Cheapest day return from Worcester to Newport?

[jednick]

There are no day returns available from Worcester to Newport (South Wales), just an off-peak return at £31.60.

I think I've found a way to do it legally for just £13.60, but can somebody please confirm if I'm definitely allowed to do it this way.

I buy an off-peak day return from Worcester to Patchway at £13.60. Normally, it would be expected I change trains somewhere in the Bristol area, probably at Filton Abbey Wood.

I put in into the National Rail journey planner "via Hereford", and the £13.60 ticket still comes up as valid, surprisingly. So it's Worcester-Hereford-Newport-Patchway.

So all I simply do is only go as far as Newport and then exit the station there, considering it a break of journey, and I've gone from Worcester to Newport and back in a day for less than half the price of a normal ticket.

I'm reasonably sure this is all legitimate, but could somebody please check into this. Also, if I'm challenged on my way to Hereford, or from Hereford to Newport, or at the ticket gates at Newport, how could I prove to the train crew the route's valid? Is showing them the journey on my phone's National Rail Enquiries app sufficient?

 

[extendedpaul]

I await the response from the experts here with interest as Newport to Worcester was a journey I recently decided not to make myself due to the high fare. Under £9 with my railcard makes it very appealing.

The itinerary on National Rail Enquiries actually shows a change at Newport rather than at a station in the Bristol area so I don't see how it can be invalid.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Looking at NRE and BRFares it seems OK to me.
The only restrictions on the ticket are Not Via Birmingham, and not before 0830 M-F.
There appears to be no restriction on route or break of journey.
NRE allows routes to Patchway via Hereford, Chepstow or Filton Abbey Wood/Bristol TM.
The restriction is W5 which is clearly designed by GWR for its local services via Cheltenham, but it is allowed on ATW routes as well.
ATW/LM don't have a OP Day Return to Newport via Hereford.

I'd maybe wait for a real fares expert to respond, though...

 

[tspaul26]

Subject to confirmation from one of the more experienced forum members, the proposed journey from Worcester to Newport using this ticket appears to be valid for the following reasons.

A.1. Worcester stations form part of a routeing group.

A.2. Patchway is associated with Newport S.wales routeing point.

A.3. There are no common routeing points.

A.4. Newport S.wales is appropriate because it passes the fares check under NFM64.

Allowed by any permitted at NFM64: SDS from WOF to NWP on route 00000: £11.50 is NOT more expensive than SOS from WOF to PWY on route 00000: £22.50.

A.6. The routeing code applicable is: WI.

A.7. Map WI shows as a permitted route: Worcester Group - Hereford - Newport S.wales.

A.5. The route is then completed by the shortest route from Newport S.wales to Patchway (i.e. through the Severn Tunnel).

E. There are no relevant negative easements that would prohibit this route.

A.4. The fare's route restriction is 'Not via Birmingham'. The proposed route does not go via Birmingham, so it is not prohibited by the fare route.

W5. The restriction code for the fare is W5, which does not prohibit break of journey. as such, the passenger may end the outward leg and commence the return leg at Newport pursuant to NRCOT n. 16.4.

Provided that the passenger obeys the time restrictions on the ticket, the proposed journey from Worcester to Newport would be valid using this fare on this route.

 

[soil]

Yes this comes down to Worcester - Patchway having a cheaper 'Not Via Birmingham' and an expensive 'Any Permitted' fare. While Worcester - Newport just has a mid-priced 'Any Permitted' fare.

Since there is no 'Not Via Birmingham' fare for Newport, the fares are compared based on the 'Any Permitted' fare, even though the Not Via Birmingham is less than half the price.

This basically comes down to having an expensive fare based on XC's rip-off Birmingham - Bristol fare, and a much cheaper fare based on a local journey on FGW.

Worcester - Newport via Hereford is obviously an entirely reasonable routeing, so this comes down to the expensive 'intercity' fare interacting with the local fare in an unexpected way.

 

[jednick]

I'm planning to do this trip tomorrow.

Please can somebody tell me what I need to do if the guard on the train challenges me?.

Would it help if, when I buy the ticket, I ask the person at the ticket office to confirm it's valid via Hereford & Newport?

What do I do if a member of train staff has read this and says something like "I know what you're up to, you intend to go to Newport really and not Patchway at all" ?

 

[tspaul26]

I'm planning to do this trip tomorrow.

Please can somebody tell me what I need to do if the guard on the train challenges me?.

Tell him that the route via Hereford and Newport is valid and that the ticket permits break of journey at Newport.

Would it help if, when I buy the ticket, I ask the person at the ticket office to confirm it's valid via Hereford & Newport?

You could ask for a printed itinerary together with a print-out of the full conditions applicable to the ticket. If the booking office refuses, make a note of the time, place and member of staff and come back to this forum for further advice.

What do I do if a member of train staff has read this and says something like "I know what you're up to, you intend to go to Newport really and not Patchway at all" ?

Tell him that the route via Hereford and Newport is valid and that the ticket permits break of journey at Newport.

If he still tries to make a fuss, make a written note of the interaction and come back to this forum for advice and assistance on what to do next.

 

[jednick]

Thanks, that's good advice.

I think I'm going to ask them to double check the ticket's valid via Hereford / Newport when I buy it and then ask them to print out an itenerary. Then if I get any problems, I'll show them the printout and say it's the way the ticket office sent me.

 

[extendedpaul]

Please post an update when you have completed your journey.

If all goes well I think I will still buy my ticket online rather than rock up at Newport Station to buy a ticket from Patchway! I will also print an itinerary from the NRE Journey Planner.

 

[yorkie]

Buy it from a ticket booking site and stick to the itinerary and no-one can justifiably claim the ticket isn't valid.

I tend to try to buy it from the train company who i am traveling with (or, if more than one, whoever operates the station or train where i may anticipate more likelihood of hassle).

Obtain seat reservations where necessary, as further evidence of the contract.

There is no need to mention the Routeing Guide when travelling as per the itinerary.

 

[yorkie]

Thanks, that's good advice.

I think I'm going to ask them to double check the ticket's valid via Hereford / Newport when I buy it and then ask them to print out an itenerary. Then if I get any problems, I'll show them the printout and say it's the way the ticket office sent me.

I would not advise this.

In my experience ticket office staff are far less willing to issue tickets for exotic itineraries than train crew are willing to honour them.

I would advise attending one of our free fares workshops.

 

[jednick]

I just did the journey with no problems at all.

My ticket wouldn't go through the barrier at Newport but I just showed my ticket to the attendant saying I'd return later.

 

[tspaul26]

I would not advise this.

In my experience ticket office staff are far less willing to issue tickets for exotic itineraries than train crew are willing to honour them.

I would advise attending one of our free fares workshops.

Booking office clerks also refuse to issue itineraries for simple journeys when the fancy takes them.

In this situation, I would get the clerk to issue the desired ticket first and then ask something along the lines of "By the way, what time is the next train down via Hereford and Newport?".

I've found this approach to be more successful than showing up and asking them to check esoteric routes. This way, the worst that happens is that the clerk refuses the printed itinerary, rather than the whole sale.

Incidentally, if a booking office ever refuses to provide a printout of the full conditions applicable to a fare (general and specific), then that is a much more serious matter: if the passenger is not given notice of the terms, they will not normally be incorporated into the contract at all. In those circumstances, I would be strongly inclined to bypass customer services and go straight to the relevant commercial or legal manager due to the specific legal implications.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Booking office clerks also refuse to issue itineraries for simple journeys when the fancy takes them.

In this situation, I would get the clerk to issue the desired ticket first and then ask something along the lines of "By the way, what time is the next train down via Hereford and Newport?".

I've found this approach to be more successful than showing up and asking them to check esoteric routes. This way, the worst that happens is that the clerk refuses the printed itinerary, rather than the whole sale.

Personally I would put it in journey planner on STaR and check for someone. Asking for a printout is fine with us however someone rocking up 5 minutes before a train is due in with a queue behind them who asks for a ticket faffs around paying for it walks away and then asks for a printout after I start serving the next customer do not endear themselves to me or the other customers.

If your asking for something out the ordinary like the above case do turn up in plenty of time for the booking clerk to look into it.

TOD collectors who leave it late are also a bugbear in the office. "I've come to collect my ticket the names Mrs Smith" " but I've already paid for it" having eventually handed over the tickets and coupons they then look at them anxiously and then bombard us with questions about the tickets! Why buy on the Internet when you need customer service?

 

[tspaul26]

Thankfully, most clerks are both reasonable and helpful like Gareth Marston.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure why any sensible person would go away after buying a ticket and then return to request an itinerary a minute later.

It adds negligible time to the overall transaction if a printed itinerary is requested as the ticket prints and dealt with as the passenger tenders payment.

I have never been refused service in this order, whereas I have been refused service altogether on several occasions when asking for itineraries at the outset of the transaction. The worst was attempting to get an itinerary and reserve seats from Glasgow Central to London Paddington, when the clerks outright refused to use Journey Planner!

 

[Gareth Marston]

Thankfully, most clerks are both reasonable and helpful like Gareth Marston.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure why any sensible person would go away after buying a ticket and then return to request an itinerary a minute later.

It adds negligible time to the overall transaction if a printed itinerary is requested as the ticket prints and dealt with as the passenger tenders payment.

I have never been refused service in this order, whereas I have been refused service altogether on several occasions when asking for itineraries at the outset of the transaction. The worst was attempting to get an itinerary and reserve seats from Glasgow Central to London Paddington, when the clerks outright refused to use Journey Planner!

sensible = law of averages when your doing 200 plus issues in a day someone will not be!

 

[tspaul26]

sensible = law of averages when your doing 200 plus issues in a day someone will not be!

Rather like the odd client of mine who for some unfathomable reason will decide that lying to or keeping things from his own lawyer is a good idea. Few and far between, but the grief they can cause!

PS If someone does come back to your window and tries to butt in, do let me know and I'll introduce him to a Penang lawyer.