Christmas works 2014

[cavie78]

Sorry if this has been talked about elsewhere but does anyone know exactly what the "significant improvements to the rail network" actually are for the work on the ECML at Peterborough, Holloway, Harringay and Canal Tunnels? I'm assuming it won't mean reduced journey times?

https://www.networkrailmediacentre....tmas-investment-programme-to-delive-21ed.aspx

 

[swt_passenger]

On a different page on the Network Rail website there's a slightly different version:

Kings Cross - New overhead power equipment will be installed to link the new Canal Tunnels, which join the lines linking King’s Cross to the North, with the Thameslink route through St Pancras. This will enable trains from Peterborough and Cambridge to eventually run through London to the South Coast, starting in 2018. In addition renewals at Harringay and Holloway will help improve the performance and reliability of services.

Wiring up the junction with the Canal Tunnels seems the only significant 'new work' - the rest seems no more than normal renewals.

 

[Geezertronic]

Looking on the BBC HYS page on the news article re Christmas Closures - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30398791 there appear to be the usual idiots on there...

 

[3141]

Looking on the BBC HYS page on the news article re Christmas Closures - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30398791 there appear to be the usual idiots on there...

If you're referring to some of the comments, I absolutely agree. One fool declared that there'd been no investment in the railways since privatisation. Another one, commenting on why closed lines weren't being reopened, suggested it was because reopenings didn't offer "fat" contracts. Some are posting false statements followed by the word FACT.

Some are totally ignorant of the facts, and others must be deliberate liars.

 

[Bald Rick]

Peterborough is also Thameslink related, as is some of the work at Hornsey.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

If you're referring to some of the comments, I absolutely agree. One fool said----

Some are totally ignorant of the facts, and others must be deliberate liars.

My one moment of shear disbelief came in the 1980s. I was travelling and a load of stockbrokers or similar were in the same carriage as me. There had been weather disruptions which badly affected the roads and so many had decided to go for their 1 or 2 days a year by train. -As expected it was standing room only. One total Richard Cranium who should have known all about return on capital employed etc said "Well you would think they could stick a couple of extra carriages on"

Yes mate - the railways can keep around assets on the off chance for 2 days a year there will be disruption so you can have a seat when you decide to get out of your car - . A similar time when snow hit London and the South East and they were howling because the snow remover was in Scotland - well fancy that - being where it was likely needed.

Some journalist/stockbroker types just make me mad - sorry mods if I am way off topic.

 

[Antman]

My one moment of shear disbelief came in the 1980s. I was travelling and a load of stockbrokers or similar were in the same carriage as me. There had been weather disruptions which badly affected the roads and so many had decided to go for their 1 or 2 days a year by train. -As expected it was standing room only. One total Richard Cranium who should have known all about return on capital employed etc said "Well you would think they could stick a couple of extra carriages on"

Yes mate - the railways can keep around assets on the off chance for 2 days a year there will be disruption so you can have a seat when you decide to get out of your car - . A similar time when snow hit London and the South East and they were howling because the snow remover was in Scotland - well fancy that - being where it was likely needed.

Some journalist/stockbroker types just make me mad - sorry mods if I am way off topic.

Playing devils advocate here, suggesting a couple of extra coaches would be helpful isn't the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Do you just have an issue with "journalist/stockbroker types"?

 

[bramling]

Playing devils advocate here, suggesting a couple of extra coaches would be helpful isn't the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Do you just have an issue with "journalist/stockbroker types"?

But it's a bit like the Christmas shopping crowds last weekend. I turned up at the station to find I had to struggle to get in because the queue for the ticket office was out the door. Then, what is normally a reasonably loaded train turned up packed. Meanwhile, the culprits are moaning 'you'd think they would have extra windows open' and 'you'd think they could make the train longer'. Just for the few hours of the year when loads of infrequent users all decide to go to shopping in London together?

 

[Antman]

But it's a bit like the Christmas shopping crowds last weekend. I turned up at the station to find I had to struggle to get in because the queue for the ticket office was out the door. Then, what is normally a reasonably loaded train turned up packed. Meanwhile, the culprits are moaning 'you'd think they would have extra windows open' and 'you'd think they could make the train longer'. Just for the few hours of the year when loads of infrequent users all decide to go to shopping in London together?

Well my point is that it's not an unreasonable suggestion. Whether it is actually practical to do that is another matter, I appreciate that extra rolling stock cannot be plucked out of thin air although shops usually manage to recruit extra staff for busy periods so would expecting a few more staff in ticket offices really be so outragous? Obviously many train users will have little or no knowledge about railway operations but it doesn't make them idiots for suggesting ways of improving things.

 

[455driver]

Well my point is that it's not an unreasonable suggestion. Whether it is actually practical to do that is another matter, I appreciate that extra rolling stock cannot be plucked out of thin air although shops usually manage to recruit extra staff for busy periods so would expecting a few more staff in ticket offices really be so outragous? Obviously many train users will have little or no knowledge about railway operations but it doesn't make them idiots for suggesting ways of improving things.

How long does it take the stores to train those staff up to a reasonable standard?
How long would it take the railways to train those ticket office staff up to a reasonable standard?

 

[bramling]

How long does it take the stores to train those staff up to a reasonable standard?
How long would it take the railways to train those ticket office staff up to a reasonable standard?

Also, would they cover the additional cost? Would season ticket holders be happy if they found out they were subsidising the cost of having additional staff just so a few Christmas shoppers don't have to queue?

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Playing devils advocate here, suggesting a couple of extra coaches would be helpful isn't the most ridiculous comment I've ever heard. Do you just have an issue with "journalist/stockbroker types"?

Hyperbole on my part to be truthful. However, if you are a journalist -I expect fact checking - hey here is a novel thought - juornalist ask a rail enthusiast for comment - that way he gets fact checked too.

As for stockbroker/financial types, they would be the first to whine "Return on capital employed" or similar if you suggested building a chemical plant or whatever "just in case"

But it's a bit like the Christmas shopping crowds last weekend. I turned up at the station to find I had to struggle to get in because the queue for the ticket office was out the door. Then, what is normally a reasonably loaded train turned up packed. Meanwhile, the culprits are moaning 'you'd think they would have extra windows open' and 'you'd think they could make the train longer'. Just for the few hours of the year when loads of infrequent users all decide to go to shopping in London together?

A great illustration - thanks.

 

[3141]

Also, would they cover the additional cost? Would season ticket holders be happy if they found out they were subsidising the cost of having additional staff just so a few Christmas shoppers don't have to queue?

Sounds as if it was more than "just a few". But what the season ticket-holders would be "subsidising", if that's an accurate term in this situation, is the provision of a service sufficient to meet a high seasonal demand, which is reasonably foreseeable at Christmas.

I agree that some actions, such as adding extra coaches - which probably means an extra unit - may not be practicable at certain times, such as peak hours, but they may be entirely practicable off-peak. Passengers have at least as much right to suggest that as railway staff do to grumble "How ridiculous, who's going to pay for that, are we really expected to have resources ready to meet contingencies, don't anyone tell us that we might do things differently" etc.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

------- is the provision of a service sufficient to meet a high seasonal demand, which is reasonably foreseeable at Christmas.

I agree that some actions, such as adding extra coaches - which probably means an extra unit - may not be practicable at certain times, such as peak hours, but they may be entirely practicable off-peak.

That is reasonable. So it maybe possible in future to have almost a peak hour service at off-peak times during the xmas rush. Is that a fair way of stating it?

 

[bramling]

Sounds as if it was more than "just a few". But what the season ticket-holders would be "subsidising", if that's an accurate term in this situation, is the provision of a service sufficient to meet a high seasonal demand, which is reasonably foreseeable at Christmas.

I agree that some actions, such as adding extra coaches - which probably means an extra unit - may not be practicable at certain times, such as peak hours, but they may be entirely practicable off-peak. Passengers have at least as much right to suggest that as railway staff do to grumble "How ridiculous, who's going to pay for that, are we really expected to have resources ready to meet contingencies, don't anyone tell us that we might do things differently" etc.

In this case, the train was already at the maximum length that certain platforms on the route would have been able to accommodate, and all available ticket windows were open. (There were, of course, three self-service machines which could have been used, had people actually been able to get to them through the crowd).

Actually (rant approaching!), let's just get rid of Christmas altogether. Nowadays it seems to be just a retail profit date, the behaviour of some people on "Black Friday" and Boxing Day is deplorable, and sets a shameful example to any children present or who happen to watch the news on those days; my dogs have more civility at feeding time than these low-life.

From the point of view of someone who works shifts, all Christmas does is make some places crowded at times they wouldn't normally be so. The final straw is seeing the state some of our trains and platforms end up in at the end of New Year's Night, and the way many people conduct themselves that night.

 

[3141]

That is reasonable. So it maybe possible in future to have almost a peak hour service at off-peak times during the xmas rush. Is that a fair way of stating it?

Yes, more or less - probably not in terms of frequency, but certainly in terms of train length.

A few weeks ago there was a thread about extra passengers during the October half term holiday. SWT (and probably some other TOCs) did lengthen several trains to accommodate the extra demand.

On the London Underground there are several sections of line where some of the off-peak service is almost as intensive as the peak, especially at weekends.

I believe that a lot of the increase in passenger numbers over the last fifteen years or more has been the result of increased leisure travel. TOCs have encouraged this to push up revenue and get more effective use of their rolling stock.

Maybe we've reached a stage where all TOCs should expect a high passenger demand at times when, in the past, a more moderate increase was normal and the existing provision was sufficient to meet it, perhaps being busier but not crowded; and therefore they should now be planning to run longer off-peak trains at all such times, and even adjusting maintenance schedules to help make that possible.

 

[Bald Rick]

That is reasonable. So it maybe possible in future to have almost a peak hour service at off-peak times during the xmas rush. Is that a fair way of stating it?

Except that in most places, there isn't the stock to do it in the week. Because the stock is all used in the peak direction, it is in the wrong place for the off peak, at least the first hour or two.

As an example, when the planners were developing example timetables for Southern and southeastern routes in connection with Thameslink, it was found that simply extending the peak by an hour required well over 100 extra units.