Cheshire Bus News (was East Cheshire Bus News)

[323235]

Surely though the value of the service between Grove Lane and Wilsmlow is such that it provides connections to Handforth and Wilslow with the added bonus of currently being effectively tagged onto Stagecoach's Grove Lane terminators giving extended opportunities between Stockport and Grove Lane even if it takes to long to get to Stockport for most nowadays.

if they could of, in an ideal world agreed a subsidy with Stagecoach it would have been a similar low level surely to the 9,000 quoted for the sunday service which Cheshire East paid before it was withdrawn.

 

[pemma]

if they could of, in an ideal world agreed a subsidy with Stagecoach it would have been a similar low level surely to the 9,000 quoted for the sunday service which Cheshire East paid before it was withdrawn.

Agreeing a subsidy with the current operator of a commercial service can only be done on an interim basis, which was why initially TfGM provided Arriva a subsidy to continue running services between Manchester Airport and Altrincham after they withdrew the commercial service but once it went out to tender properly it became a separate service run by a different operator.

 

[323235]

How does it work with Service 1 in Crewe then which is commercial with financial support of CEC and ones like the 374 in TfGM which was half commercial, half subsidised during the day for many years?

The 378 sunday service between Grove Lane and Wilmslow on Sunday was subsidised for many years and the 42B to Woodford has financial support between Bramhall and Woodford only on a weekday.

 

[pemma]

How does it work with Service 1 in Crewe then which is commercial with financial support of CEC and ones like the 374 in TfGM which was half commercial, half subsidised during the day for many years?

The 378 sunday service between Grove Lane and Wilmslow on Sunday was subsidised for many years and the 42B to Woodford has financial support between Bramhall and Woodford only on a weekday.

They'd have to put the section which no-one is willing to run commercially out to tender and select the best bid, with a diversion or extension of another service likely to win on cost grounds.

 

[Greybeard33]

They'd have to put the section which no-one is willing to run commercially out to tender and select the best bid, with a diversion or extension of another service likely to win on cost grounds.

The section of the 378 from Grove Lane to Wilmslow is an hour's round trip, plus 5 minutes recovery time, so Stagecoach can serve it with one extra vehicle. However, if it were split off to another operator, two vehicles would be needed to reliably maintain the hourly frequency. So Stagecoach would have lower costs and would be in pole position to win a tender, even with a bid well above cost price, unless the rival operator could interwork it with another service.

 

[pemma]

If a contract was awarded it could go to Arriva who could extend the 130 services which currently terminate at Colshaw Farm.

EDIT: Of course a Stagecoach bid might gain more quality points if they include a link to Stockport but then using double deckers on a lightly loaded section might not be as cost effective, especially if they have already planned to redeploy one decker elsewhere as a result of the truncation.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The 378 sunday service between Grove Lane and Wilmslow on Sunday was subsidised for many years and the 42B to Woodford has financial support between Bramhall and Woodford only on a weekday.

Is it not the case that Woodford is now classified as being an area in the Stockport part of Greater Manchester, not in Cheshire East.

 

[323235]

You've quoted a post which wasn't exclusively about CEC , Woodford is indeed TfGM otherwise it would have a far poorer service than it does now.

 

[pemma]

Someone's put up unofficial notices at Wilmslow Bank Square saying about the 378 withdrawal, which claims the reason for Stagecoach withdrawing that section is because most of the passengers are ENCTS holders and Stagecoach doesn't consider Cheshire East council's reimbursement enough to continue running services to Wilmslow.

 

[spargazer]

What is going on there!?, a massive speed ramp has appeared in the town centre, buses are being diverted all over the place, namely 37,88 and other locals. More to the point "where is the cash coming from":roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

You've quoted a post which wasn't exclusively about CEC , Woodford is indeed TfGM otherwise it would have a far poorer service than it does now.

Well, we have just had a posting about Altrincham. which also is not part of CEC.

 

[Greybeard33]

Someone's put up unofficial notices at Wilmslow Bank Square saying about the 378 withdrawal, which claims the reason for Stagecoach withdrawing that section is because most of the passengers are ENCTS holders and Stagecoach doesn't consider Cheshire East council's reimbursement enough to continue running services to Wilmslow.

Cheshire East’s website says about the 378:

Commercial service withdrawn from within Cheshire East. Will only operate within TfGM from 23/04/17.

Which perhaps lends some credence to that explanation.

I believe the only other Stagecoach service in Cheshire East is the 360 Stockport to Hayfield. But that only dips into Cheshire for a couple of miles at Disley, so hopefully it will not suffer the same fate.

 

[gnolife]

Cheshire East’s website says about the 378:

Which perhaps lends some credence to that explanation.

I believe the only other Stagecoach service in Cheshire East is the 360 Stockport to Hayfield. But that only dips into Cheshire for a couple of miles at Disley, so hopefully it will not suffer the same fate.

The 358 Stockport to Hayfield also dips in, but for an even shorter distance between Strines and Hague Bar

 

[pemma]

Statement from CEC on the 378

The council is currently gathering information on the service and will issue a further statement shortly.

CEC provides supported services where there are major gaps in commercial bus networks across the borough.

Currently, there are severe pressures on the limited resources available for local bus support. The council will carefully consider the impact of the cessation of this service in accordance with the council's policies on local bus support.

 

[spargazer]

What is going on there!?, a massive speed ramp has appeared in the town centre, buses are being diverted all over the place, namely 37,88 and other locals. More to the point "where is the cash coming from":roll:

The 88 and 37 are CEC, but not here but it could be interesting watching a Ferrari with its low bodywork skating over longitudinal ramp. It must add a few minutes to the journey times

 

[spargazer]

Someone's put up unofficial notices at Wilmslow Bank Square saying about the 378 withdrawal, which claims the reason for Stagecoach withdrawing that section is because most of the passengers are ENCTS holders and Stagecoach doesn't consider Cheshire East council's reimbursement enough to continue running services to Wilmslow.

we may get a section 106 grant to keep it going when all the new building work kicks off around Wilmslow, though I cannot see that a so many chances have been missed in the pass

 

[pemma]

The 88 and 37 are CEC, but not here but it could be interesting watching a Ferrari with its low bodywork skating over longitudinal ramp. It must add a few minutes to the journey times

I thought 37 was the Warrington Coachways (commercial) route between Warrington and Altrincham via High Legh, which no longer exists.

The 88 and 289 are CEC contracts but both get some funding from TfGM so TfGM would get a say in the routing within GM.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I thought 37 was the Warrington Coachways (commercial) route between Warrington and Altrincham via High Legh, which no longer exists.

The 88 and 289 are CEC contracts but both get some funding from TfGM so TfGM would get a say in the routing within GM.

How far would the 88 and the 289 get from Altrincham if they ended at the Cheshire East border?

 

[323235]

Manchester Airport tunnels roundabout for the 88 and Little Bollington for the 289?

Little Bollington and High Leigh are both shown as CEC territory on Wikipedia

 

[pemma]

How far would the 88 and the 289 get from Altrincham if they ended at the Cheshire East border?

289 would get to Little Bollington.

When the 37 bus was still operating it was suggested to Cheshire East that the next 289 contract should be for Northwich-Knutsford-High Legh-Lymm-Warrington as High Legh and Little Bollington would have still had a regular bus service to Altrincham (via the 37 and 35 routes) and it would be a lot more useful for Knutsford residents. However, Cheshire East didn't take the idea forward as Warrington BC wouldn't provide any funding for it.

 

[Greybeard33]

289 would get to Little Bollington.

When the 37 bus was still operating it was suggested to Cheshire East that the next 289 contract should be for Northwich-Knutsford-High Legh-Lymm-Warrington as High Legh and Little Bollington would have still had a regular bus service to Altrincham (via the 37 and 35 routes) and it would be a lot more useful for Knutsford residents. However, Cheshire East didn't take the idea forward as Warrington BC wouldn't provide any funding for it.

IIRC the 35 only started after the collapse of Warrington Coachways, to provide a partial replacement (off peak only) for the 37 on the Little Bollington route.

Before that, Network Warrington's only service to Altrincham was the 5 via Warburton.

 

[pemma]

IIRC the 35 only started after the collapse of Warrington Coachways, to provide a partial replacement (off peak only) for the 37 on the Little Bollington route.

Before that, Network Warrington's only service to Altrincham was the 5 via Warburton.

Found an old timetable from 2007: http://parish.cheshire.gov.uk/highlegh/misc/alt_war_bus.pdf

The other route was 38 not 35 and that was almost the same as the 5 route except the 38 served Statham instead of Stockton Heath. One positive thing about the old timetable was the departures roughly every 15 minutes from both Warrington and Altrincham, opposed to one operator running just ahead of the other as we've seen on other routes.

 

[Greybeard33]

Manchester Airport tunnels roundabout for the 88 and Little Bollington for the 289?

Little Bollington and High Leigh are both shown as CEC territory on Wikipedia

The Trafford/Cheshire East boundary runs along the River Bollin, so Little Bollington is in CE as you say. The 289 and 35 cross the boundary just north of the Bowdon roundabout on the A56. Bowdon is the only GM community they serve.

The 88 crosses into CE about halfway through the Runway 2 tunnel.

Found an old timetable from 2007: http://parish.cheshire.gov.uk/highlegh/misc/alt_war_bus.pdf

The other route was 38 not 35 and that was almost the same as the 5 route except the 38 served Statham instead of Stockton Heath. One positive thing about the old timetable was the departures roughly every 15 minutes from both Warrington and Altrincham, opposed to one operator running just ahead of the other as we've seen on other routes.

Bypassing the slow loop through Stockton Heath helped the 37/38 to garner more of the lucrative Thelwall to Warrington traffic - always the busiest part of the route. I recall that, in later years, Warrington Coachways retimed the 38 to run just ahead of the 5.

As shown on the map in that old timetable, the 38 used to make a loop through Dunham Town that is not served by the 5, and the 37 used to make an excursion to High Legh and back, whereas the 35, like the old 37A, goes straight along the A56.

 

[pemma]

The 88 crosses into CE about halfway through the Runway 2 tunnel.

D&G say Greater Manchester PlusBus tickets are valid on their services between Altrincham Interchange and Wilmslow Road, Airport Inn.

As shown on the map in that old timetable, the 38 used to make a loop through Dunham Town that is not served by the 5, and the 37 used to make an excursion to High Legh and back, whereas the 35, like the old 37A, goes straight along the A56.

The fact that there was a mainly hourly service between High Legh, Little Bollington and Altrincham is what prompted the suggestion that the 289 could run to Warrington instead of Altrincham.

However, by the time the 289 was up for renewal (which would have happened last year even if GHA hadn't gone out-of-business) Warrington Coachways had also gone out of business but that didn't stop Cheshire East reducing the number of services to Altrincham, in favour of combing the 289 contract with school service contracts. The first Knutsford-Altrincham-Knutsford working was removed so the same vehicle could be used to run an Over Peover to Knutsford Academy service and that service only exists because the 27 service was cut back from hourly to 2 hourly.

 

[Greybeard33]

The fact that there was a mainly hourly service between High Legh, Little Bollington and Altrincham is what prompted the suggestion that the 289 could run to Warrington instead of Altrincham.

However, by the time the 289 was up for renewal (which would have happened last year even if GHA hadn't gone out-of-business) Warrington Coachways had also gone out of business but that didn't stop Cheshire East reducing the number of services to Altrincham, in favour of combing the 289 contract with school service contracts. The first Knutsford-Altrincham-Knutsford working was removed so the same vehicle could be used to run an Over Peover to Knutsford Academy service and that service only exists because the 27 service was cut back from hourly to 2 hourly.

I guess most people travelling Knutsford to Altrincham end-to-end prefer 15 minutes on the train to 40 minutes on the 289. And I doubt that there are many High Legh users, so the 289 subsidy per passenger journey is probably quite high?

 

[pemma]

While High Legh may not be that big it no longer has a bus which someone working normal office hours can use, when not that long ago someone living in High Legh could work normal office hours in Altrincham, Lymm, Warrington or Knutsford and use the bus to get to work. Now they have a choice of car or bike.

Yes the 289 subsidy was very high and patronage at the Altrincham end was much lower than patronage at the Northwich end.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Revised First Potteries timetables (from 23 April) now up on their website.

Enjoy :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

While High Legh may not be that big it no longer has a bus which someone working normal office hours can use, when not that long ago someone living in High Legh could work normal office hours in Altrincham, Lymm, Warrington or Knutsford and use the bus to get to work. Now they have a choice of car or bike.

How will Pickmere fare after any changes made?

 

[pemma]

How will Pickmere fare after any changes made?

Pickmere still has most of the services it had under GHA but some only run to Knutsford rather than Altrincham and the evening services are later on weekdays due to the 289 bus being taken off for an afternoon school run.

There was a job advert for a Pickmere based business in the Knutsford Guardian a few weeks ago which said applicants must have a car as public transport is poor.

 

[pemma]

Revised First Potteries timetables (from 23 April) now up on their website.

Enjoy :roll:

The one that halves the number of services to Crewe?