Children's Online Privacy Protection Act (COPPA)

[Giugiaro]

There's been growing talks over the American Children's Online Privacy Protection Act, or COPPA as most people have been referring to it, as this is going to have a huge impact to several Youtube creators and users, as well as potentially other websites.

I believe around our hobby the biggest concerns will be related to Railway Simulators and Scale Modelling mainly, as these are considered (by the very ambiguous text in the revised act) as "games/toys that appeal to children".

They have made clear during the press conference that the FCT will target and fine individual channels/creators. The fines of around $42,000 will be applied to any video that mislabelled as "not for kids" but the FCT believes it to be such, individually. And Youtube is enforcing these rules everywhere and to everyone, regardless of the Creator/Channel being based in the USA, or its main audience being North American.

Also, marking content or as channel as being "for kids" has a lot of downsides, like removing the ability for the videos to be featured, send subscription and bell notifications and cutting the advert revenue to just 10%, among others.

Any thoughts about this? The legal and financial implications have already caused some people to preemptively shut down their Youtube channels, including myself:

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

YouTube has seriously lost its way. Yes there are problems with "bad actors" but YouTube's willingness to kow-tow to every US conservative campaign group that makes a fuss is gradually killing off the creativity on the platform. Though in some ways YouTube's ever increasing commercialisation is just as bad. There is still lots of good stuff on there but I think the joy is dying away. I do wonder whether an alternative to YT based outside the US might eventually become popular.

Having said all that I think much of the internet could be described similarly. In a few years we may well say that the golden era of the www finished during the mid to late 2010s.

 

[AlterEgo]

COPPA refers to content made specifically to appeal to children, like Kids’ TV or YouTube videos of nursery rhymes.

Videos of adult hobbies that may attract minor viewers like model railways and railway simulators are certainly not what the act envisages.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9528076

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I do wonder whether an alternative to YT based outside the US might eventually become popular.

That would not make any difference in terms of avoiding these rules unless you set it so that it would not be available within US territory.

An analogy is if you work for a small company which is wholly British in that the offices are all in the UK, the staff are all based in the UK, the trading is entirely within the UK... but it was owned by a big company which has a listing on Wall Street, then the small company would have to comply to the US Sarbanes-Oxley Act* ( SOX ) in all respects.

Similarly, if you travel to or through the USA you have to comply with all the USA requirements for entry.

A video platform, therefore, would have to comply with all the US regulations if it was to be accessible in the USA.


*An anti-fraud law mandating specific accountability procedures which was introduced in the wake of the Enron scandal, although ironically it would not in itself prevent another Enron because that was a conspiracy amongst much of the senior management. SOX compliance procedures would only pick up if there was a rogue individual or two.

 

[Howardh]

If one wishes to avoid US regulations there's always Russia! Anyhow, anything, whatever it takes to avoid the US putting its mucky paws on the web. And as far as kids are concerned there's always the United States of Parent. Their job.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Videos of adult hobbies that may attract minor viewers like model railways and railway simulators are certainly not what the act envisages.

However the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Ah well. The actual kids can be found on TikTok dancing in their pants for likes.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

That would not make any difference in terms of avoiding these rules unless you set it so that it would not be available within US territory.

And that should be done by the Americans themselves if they deem it necessary. The Chinese seem to have no problem controlling internet traffic crossing their borders. But the US would have to decide whether it wants to adhere to its own constitutional principle of free speech or whether it would prefer some sort of internet traffic war. I suspect that they would actually have more to lose than anyone else so the rest of the world should simply call the Americans' bluff. Same as the Amazon tax situation...

 

[Lucan]

The fines of around $42,000 will be applied to any video that mislabelled as "not for kids" but the FCT believes it to be such

I'm confused. Did you mean if it is not labelled as "not for kids", but the FCT believe it should be?

I wonder how this will sit with the very strong principle in the USA of "freedom of speech" which they take to an extreme. It originated because many early settlers were there because they were being suppressed for religious and political heresy in Europe (some political heresy remains a crime here today). Anyone who frequents predominantly USA forums will know what I mean by some of the monumental trolling seen there : such as multi-page pasted rants, with swastikas, racism, the lot. Some of it is amusing (if I gave examples here I'd end up in court), but it gets tiresome having to scroll down through it to reach genuine posts, and the users get to ignore it. The mods don't remove it as doing so would infringe their First Amendment.

 

[LOL The Irony]

I have a brilliant idea; It's called "Lets move to DailyMotion & BITchute and make youtube go down the pan". We killed MySpace by moving to other sites, so we can do the same with youtube.

 

[yorkie]

One of the factors to consider is:

• Whether the language of the video is intended for children to understand.

So, be sure to use words like 'ostentatious' , 'ostensibly' etc; an average 12 year old has no idea what these words means

 

[sprunt]

The mods don't remove it as doing so would infringe their First Amendment.

No it wouldn't. The First Amendment offers protection only against government restrictions on free speech (Congress shall make no law...). The moderators of a private forum may allow or disallow anything they want - it is in fact their right to do this that is protected by the First Amendment.

 

[Giugiaro]

I'm confused. Did you mean if it is not labelled as "not for kids", but the FCT believe it should be?

For what I read, it goes both ways.

1. If your content is labelled "for kids", but the FTC finds it has improper content for kids, you'll be fined for a mislabel.
2. If your content is labelled "not for kids", but the FTC finds it to have content targeted for kids, you'll also be fined for a mislabel.

The core of the issue here is that:

• The guidelines are too vague/broad;
• The penalties are too high;
• You're dependent on what the FTC thinks your content is meant for, regardless of what you think your content is meant for, or even of age restrictions you might have imposed.

This is particularly nasty to those who sit in the "gray zone" of the law, like AFOLs (Adult Fans of Lego), independent animators, scale modelers and gamers.

And, because this is a federal law, it applies to all platforms based or available in the US.
I've went to research if non-US platforms and content creators can also be fined by the FTC, and it seems they have the power to apply for international litigations.

 

[Giugiaro]

The words of scale model builders.

 

[LOL The Irony]

Question: How would the FTC be able to fine me, since I don't live in the US and extraditing me would cost more than the fine?

 

[91ntercity_J]

Will trainspotting/train filming videos also be affected by this ‘law’

 

[Darandio]

Will trainspotting/train filming videos also be affected by this ‘law’

Only for videos featuring Voyagers. Trump has already been briefed and will fast track any extradition request for those flouting this rule.

 

[Cowley]

Only for videos featuring Voyagers. Trump has already been briefed and will fast track any extradition request for those flouting this rule.

I generally can’t stand Trump, but on this issue...

 

[malc-c]

By definition, in the US a child is under 13 year of age, hence why Youtube now have an age limit (although I have no idea how they can check and enforce this) after being fined $170m The big issue is that there are currently no tools available to content creators to check each video complies with the guidelines, and this would need to come form the FTC as its whatever they deem as targeted at kids. Some creators have sighted their channel analytics which may well show that only adults watch their videos, but that's not to say that whatever algorithms the FTC will use throws out a video that is deemed as marked incorrectly. However people are panicking. Just because the FTC can fine a creator $42K per video doesn't mean it will. It will have to consider all factors. The size of the channel, the income the creator is earning, their ability to pay. Some model railway channels have over 100 videos, and if it was deemed that every video was mislabelled I doubt they would pursue the individual for $42m if their total asses amounted to a few grand.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

You Tube's new rules are now in place. The most obvious difference is to make the viewing of any content that's designated as aimed at children very much less convenient as such videos cannot be added to a Watch Later list. Turns out the reason is less to do with child protection per se and more to conform with regulations covering the targeting of advertising. Essentially You Tube's algorithms are so full of data capture functions that they have had to take action against themselves! Most common reaction of viewers seems to be to highlight the hypocrisy of You Tube claiming that the platform is not intended for children (under 13s) while having a designated Kids channel. Another example of lawmakers being absolutely clueless as to how to deal with issues relating to the internet and the big tech companies being completely unable to avoid all-out commercialisation of their products and services. The joys of capitalism!

 

[Bletchleyite]

COPPA refers to content made specifically to appeal to children, like Kids’ TV or YouTube videos of nursery rhymes.

Videos of adult hobbies that may attract minor viewers like model railways and railway simulators are certainly not what the act envisages.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/9528076

Any law like that will get misused/misinterpreted, though - look at GDPR for an example.