Charing Cross-Tunbridge Wells terminators (millennium period)

[nw1]

Have been looking into quite a few historical (late BR/early privatisation) South Eastern things of late and have a few questions (other questions will appear on separate threads).

Something I swear I remember from around 2001 and have now confirmed was the case is the existence of a half-hourly Tunbridge Wells terminator. This can be seen for example on the Sep 2001 WTT on Network Rail.

However unlike the early Tunbridge Wells terminator of the late 80s, which served all stations from Petts Wood onwards, this one seemed to have limited utility.

There was a Hastings at xx05 and xx35, retimed from xx10/xx40 in previous years (which itself was a retiming from xx15/xx45, in order to create a free path for Eurostar, I believe).

This was followed closely by an xx10 and xx40 TW terminator. However oddly, the calling pattern to Tonbridge was practically identical, except one of the two also called at Hildenborough (which could have been done instead by one of the two Hastings services).

My question is: what was the point of these services? Reliefs for the Hastings? Would it have not been more efficient in that case to add extra coaches to the Hastings services?

 

[MotCO]

I remember the TW terminators, but thought that this gave a fast option from Orpington, for example, which presumably the Hastings trains didn't.

 

[nw1]

I remember the TW terminators, but thought that this gave a fast option from Orpington, for example, which presumably the Hastings trains didn't.

This is the case for one of them, to be fair, though the other (the xx40) made exactly the same calls to Tonbridge and gained half a minute (pathing reasons I presume) on the previous Hastings.

So the xx10 called additionally at both Orpington and Hildenborough. Even still seems quite a lot of resources just to allow one of the two Hastings to skip 2 stations. Would demand not have been satisfied by 2 Hastings both calling Orpington, and one all stations from Sevenoaks but the other fast?

I'm not a "cuts person" by the way, I'm constantly bemoaning the current cut-back-to-the-bone rail scene - just wanting to get ideas as to why these presumably very expensive (for the number of passengers) services were deemed worthwhile running?

(I can, by contrast, see a need for two TW terminators per hour which called at all stations from Orpington onwards, but presumably this was not possible due to the Eurostar paths).

Not sure what stock they were, I would guess a single CEP or VEP. (I think I saw them at the time, but forget the exact stock).

EDIT - just thought of another theory; perhaps the intention was for them to call at all stations from Orpington onwards once HS1 had been completed and Eurostar was thus no longer "chasing" them, but they were introduced earlier to reserve the paths? Bit like Chiltern introduced services in the Oxford paths several years before they actually went to Oxford. Can't remember whether in later years this actually happened, though the 2008 timetable is a complete recast from the millennium-era one, with the TW services completely gone.

 

[MotCO]

Not sure what stock they were, I would guess a single CEP or VEP. (I think I saw them at the time, but forget the exact stock).

My recollections are from around the turn of the century when they were Networkers.

 

[nw1]

My recollections are from around the turn of the century when they were Networkers.

Ah ok, thanks. Difficult to tell from the WTT.

 

[yorksrob]

This is the case for one of them, to be fair, though the other (the xx40) made exactly the same calls to Tonbridge and gained half a minute (pathing reasons I presume) on the previous Hastings.

So the xx10 called additionally at both Orpington and Hildenborough. Even still seems quite a lot of resources just to allow one of the two Hastings to skip 2 stations. Would demand not have been satisfied by 2 Hastings both calling Orpington, and one all stations from Sevenoaks but the other fast?

I'm not a "cuts person" by the way, I'm constantly bemoaning the current cut-back-to-the-bone rail scene - just wanting to get ideas as to why these presumably very expensive (for the number of passengers) services were deemed worthwhile running?

(I can, by contrast, see a need for two TW terminators per hour which called at all stations from Orpington onwards, but presumably this was not possible due to the Eurostar paths).

Not sure what stock they were, I would guess a single CEP or VEP. (I think I saw them at the time, but forget the exact stock).

EDIT - just thought of another theory; perhaps the intention was for them to call at all stations from Orpington onwards once HS1 had been completed and Eurostar was thus no longer "chasing" them, but they were introduced earlier to reserve the paths? Bit like Chiltern introduced services in the Oxford paths several years before they actually went to Oxford. Can't remember whether in later years this actually happened, though the 2008 timetable is a complete recast from the millennium-era one, with the TW services completely gone.

Although the line to Hastings conveyed twelve carriage DEMU's, my understanding is that the electrification in 1986 was specced for 8 carriage trains, so it would have been difficult to have them longer.

Maybe this timetable got an extra eight carriages to Tunbridge Wells, rather than have twelve carriages towards Hastings have to detatch four at Tonbridge.

 

[paul1609]

Although the line to Hastings conveyed twelve carriage DEMU's, my understanding is that the electrification in 1986 was specced for 8 carriage trains, so it would have been difficult to have them longer.

Maybe this timetable got an extra eight carriages to Tunbridge Wells, rather than have twelve carriages towards Hastings have to detatch four at Tonbridge.

I think it was actually spec as 12 to Tun Wells, 8 beyond. For whatever reason even pre-pandemic the London Commuter traffic tailed off dramatically south of Tunbridge Wells and was more or less non existant by Robertsbridge. I think thats was actually the reason why the line remained unelectrified for so long.
When we were doing the business case for the K &ESR extension to Robertsbridge one of the Southeastern planners told me that it would be very welcome traffic as the hastings Line was basically a fresh air express off peak.

 

[yorksrob]

I think it was actually spec as 12 to Tun Wells, 8 beyond.

Ah thanks. I suppose they would have had to have done something with a detached unit as this was before the reversing siding was built.

Shame the line is quiet off-peak as its such lovely countryside. I wonder if it would do any better if they could still detach a portion direct to Bexhill !

 

[nw1]

Although the line to Hastings conveyed twelve carriage DEMU's, my understanding is that the electrification in 1986 was specced for 8 carriage trains, so it would have been difficult to have them longer.

Maybe this timetable got an extra eight carriages to Tunbridge Wells, rather than have twelve carriages towards Hastings have to detatch four at Tonbridge.

Ah, ok, thanks, that might explain it; even if it was 12 to TW and 8 beyond you'd still have to detach there, and perhaps there was a desire not to slow the Hastings services too much?

FWIW 10-car trains were definitely allowed to TW in 1987, one year after electrification. I visited the area in August of that year and there was a 20-min interval TW terminator in the peak, all services IIRC formed of 8VEP + 2EPB.

 

[yorksrob]

Ah, ok, thanks, that might explain it; even if it was 12 to TW and 8 beyond you'd still have to detach there, and perhaps there was a desire not to slow the Hastings services too much?

FWIW 10-car trains were definitely allowed to TW in 1987, one year after electrification. I visited the area in August of that year and there was a 20-min interval TW terminator in the peak, all services IIRC formed of 8VEP + 2EPB.

Yes, some of the 2HAP's eked out their last days on those services now you mention it (a little more suited to Royal Tunbridge Wells perhaps than an EPB !).

 

[zwk500]

For whatever reason even pre-pandemic the London Commuter traffic tailed off dramatically south of Tunbridge Wells and was more or less non existant by Robertsbridge.

The reason might have quite a lot to do with the fact that between Tunbridge Wells and St Leonards there are very few people to catch the train. Battle is the largest town on this section at 6,600 people. Several of the villages served by the stations are less than 1,000 people (today's populations).

 

[nw1]

Yes, some of the 2HAP's eked out their last days on those services (a little more suited to Royal Tunbridge Wells perhaps than an EPB !).

Ah ok, that was probably during a period I never visited the SE area, though I do understand the HAPs moved over to the SE after they were withdrawn from the SW in September 1991.

To be fair, those TW terminators were probably not used so much by TW commuters, who would presumably have favoured the 20-minutely CEPs operating the faster services down to Hastings.

As a further aside it's amazing how many services they managed to fit in down that stretch of 2-track railway between Orpington and Tonbridge during peak times in that late-80s / 90s period. By my calculation and (perhaps faulty) memory, the Orpington to Sevenoaks section featured 15tph in the peak in the late 80s (6tph towards Ashford, 3tph Hastings, 3tph TW, and 3tph EPBs on Sevenoaks terminators). I guess later, the 66-minute hour helped a little, and I presume Eurostar went some other way, e.g. the less-congested Maidstone East route, in the peak (I actually have the WTT so can check this).

 

[yorksrob]

Ah ok, that was probably during a period I never visited the SE area, though I do understand the HAPs moved over to the SE after they were withdrawn from the SW in September 1991.

To be fair, those TW terminators were probably not used so much by TW commuters, who would presumably have favoured the 20-minutely CEPs operating the faster services down to Hastings.

As a further aside it's amazing how many services they managed to fit in down that stretch of 2-track railway between Orpington and Tonbridge during peak times in that late-80s / 90s period. By my calculation and (perhaps faulty) memory, the Orpington to Sevenoaks section featured 15tph in the peak (6tph towards Ashford, 3tph Hastings, 3tph TW, and 3tph EPBs on Sevenoaks terminators). I guess the 66-minute hour helped a little, and I presume Eurostar went some other way in the peak (I actually have the WTT so can check this).

Indeed, that route was undoubtedly the main line in Kent at the time. Eurostar had the option of going via Maidstone East of course.

I'd take a HAP over a refurbished CEP anyday.

 

[nw1]

Indeed, that route was undoubtedly the main line in Kent at the time. Eurostar had the option of going via Maidstone East of course.

True - as I realised a couple of minutes later (see edit).

I'd take a HAP over a refurbished CEP anyday.

Another aside: the 1982 timetable (before my time as far as the SE goes, but I have a CWN) was a veritable HAP-fest. Even some Chatham fast services in the shoulder-peak were pure-HAP formations (e.g. 1613 and 1634 ex-Victoria, plus the 1652 6HAP+4CEP). The 1981 timetable even more so; HAPs dominated the off-peak Chatham line stoppers (which that year had a rather bizarre and somewhat irregular, though still same times each hour, timetable for the stoppers, quite unlike the standard timetable of the 80s and 90s with 2 fasts immediately followed by 2 slows out of Victoria on a half-hourly clockface interval).

By the time I visited the SE division in 1986 and again in 1987, the HAPs had apparently gone (well, I didn't see any, including in the Charing Cross peak), though there were still plenty over in the SW.

 

[30907]

I guess later, the 66-minute hour helped a little, and I presume Eurostar went some other way, e.g. the less-congested Maidstone East route, in the peak (I actually have the WTT so can check this).

(For those who don't know, the 20-minute interval peak service was altered at some stage to 22-minutes in the evening only.)
A couple of down evening Eurostars went Bat and Ball, certainly.

 

[nw1]

(For those who don't know, the 20-minute interval peak service was altered at some stage to 22-minutes in the evening only.)
A couple of down evening Eurostars went Bat and Ball, certainly.

Indeed, sorry I didn't make that clear. The 22-min interval pattern was clearly in evidence by 1996 (timetable on Timetable World) but presumably it was introduced about the same time as Eurostar and/or the introduction of 465s. I forget exactly when.

I did use an evening Eurostar of some kind in March 2001 to Paris; it went the standard route, though it was pitch black even as far in as Brixton, so by March it was presumably after the evening peak. Looking at the WTT for 2001 I'd guess it was the 1853. In fact looking at the WTT for 2001 again, the two off-pattern Eurostars at 1715 and 1719 ex-Waterloo went via Maidstone East; others in the evening peak period appeared to go via the standard Orpington/Tonbridge route, including the 1748 Paris which took 13 mins to get from Orpington to Sevenoaks (1811-1824), following the 1736 Cannon Street to Sevenoaks stopper (due 1822).

 

[yorksrob]

True - as I realised a couple of minutes later (see edit).

Another aside: the 1982 timetable (before my time as far as the SE goes, but I have a CWN) was a veritable HAP-fest. Even some Chatham fast services in the shoulder-peak were pure-HAP formations (e.g. 1613 and 1634 ex-Victoria, plus the 1652 6HAP+4CEP). The 1981 timetable even more so; HAPs dominated the off-peak Chatham line stoppers (which that year had a rather bizarre and somewhat irregular, though still same times each hour, timetable for the stoppers, quite unlike the standard timetable of the 80s and 90s with 2 fasts immediately followed by 2 slows out of Victoria on a half-hourly clockface interval).

By the time I visited the SE division in 1986 and again in 1987, the HAPs had apparently gone (well, I didn't see any, including in the Charing Cross peak), though there were still plenty over in the SW.

Yes, they were very rare in NSE days, but I'd see the odd one now and then.

 

[Taunton]

As a further aside it's amazing how many services they managed to fit in down that stretch of 2-track railway between Orpington and Tonbridge during peak times in that late-80s / 90s period. By my calculation and (perhaps faulty) memory, the Orpington to Sevenoaks section featured 15tph in the peak in the late 80s (6tph towards Ashford, 3tph Hastings, 3tph TW, and 3tph EPBs on Sevenoaks terminators). I guess later, the 66-minute hour helped a little, and I presume Eurostar went some other way, e.g. the less-congested Maidstone East route, in the peak (I actually have the WTT so can check this).

Polhill Tunnel, 1.5 miles long, is on this stretch. There was a first-in-the-country installation of "intelligent" intermediate signals inside it, in the 1960s, after the final elimination of steam locomotives. It was not desirable for trains to be regularly stopped inside there, so there was logic on the entrance signal connected to the signals beyond the tunnel checking the train ahead of another in the tunnel also had clear signals. One could of course be stopped on a red if the first train then had an unexpected problem. I wonder if that ever happened.

Regarding Eurostar, like their boat train predecessors the majority ran this way, even in the peaks. There were one or two I understand scheduled via Bat & Ball in some timetables, and more could be sent that way (and Kent expresses) if the service was disrupted, while via Maidstone East was only used at such times. I did this latter once, and the train lost the best part of an hour, despite no checks in France, so something to be avoided if possible.

 

[nw1]

Perhaps this needs to be in a separate thread, but one of the big features of the South Eastern was the very large increase in peak services, this appeared to be very much greater than the other Southern/NSE divisions.

For example the aforementioned Orpington-Sevenoaks section had just 5 off-peak services per hour in 1987* yet increased to 15 in the peak, a three-fold increase.

Perhaps due to the nature of the area, relatively few really big towns (hence off-peak could be relatively infrequent) but many, many commuters.

Then there's the suburban routes, but that definitely does require another thread.

(*If interested, the pattern was, out of Charing Cross:

xx55 Dover and beyond express, fast Waterloo East-Ashford. Route Tonbridge.
xx00 Ashford stopper
xx15 Tunbridge Wells stopper. At the time this covered the intermediate stations Orpington-Sevenoaks, which was unusual as in most eras it has been covered by a suburban service. Thus said stations got first-class off-peak.
xx30 Ramsgate/Margate via Dover (FP) and via Canterbury West (RP). FP may have terminated Dover - I can't remember now.
xx45 Hastings )


As another aside, I wonder if there were any public observation points adjacent to the place where the South Eastern and Chatham main lines cross over north of Petts Wood? Thus, a location where you would have been able to observe operations on both main lines simultaneously?

The map shows some wooded areas and some kind of access track very close to the crossing point, though not sure if this was public.

 

[Taunton]

Perhaps this needs to be in a separate thread, but one of the big features of the South Eastern was the very large increase in peak services, this appeared to be very much greater than the other Southern/NSE divisions.

For example the aforementioned Orpington-Sevenoaks section had just 5 off-peak services per hour in 1987* yet increased to 15 in the peak, a three-fold increase.

Perhaps due to the nature of the area, relatively few really big towns (hence off-peak could be relatively infrequent) but many, many commuters.

Then there's the suburban routes, but that definitely does require another thread.

(*If interested, the pattern was, out of Charing Cross:

xx55 Dover and beyond express, fast Waterloo East-Ashford. Route Tonbridge.
xx00 Ashford stopper
xx15 Tunbridge Wells stopper. At the time this covered the intermediate stations Orpington-Sevenoaks, which was unusual as in most eras it has been covered by a suburban service. Thus said stations got first-class off-peak.
xx30 Ramsgate/Margate via Dover (FP) and via Canterbury West (RP). FP may have terminated Dover - I can't remember now.
xx45 Hastings )


As another aside, I wonder if there were any public observation points adjacent to the place where the South Eastern and Chatham main lines cross over north of Petts Wood? Thus, a location where you would have been able to observe operations on both main lines simultaneously?

A key aspect was the location of Charing Cross station, right next to the Whitehall government offices, and Cannon Street, probably best-placed for walking to the office of the City termini. Both led to substantial commuter traffic, and development of the various towns along the lines, that improved in social standing as they spread out (culminating in "Disgusted's" favoured residence, Tunbridge Wells).

 

[nw1]

A key aspect was the location of Charing Cross station, right next to the Whitehall government offices, and Cannon Street, probably best-placed for walking to the office of the City termini. Both led to substantial commuter traffic, and development of the various towns along the lines, that improved in social standing as they spread out (culminating in "Disgusted's" favoured residence, Tunbridge Wells).

Very true; one feature of the South Eastern of course was the Charing Cross/Cannon Street mix of origin points, about 50:50 in the peak if I remember right. I did have some questions about how that all worked (in the classic era of the 80s and 90s) from a "conflicts at London Bridge" point of view, but as I said, I think that's a topic for a new "South Eastern suburban operations" thread which I'm planning on starting.

 

[John Bray]

The change 2 years ago to only have a half-hourly fast service from Orpington to London Bridge is very regrettable. Served sometimes by Hastings trains, other times by Tunbridge Wells terminators, and even a shuttle starting at Orpington, its a muddled system, and gives a lousy service, as the 4 stoppers are all overtaken, so a major station has a practical 2tph to London, with the Tunbridge Wells that used to stop still running, so no rolling stock is saved.

Southeastern claim there is no demand, even though the late-night trains are crush-loaded

 

[HS2isgood]

Very true; one feature of the South Eastern of course was the Charing Cross/Cannon Street mix of origin points, about 50:50 in the peak if I remember right. I did have some questions about how that all worked (in the classic era of the 80s and 90s) from a "conflicts at London Bridge" point of view, but as I said, I think that's a topic for a new "South Eastern suburban operations" thread which I'm planning on starting.

Yes, do open it!

 

[nw1]

The change 2 years ago to only have a half-hourly fast service from Orpington to London Bridge is very regrettable. Served sometimes by Hastings trains, other times by Tunbridge Wells terminators, and even a shuttle starting at Orpington, its a muddled system, and gives a lousy service, as the 4 stoppers are all overtaken, so a major station has a practical 2tph to London, with the Tunbridge Wells that used to stop still running, so no rolling stock is saved.

Southeastern claim there is no demand, even though the late-night trains are crush-loaded

I would be surprised if there isn't demand for a 15-minutely fast service to Orpington.

I can't remember whether all of the xx00, xx15, xx30 and xx45 mainline services called in the late 80s though I think at least 3 of them did.

At that time a good number skipped London Bridge, if I remember right.

The earlier, pre-Hastings electrification pattern (1982 timetable on Timetable World) had the xx03 Ashford, xx30 Margate/Ramsgate via Dover and via Canterbury divider, and xx45 Hastings (diesel) all calling.

 

[1971martin]

I would be surprised if there isn't demand for a 15-minutely fast service to Orpington.

I can't remember whether all of the xx00, xx15, xx30 and xx45 mainline services called in the late 80s though I think at least 3 of them did.

At that time a good number skipped London Bridge, if I remember right.

The earlier, pre-Hastings electrification pattern (1982 timetable on Timetable World) had the xx03 Ashford, xx30 Margate/Ramsgate via Dover and via Canterbury divider, and xx45 Hastings (diesel) all calling.

I remember the basic off-peak service as follows (worked at Tonbridge 1988-1990).

xx00 fast London Bridge - Orpington (Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, all stations to Ashford)
xx15 fast London Bridge - Petts Wood (all Stations to Tunbridge Wells)
xx30 fast Waterloo East - Orpington (Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Staplehurst, Ashford, slow to Dover/Margate)
xx45 fast Waterloo East - Sevenoaks (Tonbridge, stations to Hastings (Frant, Stonegate, Crowhurst 2hourly only))

Some changes in May 1989 -

The xx15 was extended to Hastings, losing its Chelsfield and Hildenborough stops to the Ashford service and a Thameslink service that previously terminated at Orpington was extended all stations to Sevenoaks giving Chelsfield two trains an hour

The xx30 now called additionally at Headcorn

The xx55 fast now called at London Bridge, fast to Maidstone East, fast to Ashford.

 

[nw1]

I remember the basic off-peak service as follows (worked at Tonbridge 1988-1990).

xx00 fast London Bridge - Orpington (Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, all stations to Ashford)
xx15 fast London Bridge - Petts Wood (all Stations to Tunbridge Wells)
xx30 fast Waterloo East - Orpington (Sevenoaks, Tonbridge, Paddock Wood, Staplehurst, Ashford, slow to Dover/Margate)
xx45 fast Waterloo East - Sevenoaks (Tonbridge, stations to Hastings (Frant, Stonegate, Crowhurst 2hourly only))

Thanks, that's what I remember but I can't remember which called at Orpington, so three fasts per hour but with one half-hour gap. That said, in 1987 I am fairly sure the xx30 didn't call Staplehurst - it was fast Paddock Wood-Ashford.

Some changes in May 1989 -

The xx15 was extended to Hastings, losing its Chelsfield and Hildenborough stops to the Ashford service and a Thameslink service that previously terminated at Orpington was extended all stations to Sevenoaks giving Chelsfield two trains an hour

The xx30 now called additionally at Headcorn

The xx55 fast now called at London Bridge, fast to Maidstone East, fast to Ashford.

Ah ok, thanks. I knew the extension to Hastings of the xx15 occurred at some point but I thought it was rather later.

I also seem to remember the xx55 diverting via Maidstone at some point.

By 1996 the fast now had a Victoria origin point, still via Maidstone, but was considerably slower than the old fast. So Dover lost its "super fasts" in the late 90s. I wonder if this was due to a reduction in rail/boat traffic as a result of Eurostar, and Dover in itself was not a big enough town to warrant a fast to London?

Interesting that this basic pattern survived until at least 2001 - the Hastings were moved 10 mins earlier to (presumably) leave a gap for Eurostar, while later the xx00 to Ashford extended towards Dover and the descendant of the xx55 fast then was diverted to Canterbury West and beyond.

 

[Taunton]

The change 2 years ago to only have a half-hourly fast service from Orpington to London Bridge is very regrettable. Served sometimes by Hastings trains, other times by Tunbridge Wells terminators, and even a shuttle starting at Orpington, its a muddled system, and gives a lousy service, as the 4 stoppers are all overtaken, so a major station has a practical 2tph to London, with the Tunbridge Wells that used to stop still running, so no rolling stock is saved.

Southeastern claim there is no demand, even though the late-night trains are crush-loaded

Much as it was doubtless convenient locally, Orpington is within London (Borough of Bromley), and the significant majority of use is towards Central London, after which I would guess the next most common destination is Bromley, the major shopping and borough admin centre.

It really doesn't seem appropriate for longer distance services to Hastings, Ramsgate, or similar to provide the principal service. You don't expect the GEML trains from Norwich etc to provide the main inward service from Romford.

Crush loading of late night services is commonly caused by the operator cutting back to minimal formations, with plenty of their other rolling stock put away for the night.

 

[MotCO]

As a commuter from Orpington for many years, I also found it galling that in the rush hour, Orpington had no fast services to/from London. Chelsfield always seemed to have a better service in the rush hours, and worse service in the non-peaks. I think it may now have changed insofar as there are some semi-fast trains from Orpington, and even one which starts at Orpington and is fast to London Bridge. There also used to be two trains from Cannon Street, fast to Petts Wood and Orpington only at 17.24 and 17.42.

I understand the operational reasons for this, but it was still galling!

 

[yorksrob]

Thanks, that's what I remember but I can't remember which called at Orpington, so three fasts per hour but with one half-hour gap. That said, in 1987 I am fairly sure the xx30 didn't call Staplehurst - it was fast Paddock Wood-Ashford.


Ah ok, thanks. I knew the extension to Hastings of the xx15 occurred at some point but I thought it was rather later.

I also seem to remember the xx55 diverting via Maidstone at some point.

By 1996 the fast now had a Victoria origin point, still via Maidstone, but was considerably slower than the old fast. So Dover lost its "super fasts" in the late 90s. I wonder if this was due to a reduction in rail/boat traffic as a result of Eurostar, and Dover in itself was not a big enough town to warrant a fast to London?

Interesting that this basic pattern survived until at least 2001 - the Hastings were moved 10 mins earlier to (presumably) leave a gap for Eurostar, while later the xx00 to Ashford extended towards Dover and the descendant of the xx55 fast then was diverted to Canterbury West and beyond.

I was just about moving away from Kent in 1996, however I don't remember the fast from Ashford going Victoria via Maidstone East. Always used to be Charing Cross when I used it (with the stopper going to Vic).

 

[nw1]

I was just about moving away from Kent in 1996, however I don't remember the fast from Ashford going Victoria via Maidstone East. Always used to be Charing Cross when I used it (with the stopper going to Vic).

The 1996 timetable on Timetable World appears to show an on-the-hour service from Victoria, however it has a poor path and thus isn't especially fast, despite not stopping much.