Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[The Planner]

That looks familiar....

 

[Chris B]

Now in the Oxford Mail....

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10426905.New_Oxford_London_rail_link_given_go_ahead/

 

[Eagle]

Through this project, Chiltern Railways will open the first new rail link between two major British cities for 100 years...

Nope. Although the only counterexample I can currently think of (that isn't a reopening) is the Hazel Grove chord in the 1980s, which created a new fast route between Manchester and Sheffield.

 

[gordonthemoron]

what about the then new chord that linked Manchester Picadilly to Leeds so TP services could be routed through Picadilly rather than Victoria? It may have been called the Windsor chord. That was either late 80s or early 90s

 

[Eagle]

what about the then new chord that linked Manchester Picadilly to Leeds so TP services could be routed through Picadilly rather than Victoria? It may have been called the Windsor chord. That was either late 80s or early 90s

No, the Windsor chord was the one that allowed services from Bolton to reach Piccadilly. All the lines and chords towards Leeds have been there for over 100 years.

 

[edwin_m]

Nope. Although the only counterexample I can currently think of (that isn't a reopening) is the Hazel Grove chord in the 1980s, which created a new fast route between Manchester and Sheffield.

The Selby diversion also created a new fast link between Doncaster and York (and points beyond in both directions), and HS1 created a new link between London and various places in Kent several of which would probably claim to be major centres. In all these cases the cities concerned were previously linked by rail so I would all were equally valid claims. The connections in central Belfast may have a claim too, assuming "British" means GBNI and not just GB.

Arguably the Windsor Link created a new "link" between the likes of Bolton and Stockport.

 

[JamesRowden]

Through this project, Chiltern Railways will open the first new rail link between two major British cities for 100 years...

Nope. Although the only counterexample I can currently think of (that isn't a reopening) is the Hazel Grove chord in the 1980s, which created a new fast route between Manchester and Sheffield.

Also the Jubilee line linking the City of Westminster with the City of London (at Canary Wharf) becuase they are officially two cities.

 

[RPM]

If I'm reading the Oxford Mail piece correctly they are suggesting it will be finished in Spring 2014, a full two years ahead of the actual opening date!

 

[swt_passenger]

If I'm reading the Oxford Mail piece correctly they are suggesting it will be finished in Spring 2014, a full two years ahead of the actual opening date!

The only reference to 2014 is:

“Construction work will begin this summer with the line between Bicester Town and Oxford expected to close in February 2014".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The Selby diversion also created a new fast link between Doncaster and York (and points beyond in both directions), and HS1 created a new link between London and various places in Kent several of which would probably claim to be major centres. In all these cases the cities concerned were previously linked by rail so I would all were equally valid claims. The connections in central Belfast may have a claim too, assuming "British" means GBNI and not just GB.

Arguably the Windsor Link created a new "link" between the likes of Bolton and Stockport.

The 2-mile deviation at Kidsgrove round the Harecastle Tunnel (1967), heralded at the time as the "first new main line since 1910", links Stoke and Manchester.

 

[swt_passenger]

PR people just love their 'firsts', or 'firsts for 100 years'; but they seem strangely unaware of what's gone on before or further away. Are they all based in London?

I remember someone announcing on behalf of TfL that an unassuming little bridge on the ELL (crossing the Regents Canal) was the first ever 'bowstring bridge' on the railway. Except there were dozens already, including for example the 150 year old High Level Bridge over the Tyne... :roll:

 

[Eagle]

Also the Jubilee line linking the City of Westminster with the City of London (at Canary Wharf) becuase they are officially two cities.

Last I checked, Canary Wharf was in the borough of Tower Hamlets. The easternmost limit of the City of London is Aldgate.

 

[RPM]

The only reference to 2014 is:

No way! That's just been re-written since my previous post. They clearly read this forum!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The 2-mile deviation at Kidsgrove round the Harecastle Tunnel (1967), heralded at the time as the "first new main line since 1910", links Stoke and Manchester.

True, but that was a diversion of an existing route rather than a new route.

 

[Eagle]

Arguably the Windsor Link created a new "link" between the likes of Bolton and Stockport.

As well as longer distance services such as Birmingham to Manchester to Glasgow (which were common in IC days).

 

[Chris B]

No way! That's just been re-written since my previous post. They clearly read this forum!

I rang the reporter & got him to correct it....after noticing it myself
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
East West Rail have also tweeted -

We're working to a target date of December 2017 for East West Rail services to be operational on the Bicester-Bletchley section

 

[Wolfie]

Also the Jubilee line linking the City of Westminster with the City of London (at Canary Wharf) becuase they are officially two cities.

Despite the close proximity of the relocated Billingsgate Market, which is owned by the City of London, Canary Wharf is not, and never has been, in the City. It falls within the London Borough of Tower Hamlets.

 

[NickBucks]

Chiltern Railways press release states that the service from Water Eaton Parkway should start in Spring 2015 with the full service to Oxford in 2016.
Given this further delay (the original aim was for a service by 2013) I do wonder how viable this service will be. With electrification on the way to Oxford via GWR how many passengers will want to take a slower route to London in what will then be almost heritage diesel stock ?

 

[tbtc]

Chiltern Railways press release states that the service from Water Eaton Parkway should start in Spring 2015 with the full service to Oxford in 2016.
Given this further delay (the original aim was for a service by 2013) I do wonder how viable this service will be. With electrification on the way to Oxford via GWR how many passengers will want to take a slower route to London in what will then be almost heritage diesel stock ?

In hindsight Chiltern would have been better starting the project sooner so that they'd have a half hourly Oxford - London service up and running before the GWML route sees periods of disruption during the electrification of the route through the Thames Valley.

Of course, when the idea of running Marylebone to Oxford was being prepared, the idea of electrifying the GWML wasn't known.

 

[The Planner]

It will be massively popular as Water Eaton Parkway will make them mahooosive amounts of cash from people who don't want the hassle of getting into Oxford. The route won't be much slower even when Oxford gets wires.

 

[edwin_m]

With electrification on the way to Oxford via GWR how many passengers will want to take a slower route to London in what will then be almost heritage diesel stock ?

Chiltern seem to be doing OK between London and Birmingham competing with diesels and heritage stock against a quicker route using modern electric units.

 

[jimm]

It will be massively popular as Water Eaton Parkway will make them mahooosive amounts of cash from people who don't want the hassle of getting into Oxford. The route won't be much slower even when Oxford gets wires.

Correct. Water Eaton is the key to the whole project for Chiltern, not Oxford station, which will always be a pain in the posterior to get to, due to the problems of the road system in the city.

Water Eaton is on the edge of town, near roads going in every direction, easier to get to for people living in the north and east of Oxford than trying to get across the city centre to use FGW, and also attractive to people who currently drive to the Thornhill park-and-ride next to the A40 at Headington to catch the coaches on the M40 into London. FGW adding 260-odd extra parking spaces at Charlbury and Hanborough (opening of the extension there is imminent) may have put a spanner in the works when it comes to abstracting Cotswold Line custom but we shall see.

Hard to know at this stage what the future time differential will be post GW electrification but I'd expect a future GW operator to be pressing for a 45 minutes from Paddington express timing, which would be a pretty clear time margin over Chiltern to use as a marketing tool for Oxford traffic - but if Chiltern can earn their corn at Water Eaton, plus take commuter cars off the A34 between Bicester and Oxford, and the M40 coaches take a hit generally, both rail operators will end up happy.

 

[anthony263]

FGW did state that electrification would London Paddington - Oxford could be done in 50 minutes which is good I suppose.

Chiltern could have some luck in that with a lot of GW bi-modes IEP's being 5 carriages expected to run in pairs between Oxford and Paddington whats to say there will not occasions where only a 5 car unit shows up during a busy rush hour, if it happens regulary there I would expect some commuters to look at Chiltern and decide to give it a go instead.

Of course they would have some issue's at Marylebone with the station being smaller and more congested than Paddington together with being served by just the Bakerloo line

 

[ModernRailways]

Of course they would have some issue's at Marylebone with the station being smaller and more congested than Paddington together with being served by just the Bakerloo line

Baker Street station is just down the road as in a short 2 minute walk, that gives you much better options than Paddington, especially since Baker Street gives you the Jubilee Line which would be good for workers in Canary Wharf/Westminster.

 

[edwin_m]

If Water Eaton is so important then might FGW or successor franchise be looking at extending some of their Oxford terminators there?

 

[swt_passenger]

If Water Eaton is so important then might FGW or successor franchise be looking at extending some of their Oxford terminators there?

There won't be as many Oxford terminators, because they already plan to link those paths onto EWR.

EWR's intended service patterns, now that DfT have confirmed electrification throughout, no longer assume an Oxford terminus for their services, but running through to at least Didcot or even Reading.

As I recall from a presentation I saw, of three current terminating trains per hour from the south now, there will only be one with EWR, and I expect it will be the remaining fast train?

 

[The Planner]

As I have mentioned in previous threads in the past, the bay at MK was always known as the Reading bay in plans so even back then the idea was there.

 

[SprinterMan]

Email from Graham Cross at Chiltern giving further info....

Now in the Oxford Mail....

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/10426905.New_Oxford_London_rail_link_given_go_ahead/

This is excellent news, so glad the actions of a single selfish attention-seeking individual have not affected the project.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Chiltern Railways press release states that the service from Water Eaton Parkway should start in Spring 2015 with the full service to Oxford in 2016.
Given this further delay (the original aim was for a service by 2013) I do wonder how viable this service will be. With electrification on the way to Oxford via GWR how many passengers will want to take a slower route to London in what will then be almost heritage diesel stock ?

Now that's a loaded question if I ever saw one!

The stock is very comfortable, I'm not sure when the last time you went on a 168 was but they are very decent trains with great facilities (the much advertised WiFi and power points) which seem popular with passengers who have the choice between travelling on an electrified railway between New Street and Euston or the slower route to London...

It's been stated many times in this thread and directly in response to you a couple of times already but Water Eton is the big bet for this link. If we are talking door to door times then the question is for how many people will Home > Water Eton > Marylebone > Work be a quicker and less stressful journey than Home > Oxford > Paddington > Work? The traffic in Oxford is famously horrific in the rush hours and maybe this link is exactly what the people need?

Another thought is will this lead to an increase in the number of people using the train out of Oxford? Is comparing Oxford to Cambridge a fair thing to do? They both have a similar population, they are both about the same distance from London and obviously they both have an absolutely world class and globally famous university. They both have a token long distance service (you might argue Oxford's is slightly better) yet Cambridge station has always had significantly more passengers. Why is this?
Is it that Cambridge has always had what Oxford is about to get, a second route into London? This increases frequency of service, it increases capacity meaning people are much more likely to get a seat and it increases passenger confidence because if one route is disrupted then they can just go the other way.

Obviously I am biased, you only need to read my post history to figure out why, but I think this link could be one of the best things to have happened to Oxford in years.

 

[transmanche]

yet Cambridge station has always had significantly more passengers. Why is this?

Oxford Tube and the X90? And the fact there are ten times more Oxford-London coaches compared to Cambridge-London?

 

[NickBucks]

Now that's a loaded question if I ever saw one!

The stock is very comfortable, I'm not sure when the last time you went on a 168 was but they are very decent trains with great facilities (the much advertised WiFi and power points) which seem popular with passengers who have the choice between travelling on an electrified railway between New Street and Euston or the slower route to London...

It's been stated many times in this thread and directly in response to you a couple of times already but Water Eton is the big bet for this link. If we are talking door to door times then the question is for how many people will Home > Water Eton > Marylebone > Work be a quicker and less stressful journey than Home > Oxford > Paddington > Work? The traffic in Oxford is famously horrific in the rush hours and maybe this link is exactly what the people need?

Another thought is will this lead to an increase in the number of people using the train out of Oxford? Is comparing Oxford to Cambridge a fair thing to do? They both have a similar population, they are both about the same distance from London and obviously they both have an absolutely world class and globally famous university. They both have a token long distance service (you might argue Oxford's is slightly better) yet Cambridge station has always had significantly more passengers. Why is this?
Is it that Cambridge has always had what Oxford is about to get, a second route into London? This increases frequency of service, it increases capacity meaning people are much more likely to get a seat and it increases passenger confidence because if one route is disrupted then they can just go the other way.

Obviously I am biased, you only need to read my post history to figure out why, but I think this link could be one of the best things to have happened to Oxford in years.

Thanks Cherry Picker.

I should have mentioned in my first post that I am a daily user of Chiltern Railways on the Aylesbury to Amersham line. I last used a Class 168 a couple of days ago. These are used on some services to enable them to get back to the depot in Aylesbury.Agreed much better than the 165 units I am used to but a tight squeeze on peak time services although the door lobbies allow for more standing passengers. I accept the Water Eaton arguement entirely but Chiltern continues to stress the role of Oxford in their press releases specially for travellers from South Bucks. High Wycombe> Oxford is widely mentioned for example as the M40 coaches tend to by pass Wycombe. Oxford with its University is also a major centre but I guess off peak travellers will be content with the slightly slower service on Chiltern.