idea that there'll be greater energy usage for waking up in the dark.

 

[SS4]

I don't get this "it'll help us in Europe" lark. People who are too thick to know what time it is in Berlin do not deserve the job

 

[Zoe]

I don't get this "it'll help us in Europe" lark. People who are too thick to know what time it is in Berlin do not deserve the job

It will save the stock exchange having to open at 8 AM.

 

[SS4]

It will save the stock exchange having to open at 8 AM.

True although surely the upshot is that it closes at 4. Or does it stay open until 10pm for New York?

 

[Zoe]

There was talk not so long ago in Holyrood of the Shetland Isles being allowed to put their clocks forward one hour (essentially GMT+0200), same as Cape Verde / Azores! Simply so schoolchildren did not have to walk to school in the dark in Winter!

If they were to move the clocks forward to GMT+2 then it would get light later in the day so they would still have to walk to school in the dark.

 

[90019]

How about putting the clocks forward by 72 hours for the summer? Then, all that nice sunny weather that annoyingly seems to happen midweek can be enjoyed at the weekends instead.

Oddly enough, due to things like pollution cycles, and a few other things I can't remember, it does actually rain more often at the weekend than during the week.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Another point about keeping our bodies in synch with the natural day / night cycle:

The body can only produce the vital hormone melatonin [ from the pineal gland ] if it is in complete darkness during sleep.

Melatonin is an oncostatic hormone, ie cancer inhibiting, and we need it for optimal health.

Suggested reading:

Light at night, Chronodisruption, Melatonin suppression, and Cancer risk: A Review; Russel J Reiter, Dun-Xian Tan, Ahmet Korkmaz, Thomas C Erren, et al. Critical Reviews in Oncogenesis, 13(4):303-328 ( 2007 ).

The above scientific review has references to no less than 132 papers all of which make the case that light at night is a risk for cancer, and the World Health Organisation has acknowledged the risk.

 

[newbie babs]

I don`t want them changing it, I remember walking to school in 70`s when they last did it, it was horrible.

Even now at least when I enter "bat cave" working, dark in the morning to work and dark in the evening when I finish, its not pitch black at 7am, but it would feel more like 5 am if they changed it and way more scary to walk through Sheffield to work.

Accidents will happen no matter what, so will burglary`s happen , lets face it they don`t care if its dark or light these days.

 

[Lampshade]

If they were to move the clocks forward to GMT+2 then it would get light later in the day so they would still have to walk to school in the dark.

True, but on the flip side it gets dark around 15:30 (GMT) when we're near the Equinox, by moving us to GMT+2 it'd be getting dark by 13:30 and pitch black by the time children finish school, which isn't good for safety given the roads will essentially be icing up two hours earlier, which would impact on the evening commute home.

 

[Bungle73]

True, but on the flip side it gets dark around 15:30 (GMT) when we're near the Equinox, by moving us to GMT+2 it'd be getting dark by 13:30 and pitch black by the time children finish school, which isn't good for safety given the roads will essentially be icing up two hours earlier, which would impact on the evening commute home.

Um no it wouldn't. It would get dark at 17:30.

 

[Mojo]

True, but on the flip side it gets dark around 15:30 (GMT) when we're near the Equinox, by moving us to GMT+2 it'd be getting dark by 13:30 and pitch black by the time children finish school, which isn't good for safety given the roads will essentially be icing up two hours earlier, which would impact on the evening commute home.

When would GMT+2 mean this happens? GMT+2 would occur in the summer months, adding an extra hour of daylight to the afternoon.

 

[Lampshade]

When would GMT+2 mean this happens? GMT+2 would occur in the summer months, adding an extra hour of daylight to the afternoon.

Too quick with the post button there, second time I've done that today

 

[SteveP29]

NO! I hate having to get up when it's still night.

Just because it's dark, doesn't mean it's night!!

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The body can only produce the vital hormone melatonin [ from the pineal gland ] if it is in complete darkness during sleep.

Melatonin is an oncostatic hormone, ie cancer inhibiting, and we need it for optimal health.

Not strictly true. The melatonin hormone signal is part of the system that controls the sleep-wake cycle by causing drowsiness and lowering body temperature. However it is the central nervous system that controls the daily cycle in most parts of the paracrine and endocrine systems (1)(2).

Mostly, it is blue light (460 - 480nm) that suppresses melatonin (3). It has also been shown that light containing wavelengths greater than 530nm does not suppress melatonin in bright light (4).

In animals, melatonin has been shown to prevent the damage to DNA caused by some carcinogens (basically inhibiting the progress of cancer, but only with some carcinogens - it is not a "stop all cancer" molecule)(5)

Melatonin can also be taken as a supplement, so it is not vital to only sleep in conditions which allow the production of melatonin.

1. Richardson, GS (2005). "The human circadian system in normal and disordered sleep". The Journal of clinical psychiatry 66 Suppl 9: 3–9; quiz 42–3.
2. Perreau-Lenz, StéPhanie; Pévet, Paul; Buijs, Ruud M.; Kalsbeek, Andries (2004). "The Biological Clock: The Bodyguard of Temporal Homeostasis". Chronobiology International 21 (1): 1–25.
3. Brainard, GC; Hanifin, JP; Greeson, JM; Byrne, B; Glickman, G; Gerner, E; Rollag, MD (2001). "Action spectrum for melatonin regulation in humans: evidence for a novel circadian photoreceptor". The Journal of neuroscience : the official journal of the Society for Neuroscience 21 (16): 6405–12.
4. Kayumov, L. (2005). "Blocking Low-Wavelength Light Prevents Nocturnal Melatonin Suppression with No Adverse Effect on Performance during Simulated Shift Work". Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism 90 (5): 2755–61
5. Karbownik, M; Reiter, Russel J.; Cabrera, Javier; Garcia, Joaquin J. (2001). "Comparison of the protective effect of melatonin with other antioxidants in the hamster kidney model of estradiol-induced DNA damage". Mutation Research/Fundamental and Molecular Mechanisms of Mutagenesis 474: 87–92.

 

[dangie]

I reckon that as most seem to spend most of their leisure time stuck in front of a PC glued to Facebook or engaged in various forms of forum bickering it wouldn't matter a jot if we had 24 hours of darkness.