Child ticket proof

[156441]

So today I refused to sell 2 'children' child tickets. In my eyes the looked older than 16, I had already refused another person a child ticket for no proof of age and so thought I was being fair in continuing this stance.

The only thing they could offer as ID was a tatty looking 'child library card' no DOB or even a legible name on it.

Later on in the journey after they had got off another passenger pulled me to one side who heard the conversation and told me although correct and professional she thought I was harsh and asked me what she expected them to provide as ID.

Now this got me thinking what can older teenagers carry as proof of age? One girl presented me with a photocopy of her passport today but this seems a little over the top.

So my question is what would you class as acceptable proof of age?
I know in Manchester we have the 'IGO' card and in Derbyshire they have the 'B Line' but these cost money to buy and because they last until the end of that persons final school year don't always prove that the person is under 16.

Do any of our younger members have any good means of proof?

 

[transportphoto]

I carry an RSP 3588\11 Child Rate season ticket photocard, with me though the photo needs replacing now, it's no better than my nearly out of date passport would be ID wise now! Though I'm still me and it will do right up to the day before my 16th! I got the photocard for free from Barking ticket office a few years back.

This scan is taken from the RUK Ticket Stock Gallery:

Across the photo, underneath the BR arrows is the words 'CHILD RATE' - though mine is non-barcoded.

TP

 

[Trainfan344]

I have the opposite problem, No ID, but nearly 18 (one week tomorrow), you see the problem.

 

[soil]

Previous thread:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=33846

 

[156441]

Ta for that will have a read through now. I'm useless at finding things on forum searches.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Didn't really come to a conclusion the other thread.
But can it be said you can get a BR child photo card for free?

 

[transportphoto]

But can it be said you can get a BR child photo card for free?

Yes, just take a passport sized (doesn't have to be passport quality) photo down to any staffed ticket office along with proof of age (ideally photographic) and Bob's your uncle! If any Revenue Staff question it, I won't be impressed.

 

[maniacmartin]

And of course take proof of lack of age when getting the child photocard!

 

[trentside]

So my question is what would you class as acceptable proof of age?

Unless I'm absolutely certain they're over 16, then I don't jump straight to asking for ID. Here in Lincolnshire, we have 'Citizen Cards' issued by the County Council - though not to all children, so we tend to get a mix of these, child rate photocards and passports or passport photocopies. I'm willing to accept out of date passports so long as the photograph is a decent likeness.

I'll usually ask them their age, and date of birth - check those add up and that they've not stumbled over them. For example, someone says "I'm eight...... fifteen" then it's ID or adult fare. You can also try others, like "When is it you turn eighteen?" or "Are you at college?" and check the answers. I also have a sneaky look into purses of wallets where possible, a drivers licence or 16-25 Railcard is a dead giveaway that someone is telling porkies

As far as I'm concerned, anyone asking for child rate during school times gets asked their age and date of birth as far as I'm concerned. During school holidays, I tend to be a bit more lenient but will randomly ask ages - especially with larger groups. I don't consider this 'harsh' by any means.

 

[elarchibaldo]

So today I
refused to sell 2 'children' child tickets. In my eyes the looked older
than 16, I had already refused another person a child ticket for no
proof of age and so thought I was being fair in continuing this stance.

The only thing they could offer as ID was a tatty looking 'child library
card' no DOB or even a legible name on it.

Later on in the journey after they had got off another passenger pulled
me to one side who heard the conversation and told me although correct
and professional she thought I was harsh and asked me what she expected
them to provide as ID.

Now this got me thinking what can older teenagers carry as proof of age?
One girl presented me with a photocopy of her passport today but this
seems a little over the top.

So my question is what would you class as acceptable proof of age?
I know in Manchester we have the 'IGO' card and in Derbyshire they have
the 'B Line' but these cost money to buy and because they last until the
end of that persons final school year don't always prove that the
person is under 16.

Do any of our younger members have any good means of proof?

Im always asked. I have a child season ticket card to prove that Im 15. Greater Manchester ticket inspections always involve the same things. "How old are you?" "date of birth" and so-on. I understand you are trying to catch fare dodgers, so showing ID doesn't bother me. Being 15 and 6 foot 3 is rather fun actually

 

[maniacmartin]

What's most frustrating as a fare-paying passenger is witnessing people ahead of you being sold child tickets when they're clearly not children, presumably as the clerk doesn't want the confrontation

 

[Oswyntail]

... Being 15 and 6 foot 3 is rather fun actually

What's most frustrating as a fare-paying passenger is witnessing people ahead of you being sold child tickets when they're clearly not children, ...

Nice juxtaposition!
What is clearly needed is an ID card issued to all children, preferably free of charge, showing their DOB, which would be accepted by shops, travel and anywhere else where age restrictions might apply.

 

[Crossover]

On a forum meet some time ago, a member presented an Oyster Zip card...on a Northern service in West Yorkshire...the guard was a bit confused!

 

[MikeWh]

On a forum meet some time ago, a member presented an Oyster Zip card...on a Northern service in West Yorkshire...the guard was a bit confused!

If it's an 11-15 one then it doesn't prove age under 16 because it is valid until the end of September after the child becomes 16.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

What's most frustrating as a fare-paying passenger is witnessing people ahead of you being sold child tickets when they're clearly not children, presumably as the clerk doesn't want the confrontation

Some people, including some members of this forum it seems, believe that the ticket clerks should sell whatever they are asked for, regardless of whether the passenger is actually entitled to it or even if it is valid, so some clerks really don't want the hassle of arguing that out when there is a queue of people to serve before a train arrives.

 

[DJ737]

G'day

So if a parent or grandparent goes to a ticket window and asks for a child ticket, do they actually have to produce the child?
They could be buying something like a all line rover as a present for someone.

Cheers
DJ737
Melbourne, Australia

 

[Spaceflower]

All it takes is a little empathy.

What would the OP have done if that person(s) didn't have the money for full fare out of curiosity?

There's consistency and there' common sense in my opinion. You can quite quickly back yourself into a corner by being a bit 'gung ho' in my opinion

 

[maniacmartin]

G'day

So if a parent or grandparent goes to a ticket window and asks for a child ticket, do they actually have to produce the child?
They could be buying something like a all line rover as a present for someone.

Well, I've been asked to produce multiple railcards before when buying a few tickets..

I think it's quite obvious when the ticket is going to be used for immediate travel by the purchaser. Of course the proof of age is something that should be checked by the gateline or on-board staff, given that tickets can indeed be purchased for others. But in practice, that rarely happens.

 

[yorkie]

Ticket clerks should apply common sense (e.g. as applied by Trentside). Insisting that railcards and proof of age is shown for passengers who are not present, e.g. tickets for future travel, is just daft. The solution is to buy online, so they are doing themselves out of a job effectively!

However I have seen people obviously extremely likely to be over 16 ask for child tickets, for immediate travel (sometimes ON the train) and the tickets have been issued without question. I think that some guards/ticket clerks must think that the average 15 year old looks a lot older than the reality. Yes there are some that look a lot older but there are a hugely disproportionate and unbelievable number of older looking 15 year olds apparently using public transport.

I've known people in their 20s be offered child tickets by conductors.

 

[thelongestroad]

Everyone knows every child who travels on the railway is 15. They are though, aren't they?! It's the stock response when asked. I emphasise with the people that are genuinely 15.

What's the official line? Does age evidence have to be presented if asked? Can we refuse to sell a child ticket?

And... does anyone know any trick questions to catch the liers out?

 

[221129]

What are the options A Guard/RPI/Gateline Assistant has if someone refuses to give their date of Birth when they are actually 15? (For example a mouthy teenager?)

 

[theblackwatch]

Being 15 and 6 foot 3 is rather fun actually

I doubt that's the case if you have to travel on one of the former Merseyrail 'Pacers'!

A friend of mine who was a guard at one time would sometimes ask "are you 17?" when asked for a child ticket by someone who he suspected was not under 16. If the reply was "no, I'm only 16", then he would respond with "that's full fare then".

 

[ANorthernGuard]

An igo is a no go as you can be 16 and hold one. If I believe that they are 16 or over I charge them adult fare. For I.d I suggest a photocopy of the front of their passport or a national recognised scheme. Not full proof but its better than nowt.

 

[transportphoto]

An igo is a no go as you can be 16 and hold one. If I believe that they are 16 or over I charge them adult fare. For I.d I suggest a photocopy of the front of their passport or a national recognised scheme. Not full proof but its better than nowt.

So would you accept one of the photocards I referenced in my post earlier?

TP

 

[Temple Meads]

I'm now 16, but being 6ft and fairly mature looking I did have issues with proving I was entitled to child tickets from age 14 onwards, in the end I just made a photocopy of my birth certificate, which (although not photo ID) did the trick.

The most hassle I ever got was at a revenue block at Bristol Temple Meads, which resulted in a call to my Mother from an RPI, I'm not sure if that's a usual step for Revenue to take, but I didn't have any objections being a bona fida passenger. (I didn't have ID at that point, but I did the photocopy as a direct result of that "stop").

 

[Liam]

The number of times I have seen people try to get on the bus as a half, argue with the driver for a bit, driver gives up and issues the ticket.

I remember my cousin telling me about the time when she got the bus to Glasgow with my gran. My gran had a companion bus pass, so an adult companion could also travel for free. The only problem was that the week before my cousin had spent 5 minutes trying to tell the same bus driver she was a child...

 

[danfitz123]

I know arriva buses have a U16 card that they send for free. Would this be accepted by a guard seems it's from a reliable source?

 

[trentside]

I know arriva buses have a U16 card that they send for free. Would this be accepted by a guard seems it's from a reliable source?

If it has a photograph and date of birth on it, from my point of view as a ticket clerk, that would be fine.

 

[northwichcat]

An igo is a no go as you can be 16 and hold one. If I believe that they are 16 or over I charge them adult fare. For I.d I suggest a photocopy of the front of their passport or a national recognised scheme. Not full proof but its better than nowt.

I've seen some of your colleagues asking kids from Cheshire to produce one of those if they want a child fare then we the passenger looks confused they usually say something along the lines of "This time I'll sell you a child ticket but next time you're paying an adult fare unless you have proof."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I know arriva buses have a U16 card that they send for free. ?

It seems to vary between regions.

Hertfordshire and Southend sections of the Arriva site both mention purchasing a card:
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/landing.aspx?id=15171
http://www.arrivabus.co.uk/tickets-and-fares/

 

[elarchibaldo]

I am often told that my documents aren't mine. It's claimed "They are your younger brother's pal..."
I am the youngest, and it's hardly my fault that I am 6 foot 3 to be honest.

 

[trivran]

Ticket offices have never had any qualms selling me child rate tickets (even if they can't find Kirton Lindsey on the computer) apart from one time at Euston where two Virgin employees wanted proof of age, though that eventually resulted in me gaining £10 from one of them. It's the same story on train, even when travelling first class - guard, RPI, etc. will check, be satisfied and move on. Maybe it's a South East thing.