Chester - Crewe trains

[leejayd]

I read online that we’re getting old London Underground d78 stock for Chester - Crewe. Some of it being 40 years old.

Chris Grayling was on the news saying we’d be getting new trains in the North West. Since when are 40 year old trains new?

I guess this is related to having English rail managed by Wales. I can understand the decision makers in South Wales don’t give two houts about Chester users travelling to Crewe.

Around we go again

 

[Elecman]

are Th3 230s earmarked for Crewe Chester I thought they weren’t?

 

[northwichcat]

Chris Gayling was on the news

Surely that's offensive - I mean to the gay community.

More seriously the new Wales & Borders franchise are acquiring D-Trains, eventually they'll be used to provide a half-hourly service between Bidston and Wrexham but initially they'll be used to provide an hourly Borderlands service, as well as being used on Crewe-Chester and Conwy Valley, to allow the 150s to be cascaded South to replace Pacers. Medium term (by 2022) it'll either be 170s or brand new trains on Chester-Crewe services but the D-Trains are intended as a long term solution for Bidston to Wrexham

 

[leejayd]

are Th3 230s earmarked for Crewe Chester I thought they weren’t?

Read towards bottom of this article

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/you-need-know-800m-worth-15034625

 

[6Gman]

I read online that we’re getting old London Underground d78 stock for Chester - Crewe. Some if it being 40 years old.

Chris Grayling was on the news saying we’d be getting new trains in the North West. Since when are 40 year old trains new?

I guess this is related to having English rail managed by Wales. I can understand the decision makers in South Wales don’t give two houts about Chester users travelling to Crewe.

Around we go again

As a regular user of the Crewe - Chester shuttle I'm really not bothered by their age. So long as they're reliable and comfortable.

 

[Elecman]

Well there’s no5 much that will be old left on them after fully rebuild by Vivarail, only the actual physical body shells, the interior and traction equipment will be brand new and the bogies are only 10 years old or thereabouts.

 

[leejayd]

How long will air con, charges for phone, WiFi last I wonder - seats look like they won’t last too. I suppose I have bad memories about the last time an old shell was used to build a new train (pacers)

 

[YorkshireBear]

They have bogies, they definitely won't be as bad as pacers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How long will air con, charges for phone, WiFi last I wonder - seats look like they won’t last too. I suppose I have bad memories about the last time an old shell was used to build a new train (pacers)

Pacers were new-build. The closest we ever got to the 230 before was something like the 442s being fitted with used traction gear from the 4-REP units, or the abortive Networker Classic project which involved a new monocoque body being mounted on a Mk1 EMU chassis.

The seats appear to be the originals which have managed to last 30+ years so far!

 

[leejayd]

Should this line be managed by an English operator?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Read towards bottom of this article
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/you-need-know-800m-worth-15034625

Chris Grayling wouldn't have been talking about Chester-Crewe, as that is a Wales & Borders service (except for the alternate VT Voyagers which won't change).
He was probably talking about the new Chester-Leeds service to be run by Northern with (eventually) new CAF DMU trains.
Anyway the ex-LU trains (class 230) are only an interim on the Chester-Crewe service until W&B gets its own new CAF DMUs (based at Chester) which are replacing 175s and 158s.
The new Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool service will initially be run by existing trains.

 

[leejayd]

They have bogies, they definitely won't be as bad as pacers.

Sorry I have no idea what bogies are. Do they allow for a smooth ride?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Should this line be managed by an English operator?

You could have Northern run it, but it'd just complicate things adding another TOC to the mix.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Should this line be managed by an English operator?

We've had that debate and the answer was to keep it with W&B like Shrewsbury-Birmingham (long-distance services stay with Virgin).
Operators aren't "English" or "Welsh", but the Welsh Government lets the Wales & Borders franchise, DfT lets most others.
DfT (ie Grayling) retains a veto on changes to W&B services outside Wales.
So far he has if anything set the bar lower than the Welsh Government on those services, not specifying anything new beyond the hourly local Chester-Liverpool service.

 

[30907]

Sorry I have no idea what bogies are. Do they allow for a smooth ride?

https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=tablet-android-samsung&ei=jqmWW5PPPKSCgAakpKPYDw&ins=&q=bogie
In short, yes. Used on the vast majority of passenger trains.

 

[tomuk]

but the D-Trains are intended as a long term solution for Bidston to Wrexham

The long term plan is to transfer Wrexham-Bidston to Merseyrail and run the service with the new Stadler 777 units. There will be a later bimode/battery batch with possible electrification to Heswall.

 

[Metal_gee_man]

Does this look like a London Underground Train?

 

[EE Andy b1]

Does this look like a London Underground Train?

Not any I've ever been on and looks a better layout than Class 345 and 700s.

 

[swt_passenger]

are Th3 230s earmarked for Crewe Chester I thought they weren’t?

Been discussed in quite a few threads here since the June official announcement by the incoming TOC.

 

[mmh]

Does this look like a London Underground Train?

It looks like yet another artists impression, but nothing like the artists impressions used by Transport For Wales, which feature seating straight out of an Underground train. I'll believe it won't look like a London Underground train when I see a real picture - all of the real pictures of 230s / D-Trains so far have looked very much like refurbished Underground trains.

When will the first TFW one appear?

 

[Jonfun]

It looks like yet another artists impression, but nothing like the artists impressions used by Transport For Wales, which feature seating straight out of an Underground train. I'll believe it won't look like a London Underground train when I see a real picture - all of the real pictures of 230s / D-Trains so far have looked very much like refurbished Underground trains.

When will the first TFW one appear?

We keep being told that "trains are just a bodyshell" and that with a full refurbishment a train can come out 'as new' and be whatever you want to make it.

But has this ever actually happened? The closest I think is the SWR 455s which have been refitted really nicely inside. Even so, they are still very definitely a dated train.

 

[daikilo]

We keep being told that "trains are just a bodyshell" and that with a full refurbishment a train can come out 'as new' and be whatever you want to make it.

But has this ever actually happened? The closest I think is the SWR 455s which have been refitted really nicely inside. Even so, they are still very definitely a dated train.

I agree that any train can be made to look new, but any politician who says that say a 769 or a 230 is new is lying. If only they would tell the truth.

 

[Cambrian359]

I read online that we’re getting old London Underground d78 stock for Chester - Crewe. Some of it being 40 years old.

Chris Grayling was on the news saying we’d be getting new trains in the North West. Since when are 40 year old trains new?

I guess this is related to having English rail managed by Wales. I can understand the decision makers in South Wales don’t give two houts about Chester users travelling to Crewe.

Around we go again

Did you read that on the daily post site? They’ve been stirring things up again today with their usual misleading headlines ,Crewe to Chester will get bran new trains from about 2023

 

[mmh]

Stirring things up or just reporting facts? They are re-tractioned and refurbished 40 year old 60mph ex-London Underground trains.

 

[Spartacus]

Let's have Class 101 power triples attempting to keep to 175 timings

 

[mmh]

Hah, yes. Can we have a sweepstake on when a 230 first appears on the coast or the marches line? After all it's not unknown for a 150 to replace a 175 on both!

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does this look like a London Underground Train?

Where did you find that? That is not the proposed layout that was shown in the KeolisAmey literature, which is like this:

Class 230 interior with original seating

Those seats appear to be Fainsa ironing boards, the armrest is quite distinctive. It also doesn't show the "walk through" gangways TfW have specified but LNR may or may not have done.

That looks more like the description (I've not seen any pictures) of the planned LNR layout.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I agree that any train can be made to look new, but any politician who says that say a 769 or a 230 is new is lying. If only they would tell the truth.

I don't believe anyone *has* said that either is new. TfW were, if I recall correctly, very careful not to say that.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Chester-Crewe is not one all-day shuttle.
There are several different diagrams which put other trains on the route, working to/from places like Birmingham, Holyhead, Swansea and Manchester (positioning for the Marches service).
These are mainly early and late, and includes the current LHCS.
The second train on the route is the Voyager service from Euston.
So no way is the service going to be all-230s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hah, yes. Can we have a sweepstake on when a 230 first appears on the coast or the marches line? After all it's not unknown for a 150 to replace a 175 on both!

About the same time we see a LNR one running Euston to Northampton fasts, i.e. probably never. There are only going to be 5 of them (4 diagrammed, one spare), it's just a case of finding a use for 2 of those until the Borderlands timetable enhancements start.