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Chiltern Oxford Link completed

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Cherry_Picker

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Sensible? Depends on your point of view. And quite probably not if lots of confused tourists find themselves dumped at a great big car park nowhere near the bits of Oxford they have come to visit until the route into the city is complete.

That is a short term problem though, it will go away once the through line is complete. People travelling into Oxford from Paddington, on XC services and from the Cotswolds won't be affected by the two stations called Oxford issue so it's really only about getting the messaging right at Marylebone for a year or two.

The reasons to name the station 'Oxford Parkway' are there for all to see, it will certainly be easier to generate awareness of the station beyond the immediate local area and while it won't be a huge money spinner for Chiltern maybe even take more cars off the road into central Oxford.
 

jimm

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I also think there have been a few 'cloud cuckoo land' proposals clouding the ideas of local politicians, such as the idea of having a completely new terminus station at Oxpens, which always seemed to disregard the fact that quite a few trains actually headed further north, and the railway doesn't actually revolve around services to Paddington...

No, it wasn't for a terminus, it was for a new through station at Oxpens to replace the existing station. You seem to be muddling up that proposal and a later proposal to build a south-facing bay platform just across Botley Road from the station, alongside the car park, which the council couldn't get funding from the Government for. This has now been overtaken by the moves to rebuild on the current site.


No different to the position that many tourists currently find themselves in...

I suppose this is meant to be a joke about the location of the current station but it really isn't as far to walk as people like to make out and there are buses every couple of minutes from the forecourt or the road outside - and it's a sight more central than Bristol Temple Meads, Cheltenham Spa, etc

Appreciated and I understand a joint team is now working on the whole thing. Sounds as though you are involved, so all the best with the work.

No, just a local passenger and interested observer of the (complex) situation.

That is a short term problem though, it will go away once the through line is complete. People travelling into Oxford from Paddington, on XC services and from the Cotswolds won't be affected by the two stations called Oxford issue so it's really only about getting the messaging right at Marylebone for a year or two.

The reasons to name the station 'Oxford Parkway' are there for all to see, it will certainly be easier to generate awareness of the station beyond the immediate local area and while it won't be a huge money spinner for Chiltern maybe even take more cars off the road into central Oxford.

Well we'll just have to see whether the 'messaging' and indeed Chiltern's advertising is 'right', won't we? They are not always whiter than white when it comes to a bit of spin. Will they tell people who turn up at Marylebone wanting central Oxford to go to Paddington during the interim phase?

And talking of Chiltern spin, there is a very good reason why the name Oxford Parkway is dubious. In practical terms, it won't be much of an access or exit point for large parts of the city, due to the traffic at busy times of the day, especially if it generates even more road traffic. Oxford North & Kidlington Parkway would be more honest, indicating both its general geographical location and that it lies on the doorstep of a 'village' of 17,000 people which hasn't had a station for almost 50 years.

It better had be a huge money spinner for Chiltern, because if it isn't then they are going to have very big financial problems trying to pay for the Oxford project. The Parkway station is the key to the whole scheme, by attracting lots of Oxfordshire-London commuters off FGW, the M40 coaches and anywhere else Chiltern can get them from.

It's not intended for people going into Oxford. The city is already ringed by bus park-and ride sites which deliver people into the heart of the city centre, including the Water Eaton park-and-ride, right next to where Chiltern's station will be built.
 

The Ham

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And talking of Chiltern spin, there is a very good reason why the name Oxford Parkway is dubious. In practical terms, it won't be much of an access or exit point for large parts of the city, due to the traffic at busy times of the day, especially if it generates even more road traffic. Oxford North & Kidlington Parkway would be more honest, indicating both its general geographical location and that it lies on the doorstep of a 'village' of 17,000 people which hasn't had a station for almost 50 years.

It better had be a huge money spinner for Chiltern, because if it isn't then they are going to have very big financial problems trying to pay for the Oxford project. The Parkway station is the key to the whole scheme, by attracting lots of Oxfordshire-London commuters off FGW, the M40 coaches and anywhere else Chiltern can get them from.

It's not intended for people going into Oxford. The city is already ringed by bus park-and ride sites which deliver people into the heart of the city centre, including the Water Eaton park-and-ride, right next to where Chiltern's station will be built.

Most people will understand what they are getting themselves into by going to a Prakway station, as it's not like there aren't many others. For instance Southampton Airport Parkway is better located to get to Eastliegh than Southampton.

It's like most people when seeing that certain low cost airlines fly to cities they check to see how far away they are going to end up.
 

route:oxford

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I suppose this is meant to be a joke about the location of the current station but it really isn't as far to walk as people like to make out and there are buses every couple of minutes from the forecourt or the road outside - and it's a sight more central than Bristol Temple Meads, Cheltenham Spa, etc

Erm, no. Tourists don't just arrive in Oxford by train.

Some of them actually arrive by car, and park in the park and ride.

Although some do venture into town and find it surprising that it costs £27 to park for the day and the machines are cash only...
 

jimm

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Erm, no. Tourists don't just arrive in Oxford by train.

Some of them actually arrive by car, and park in the park and ride.

Although some do venture into town and find it surprising that it costs £27 to park for the day and the machines are cash only...

Erm, no, we're talking about rail-borne tourists here, this being a rail forum, not those who drive themselves, who, I suspect, are a tiny minority of those making day trips out from London, once you add up rail and M40 coach passengers. Catch a train at Paddington and you arrive in central Oxford. For that initial period of Chiltern operations you won't but, as I said, whether Chiltern will feel inclined to point this out is another matter.

Most people will understand what they are getting themselves into by going to a Prakway station, as it's not like there aren't many others. For instance Southampton Airport Parkway is better located to get to Eastliegh than Southampton.

It's like most people when seeing that certain low cost airlines fly to cities they check to see how far away they are going to end up.

Most people will understand, will they? If you are not interested in railways or live miles from a part of the country where such stations exist, or abroad, you may very well not have a clue what it means.

To take one existing example in, er, Oxfordshire, Didcot Parkway is in the centre of the town.

When Chiltern's wheeze for Oxford was mentioned in the office I work in, the first reaction (not from me) was that it was a pretty dishonest name, given the location and the difficulties of getting to it from much of the city - the last thing any part of Oxford needs, frankly, is another traffic magnet.
 

DynamicSpirit

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What's wrong with the old name?

Oxford General.

Well I don't know about tripleseis, but my suggestion was intended somewhat as a tongue-n-cheek one. If I'm being completely serious, I don't think there's anything wrong with the current name of 'Oxford'.
 

Cherry_Picker

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Well I don't know about tripleseis, but my suggestion was intended somewhat as a tongue-n-cheek one. If I'm being completely serious, I don't think there's anything wrong with the current name of 'Oxford'.

There is nothing wrong with the name. There will be a large increase in people asking for clarification as to which station they need to see the sights in Oxford (it happens in my neck of the woods with Warwick/Warwick Parkway and with Birmingham International/Birmingham New Street) but as long as the messaging is sound then it's a minor problem. The problems it will cause are massively outstripped by the net gain the area will have from improved transport links.
 

Eagle

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Regarding Warwick and Warwick Parkway, the town station has signs saying "for Warwick town centre, Warwick Castle and local buses" and there is a similar announcement on the screens on 168s.

Presumably something similar could happen at Oxford.
 

route:oxford

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Erm, no, we're talking about rail-borne tourists here, this being a rail forum, not those who drive themselves, who, I suspect, are a tiny minority of those making day trips out from London, once you add up rail and M40 coach passengers. Catch a train at Paddington and you arrive in central Oxford. For that initial period of Chiltern operations you won't but, as I said, whether Chiltern will feel inclined to point this out is another matter.

No need to spin nonsense. You clearly said:-

lots of confused tourists find themselves dumped at a great big car park nowhere near the bits of Oxford they have come to visit

I pointed out that the park & rides are exactly the same place that tourists who travel by car (and some by coach) arrive in the city. Simply hop on the P&R buses to complete the journey.

You certainly didn't specify rail-borne tourists.
 

JGR

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Tourists mistakenly arriving at the parkway station does not seem like a catastrophe to me. Given that it's next to an existing Park and Ride, there'll be no shortage of buses heading between the station and the actual town centre, no different to the current station. I would be quite surprised if the bus frequency wasn't increased once the station opens (or some other arrangement implemented, like synchronised timetables).
 

Eagle

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And no shortage of trains either; once EWR is up and running there'll be four trains an hour to Oxford General (not that that's particularly usefully sited for tourists either).
 

Andyjs247

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Most people will understand, will they? If you are not interested in railways or live miles from a part of the country where such stations exist, or abroad, you may very well not have a clue what it means.

To take one existing example in, er, Oxfordshire, Didcot Parkway is in the centre of the town.

Wasn't that one of the reasons the council wanted to rename Didcot Parkway? ie because the perception is that it is *not* in the centre of town.

When Chiltern's wheeze for Oxford was mentioned in the office I work in, the first reaction (not from me) was that it was a pretty dishonest name, given the location and the difficulties of getting to it from much of the city - the last thing any part of Oxford needs, frankly, is another traffic magnet.

As others have mentioned it's not as if you can't get a bus to central Oxford so I don't see the problem. It will also be possible to catch the no. 2 Oxford-Kidlington bus from the station which is not only more frequent but runs later than any of the dedicated services which terminate at the park & ride currently. It will be interesting to know what the balance of originating and destination flows will be - I suspect it will be as much a destination as origin given time.
 

HowardGWR

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Wasn't that one of the reasons the council wanted to rename Didcot Parkway? ie because the perception is that it is *not* in the centre of town.

I am not aware that Didcot has a centre (other than the the GWS site :) ). When I was once looking for housing back in the 70s, I decided that the place only existed for people to commute to somewhere else. On a recent visit all I could see was a rather scrappy shopping precinct, nothing else. So perhaps Parkway is a justified naming. If a Didcotonian is put out, I do apologise, but that's how it looked to me. I expect it will be much improved when the cooling towers are demolished.
 

The Planner

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There is now a vast amount of housing to the north of the town and railway line and a lot more being built to the west.
 

jimm

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I pointed out that the park & rides are exactly the same place that tourists who travel by car (and some by coach) arrive in the city. Simply hop on the P&R buses to complete the journey.

You certainly didn't specify rail-borne tourists.

I know what I said, thanks. Why should I have had to specify rail-borne tourists? This is a thread about a railway project on a forum called RailUK Forums, so as far as I'm concerned it was stark staring obvious I was talking about rail-borne tourists, who if they catch a train to 'Oxford' in the early days of the Chiltern service, may not expect to wind up at a car park.

And if I do have to be specific for you, then I will specify rail-borne tourists travelling from London to Oxford, many of them doing so on day trips, who won't have a car to begin with. Who might appreciate being told that it is actually possible to reach the centre of Oxford on a train without needing to crawl down Banbury Road on a bus to complete their journey.

Which is a rather different matter from people in cars being encouraged to use a park-and-ride, an entirely sensible thing to do in a city with Oxford's chronic congestion. The rail-borne tourists haven't got a car with them in the first place, have they?

And no shortage of trains either; once EWR is up and running there'll be four trains an hour to Oxford General (not that that's particularly usefully sited for tourists either).

Do try to read the thread before posting. The point I was making was about the period when Chiltern's Oxford service will only get as far as the parkway station, not to the city centre, and whether Chiltern would have the honesty to say so during this period, rather than gloss it over - but if I am to believe several other posters, glossing it over is just fine, as people can get on a bus, even if there's a train service straight to the place they want to go, running on another route.

There is nothing wrong with the name. There will be a large increase in people asking for clarification as to which station they need to see the sights in Oxford

So are you saying that it will be confusing but that's okay? I'd suggest that there is something wrong with the name if people need clarification.

If it was called Oxford North and Kidlington Parkway, then there's a fair chance that putting the clues in the name together, people could work out quite easily that it was not in the city centre from the word go. All that remains now is for Chiltern to revive 'the new station for Oxford' slogan they used in an advertising campaign a while ago, though on that occasion it was Haddenham & Thame Parkway (in buckinghamshire...).

And why Birmingham International still does not have airport in its name baffles me - an instant end to confusion over its whereabouts, airports not being noted for their central locations, with the odd exception.
 

The Planner

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And why Birmingham International still does not have airport in its name baffles me - an instant end to confusion over its whereabouts, airports not being noted for their central locations, with the odd exception.

They are pushing for it, but unless they cough up for it then I can't see it going anywhere.
 

The Planner

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Think about all the road signs, tweaking the internal TOC and NR systems, literature, publicising the switch over etc etc... it all has a cost. If it cost a few grand it would have been done by now.
 

Eagle

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With regards to Birmingham International, I note that the departure boards at Euston refer to it as "Birmingham Intl ". (Actually the plane symbol isn't that way round but you get the idea.)
 

MK Tom

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Including Kidlington in the Parkway name makes sense to me. Otherwise the perception of Kidlington being a giant village with no rail service will continue and people travelling to or from it after it opens may not realise it's gained a rail service.
 
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I think this thread shows why the Parkway suffix can be a little bit clumsy. Why not keep Oxford station known as Oxford, and the park and ride station known as 'Water Orton?'

Surely Oxfordshire commuters will be aware of Water Orton and its location relevant to both Oxford and Kidlington.

If Chiltern have renamed Water Orton 'Oxford Parkway' because it will be their terminus for a year or so, it seems to me narrow short-termism on their part.
 

Eagle

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I think this thread shows why the Parkway suffix can be a little bit clumsy. Why not keep Oxford station known as Oxford, and the park and ride station known as 'Water Orton?'

Because Water Orton is a station in Warwickshire. (You mean Water Eaton.) :p

Note that there is a recent precedent: Bishopton Park and Ride site is now known as Stratford Parkway. You could make the same argument about that one.
 
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