Chiltern Oxford Link completed

[The Planner]

Twin track chord, 40mph IIRC.

 

[RobLawrence]

Twin track chord, 40mph IIRC.

Thank you.

 

[swt_passenger]

@RL
2. The angle of E/W to Chiltern is very obtuse on Google Earth so I would not think the curve would be a problem, but it's a fair old height isn't it?

Once the curve takes the two tracks round alongside the existing lines there is a relatively straight section parallel to the main lines before the junction, this deals with the gradient.

There are very detailed engineering drawings of the whole thing in a massive file Warning - 99Mb file size on the TWA Order documentation website:

http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/uploads/04Oct2010/CRCL-P-6-B2 - Appendix 2 - Stephen Barker.pdf

Once downloaded, the chord area being discussed in recent posts is shown around page 58 of the pdf onwards.

Hope this is of interest...

 

[ironstone11]

Once the curve takes the two tracks round alongside the existing lines there is a relatively straight section parallel to the main lines before the junction, this deals with the gradient.

From the drawings, I would estimate that the gradient is no more than 1:139 and the radius approximately 300m (15ch). The Railway Group Standard for passenger lines is 140m minimum. So should be no problem.

 

[js47604]

Just to clarify the position on DOO working on trains of more than 7 coaches,all services formed of 8 cars and above will be operated with a guard.This is extremely unlikely to change in the future.

 

[cjp]

Just to clarify the position on DOO working on trains of more than 7 coaches,all services formed of 8 cars and above will be operated with a guard.This is extremely unlikely to change in the future.

Just curious - why is this?

And for that matter why do Chiltern trains north of Banbury not run DOO?

 

[HowardGWR]

Once the curve takes the two tracks round alongside the existing lines there is a relatively straight section parallel to the main lines before the junction, this deals with the gradient.

There are very detailed engineering drawings of the whole thing in a massive file Warning - 99Mb file size on the TWA Order documentation website:

http://www.chiltern-evergreen3.co.uk/uploads/04Oct2010/CRCL-P-6-B2 - Appendix 2 - Stephen Barker.pdf

Once downloaded, the chord area being discussed in recent posts is shown around page 58 of the pdf onwards.

Hope this is of interest...

Looks like there will be a great new footbridge location along the footpath diversion for rail photographers, reached from Gavray Drive / Whimbrel Close, from where all lines in the future will be conveniently adjacent.

Thanks very much. It took me several tries to download that one!

 

[67018]

Just to clarify the position on DOO working on trains of more than 7 coaches,all services formed of 8 cars and above will be operated with a guard.This is extremely unlikely to change in the future.

As a matter of interest, is this the case now with the 8 car service introduced in December? Can't say I've ever seen a guard on it, although of course being formed of 3 units with no corridor connections it would be very easy not to notice if the guard is elsewhere.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

It's the 06:28 ex Birmingham. There is a guard on it all the way. A Birmingham guard works it as far as Banbury where they are relieved by an Aylesbury guard.

As for the above questions (why is 7 car the limit for DOO, why no DOO north of Banbury) both of them are infrastructure related.
Not all Chiltern DOO platforms are fitted with CCTV monitors, they are ether look back or mirror operated and the safety case states that 7 cars is the maximum length of train which can be dispatched by this method of working. If some money is spent on upgrading the DOO equipment then DOO train lengths could increase to match DOO trains on other lines.
North of Banbury was historically a radio issue. You need Cab Secure Radio (CSR) or better to work DOO, and the CSR zone ended in the platforms at Banbury station. As a result no DOO equipment (CCTV, Mirrors, CD/RA etc) was installed at stations to the north of Banbury. Now GSM-R is in place throughout the route and there is a very intensively worked stretch of line between Leamington Spa, Birmingham, Stourbridge and Worcester there may be an economic argument for pushing DOO further north but I think agreements with the unions state things will remain as they are for the foreseeable.

 

[RPM]

Now GSM-R is in place throughout the route and there is a very intensively worked stretch of line between Leamington Spa, Birmingham, Stourbridge and Worcester there may be an economic argument for pushing DOO further north but I think agreements with the unions state things will remain as they are for the foreseeable.

Yes, I believe there is an agreement in place with RMT to guarantee no DOO north of Banbury for the remainder of the Chiltern franchise.

 

[js47604]

There is indeed an agreement between ASLE&F and RMT not to facilitate DOO working north of Banbury.

Also there are categorically no plans by ASLE&F to water down the DOO/train length agreements,they'll just have to provide more guards.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Are there not 8-10-12 car DOO workings on other lines? Genuinely curious.

 

[davetheguard]

I've managed to get myself confused as to just what will be delivered during the closure of the line from Oxford to Bicester later this month.

I know that because of delays due to an objector in Oxford, and because of the East West Rail project, there have been changes to the scope and timescales of what Chiltern are doing.

Will the section from Oxford Parkway (Water Eaton) through Islip to approaching Bicester remain single for now, and only be redoubled later as part of EWR; or will all the work be done now with the line re-opening as double track with two platforms at Islip?

 

[swt_passenger]

I've managed to get myself confused as to just what will be delivered during the closure of the line from Oxford to Bicester later this month.

I know that because of delays due to an objector in Oxford, and because of the East West Rail project, there have been changes to the scope and timescales of what Chiltern are doing.

Will the section from Oxford Parkway (Water Eaton) through Islip to approaching Bicester remain single for now, and only be redoubled later as part of EWR; or will all the work be done now with the line re-opening as double track with two platforms at Islip?

EWR did announce last September that their necessary work between Oxford and Bicester will now be done at the same time as Chilterns's. I interpreted that as it now being dual tracked throughout, and Islip station being fully rebuilt in one go.

Then interestingly, this short but very relevant paragraph has now appeared in the NR CP5 draft delivery plan:

Project Evergreen 3 Phase 2 (Bicester – Oxford): originally promoted and developed by Chiltern Railways to allow the introduction of a new London (Marylebone) to Oxford via High Wycombe service. The outputs to achieve this objective will now be delivered by Network Rail as an integral part of East West Rail Phase 1.

I hadn't spotted that so far, it seems quite a fundamental change to what we all thought was happening...

 

[davetheguard]

EWR did announce last September that their necessary work between Oxford and Bicester will now be done at the same time as Chilterns's. I interpreted that as it now being dual tracked throughout, and Islip station being fully rebuilt in one go.

Then interestingly, this short but very relevant paragraph has now appeared in the NR CP5 draft delivery plan:



I hadn't spotted that so far, it seems quite a fundamental change to what we all thought was happening...

Mmmm, interesting, thanks swt_passenger.

Perhaps I've got myself confused with good reason, then?

 

[The Planner]

It will go in as double track from Woodstock Road Junction all the way to Bicester including the chord along with alterations to Banbury Road stone terminal and the MoD access at Bicester. The bit south of there is still uncertain as they are still undecided as to what is going to happen at Oxford.

 

[swt_passenger]

What I'm thinking is that maybe what we've had is just a few months extra delay on the open section (i.e. Oxford to Bicester Town) recently, while they discuss the exact details of how to combine the two projects.

Meanwhile on the brand new bit of embankment between the new Bicester South Jn and Gavray Jn, they've been cracking on with the earthworks, because that bit is the same as they'd always planned anyway?

 

[cjp]

I

As for the above questions (why is 7 car the limit for DOO, why no DOO north of Banbury) both of them are infrastructure related....

Thank you for your full answer which I found both interesting and informative.

 

[js47604]

Are there not 8-10-12 car DOO workings on other lines? Genuinely curious.

I think there are, but as I previously said there are no plans whatsoever to change any of these agreements.

 

[67018]

Are there not 8-10-12 car DOO workings on other lines? Genuinely curious.

Yes there are - Southeastern certainly run up to 10 car DOO. It seems to vary a lot though from line to line; I guess it's down to local conditions, history, facilities and agreements with the unions.

 

[L&Y Robert]

It will go in as double track from Woodstock Road Junction all the way to Bicester including the chord together with alterations to Banbury Road stone terminal and the MoD access at Bicester.

So the chord is double track then, is it? Double junction (with crossing?) at both ends? - or maybe both up and down chord roads into the down main and then a trailing crossover on the Chiltern line, but is there room for all this on the Bletchley line?

 

[The Planner]

Double junction both ends, unless some last minute de-scoping which I doubt.

 

[swt_passenger]

So the chord is double track then, is it? Double junction (with crossing?) at both ends? - or maybe both up and down chord roads into the down main and then a trailing crossover on the Chiltern line, but is there room for all this on the Bletchley line?

The drawings that I linked to earlier (post #573 - big file size) show the latter at both ends on the Phase 2B layout (the full monty including EWR) i.e. both are simplified double junctions, with a trailing crossover on the main lines (Bicester South) and a facing crossover at the other end (Gavray Jn).

I think it has been posted here before that traditional double junctions are no longer the preferred solution as long as there is enough length and width available for the extra S&C units required.

 

[RobLawrence]

My first daylight commute to work coincided with new developments on the chord at Bicester. So for those interested here are a few quick shots from 21 Feb.

The first two show how the single track has been lifted either side of the pedestrian level crossing at Tubbs Lane (SP591224). The first shot, with the 4wd buggy in the foreground is the East-West route looking towards the chord itself. The second photo is looking in the opposite direction, down the line towards Bicester Town. As recently as January, this entire area was thick with hedgerow and small trees which virtually enveloped the single tracks. A footbridge is due to be constructed in place of the existing crossing.

The 3 other photos were taken as we accelerated away from Bicester North on the the 0738 service to London. The second is taken just as we cross the East West line (so looking towards Bicester Town - and eventually Oxford Parkway). The shots show the scale of the developments now taking place at the site.

Hope they are of interest to those following this work.

 

[MK Tom]

Thanks for that, hope to see more updates like that as it progresses.

My understanding is that in May, the MOD freights will switch from coming from Oxford to coming via Aylesbury and Claydon.

 

[oversteer]

Certainly not hanging about, line closure between Bicester North and Princes Risborough 8/9 March to put in the points!

 

[midlandred]

Hi guys
Think I may have posted this earlier in the wrong thread!
Just moved to the Bicester area, and was sad to find that the Bicester Town-Oxford line was closing for the upgrade
However, it makes for a photo project for me in my retirement in a new environment
Here are my photos so far - http://cliffjones.zenfolio.com/bicesterlink

 

[RPM]

Prefabricated pointwork is being assembled at Bicester North at the moment, ready to be transported to the site of the new junction next month.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi guys
Think I may have posted this earlier in the wrong thread!
Just moved to the Bicester area, and was sad to find that the Bicester Town-Oxford line was closing for the upgrade
However, it makes for a photo project for me in my retirement in a new environment
Here are my photos so far - http://cliffjones.zenfolio.com/bicesterlink

Great quality photos Cliff. Glad somebody is documenting the project like this. I'd have liked to have done this myself but alas I don't really have the time.

 

[twoag]

Hi guys
Think I may have posted this earlier in the wrong thread!
Just moved to the Bicester area, and was sad to find that the Bicester Town-Oxford line was closing for the upgrade
However, it makes for a photo project for me in my retirement in a new environment
Here are my photos so far - http://cliffjones.zenfolio.com/bicesterlink

Things are gathering a pace. I haven't been down there in since it closed. Its also worth going east because I believe they have cleared the vegetation off the route to bletchley as well.

 

[twoag]

Took a video passing this week..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaUO2XhhAHo