Cityfox Bus

[LukeCymru]

It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the two Enviro 400 MMC's that were supposedly ordered (for a contract if I remember rightly).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It must’ve cost a small fortune running the Newport operation over the past five months; I’m all for innovation and ideas but Rhys needs better business advice before embarking upon expensive ventures. The ‘tease’ concerning starting routes in Cardiff also indicates that Rhys fails to learn by experience.

There’s still the two bus Susscom/Babcock contract and that’ll need two of the three licence discs, handy that!

Hence my reference to the TC and to Babcock.

 

[richw]

Of course Mr Siddaway has history for sudden withdrawal of service without notice.

https://cbwmagazine.com/cornwall-busways-loses-appeal/

The TC won’t look favourably on this!

 

[THarris123]

RIP Foxstar Newport then

 

[THarris123]

It must’ve cost a small fortune running the Newport operation over the past five months; I’m all for innovation and ideas but Rhys needs better business advice before embarking upon expensive ventures. The ‘tease’ concerning starting routes in Cardiff also indicates that Rhys fails to learn by experience.

There’s still the two bus Susscom/Babcock contract and that’ll need two of the three licence discs, handy that!

I expect the money from rail replacement and uni work helped a bit mind in the running of the One

 

[Jordan Adam]

I expect the money from rail replacement and uni work helped a bit mind in the running of the One

In hindsight if they wanted to have a proper go at service work they should have built up a coach hire firm, then went in to service work from that, using the coach hire as their backup. I think it's well known that service work is high cost and low profit, where as coach hire is far more sustainable.

 

[nesw]

It must’ve been obvious some months ago to Nick Siddaway, Cityfox Accountant and TM that the Newport operation wasn’t generating sufficient revenue to pay the bills; they could’ve deregistered the route in the usual timescale and retained a professional reputation. Also knowing that they had been refused a new Operators Licence and had a confirmed contract in Bristol, common sense surely?

It’s interesting to note that Rhys had an operators licence Bristol Greyhound Limited , surrendered sometime back .

It’s sad that passengers and employees are losing out by Rhys pulling out of Newport without statutory notice; also a negative for passenger transport as a whole and the Young Bus Managers Network.

 

[Jordan Adam]

It must’ve been obvious some months ago to Nick Siddaway, Cityfox Accountant and TM that the Newport operation wasn’t generating sufficient revenue to pay the bills; they could’ve deregistered the route in the usual timescale and retained a professional reputation. Also knowing that they had been refused a new Operators Licence and had a confirmed contract in Bristol, common sense surely?

It’s interesting to note that Rhys had an operators licence Bristol Greyhound Limited , surrendered sometime back .

It’s sad that passengers and employees are losing out by Rhys pulling out of Newport without statutory notice; also a negative for passenger transport as a whole and the Young Bus Managers Network.

Sadly Rhy's is some what stubborn (and a compulsive liar), as shown by his actions lately. I doubt he'll learn from this and will no doubt pop up under a different name in 6 months time. As sad as it sounds i saw this all coming. I wonder what will happen with the rest of the business...

 

[Galaxy]

He is something of a character, that's for sure! It's weird because on the one hand, his branding, thoughts for customers are really on point but the execution of it is somewhat lacklustre.

Hopefully a bit of life experience behind him and things might change, but there's something very niggling about the whole process.

I just feel for the poor buggers who will be out of work now.

 

[Observer]

They'd probably have lasted longer if they didn't lease heavy duty buses and just bought something smaller, older, but still painted and liveried. Just see the prices of second hand Darts and Solos nowadays...

 

[richw]

They'd probably have lasted longer if they didn't lease heavy duty buses and just bought something smaller, older, but still painted and liveried. Just see the prices of second hand Darts and Solos nowadays...

2003 darts on eBay 3-4000! I bet those new buses cost more in leasing costs a month!

 

[Galaxy]

And even just a couple of thousand more to moquette it and give it a fine fettle and you've got a more than adequate fleet. Yes, great to have new buses or nearly new in their case, but don't paralise yourself with leasing costs like Dawson charge.

Running before you can walk has happened by many new operators and this was no different. 10/10 for effort, but a 'see me after class' for execution.

 

[nesw]

If this was the first occasion, ‘running before you can walk’ might be an excuse however, Rhys has been ‘running’ with various real and imagined ventures since at least 2015. It’s probably more ‘see me’ and special measures.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Running before you can walk has happened by many new operators and this was no different. 10/10 for effort, but a 'see me after class' for execution.

If this was the first occasion, ‘running before you can walk’ might be an excuse however, Rhys has been ‘running’ with various real and imagined ventures since at least 2015. It’s probably more ‘see me’ and special measures.

I would suggest that most people would be supportive of any entrepreneur making his or her way, despite the odd pitfall etc. In that respect, I would certainly applaud an individual. However, that must be tempered and I would suggest that sympathy with Mr Hand should be taken "in the round".

For a start, the controversies involving Mr Hand have been ongoing since 2013. That was when he first came to the attention of people when he appeared to be responsible for websites/FB pages purporting to be Claribels. Impersonating a real business is serious and there have been some other "relationships" with other businesses that have been queried in the past. There have also been instances of outright plagiarism from other businesses. Then you have the teasing and announcement of various ventures that have then been rowed back from - again generating scepticism from people.

Despite that, it has been apparent that most people have been giving Mr Hand the benefit of the doubt, especially given how there was some tangible results in terms of MyFirstMile, the Keynsham 39 bus/taxi link, the Bristol taxi business, and then the visible working of Rail Replacement, supporting the First Bath Uni relief operations, and latterly the Newport venture (though the latter strategy seemed perverse - leased vehicles, expensive to run, on a relatively marginal route).

Also, might be worth considering the impact not only on the drivers but also any debtors that might be out of pocket.

 

[Robertj21a]

I would suggest that most people would be supportive of any entrepreneur making his or her way, despite the odd pitfall etc. In that respect, I would certainly applaud an individual. However, that must be tempered and I would suggest that sympathy with Mr Hand should be taken "in the round".

For a start, the controversies involving Mr Hand have been ongoing since 2013. That was when he first came to the attention of people when he appeared to be responsible for websites/FB pages purporting to be Claribels. Impersonating a real business is serious and there have been some other "relationships" with other businesses that have been queried in the past. There have also been instances of outright plagiarism from other businesses. Then you have the teasing and announcement of various ventures that have then been rowed back from - again generating scepticism from people.

Despite that, it has been apparent that most people have been giving Mr Hand the benefit of the doubt, especially given how there was some tangible results in terms of MyFirstMile, the Keynsham 39 bus/taxi link, the Bristol taxi business, and then the visible working of Rail Replacement, supporting the First Bath Uni relief operations, and latterly the Newport venture (though the latter strategy seemed perverse - leased vehicles, expensive to run, on a relatively marginal route).

Also, might be worth considering the impact not only on the drivers but also any debtors that might be out of pocket.

Some might suggest you are being exceptionally kind in your summing up, by omitting other issues in which he is alleged to have been involved.

 

[Jordan Adam]

Some might suggest you are being exceptionally kind in your summing up, by omitting other issues in which he is alleged to have been involved.

Including the criminal record...

 

[LukeCymru]

Where exactly has his various activities been since he first started in this field then? I'm aware of the Taxis in Bristol (there was talk in the last few weeks of buying a taxi firm in Cwmbran), his Rail Replacement with First and obviously the latest Newport venture.

 

[richw]

Any coincidence that Cityfox bus limited accounts were due on Monday according to companies house?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Some might suggest you are being exceptionally kind in your summing up, by omitting other issues in which he is alleged to have been involved.

Omitted only for reasons of brevity though there are some things that can't be shared, publicly or otherwise.

I could've mentioned KernowFox, the Bristol night bus, the Plymouth taxi "weakness" among others. Which ones were you thinking about?

 

[nesw]

For those who might want to know more about the various ventures through the years Fat Bus Bloke’s blog had a nice summary a few years back; it caused quite an outcry at the time and FBB hasn’t mentioned anything foxy since then.

https://publictransportexperience.blogspot.com/search?q=Cityfox

 

[RustySpoons]

I've been following the Cityfox/Foxstar journey for a while now. Must admit, Foxstar Newport did appear, from a distance (I'm from up north!) to be quite successful.

Good social media presence as well as what seemed to be a lot of loyal customers, with modern clean buses, it seemed to have everything going for it. And with the weekly £100+ giveaways it did seem like it was doing quite well. Obviously, with current events, it seems it wasn't.

Using relatively conservative figures from what have been posted on here, to cover the lease costs for just one of the Volvos it'd need to be taking at least £40 every hour. And thats just for one bus, and I believe they had 4 Volvos in Newport? And thats just to cover the cost of the one bus, not taking into account fuel, insurance, tax, maintenance, bus station fees, depot, back office staff, drivers wages, etc. let alone the other 3 buses.

Obviously the Rail Replacement work will have provided some extra income, but surely not enough to help cover the rest of the costs.

I do think it's sad that another small independent has seemingly vanished from the road, but it did seem to be a bit ambitious for a new operator.

If four used Solo's were purchased/rented, rather than heavy duty Volvo's (as mentioned previously) I wonder if it'd still be operating now? Or would Solo's scupper the Rail Replacement services?

Are the Foxstar Solos and Versa still operating in Bristol? And the taxi-bus services running in conjunction with First too? All seems to have gone quiet on the CityFox Taxis front...

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I've been following the Cityfox/Foxstar journey for a while now. Must admit, Foxstar Newport did appear, from a distance (I'm from up north!) to be quite successful.

Quite a interesting use of the word "successful". To operate for four months before collapsing overnight.

Just thinking that the disappearance on Thursday night really does nail the lie about Newport Bus and Dawsons collusion. Were that to be true, then continued operation would have been possible as Foxstar were able to get replacement vehicles from another source. That they then go pop the following day.....

ps £40 an hour is not too far out - you're looking at £400 a day as a rough guide. Was at TM last night and did see some vehicles still with Cityfox logos but also at least one with the logos partially removed - the fox and part of the phone number removed on both doors of one taxi.

 

[Robertj21a]

Omitted only for reasons of brevity though there are some things that can't be shared, publicly or otherwise.

I could've mentioned KernowFox, the Bristol night bus, the Plymouth taxi "weakness" among others. Which ones were you thinking about?

I was thinking of yet another matter but, as you say, there are some things that can't really be put on a public forum.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I was thinking of yet another matter but, as you say, there are some things that can't really be put on a public forum.

You can always PM me

 

[-Colly405-]

Thinking of the Babcock contract, does anyone know whihc Babcock offices in Bristol it covers - Babcock's website says they are in Stoke Gifford, Keynsham, Ashton, Aztec West, Avonmouth & Abbey Wood...

 

[RustySpoons]

Quite a interesting use of the word "successful". To operate for four months before collapsing overnight.

I was meaning more to do with how it looked to be running from an 'outsider' point of view. Plus all the positive talk about expanding 'very soon' around Newport. £100 weekly giveaways, as well as the dirt cheap £5 weekly ticket offer throughout January, the two new deckers that are apparently on order... It seems they were chucking money at it but not taking all that much in.

Interesting that some of the taxis are losing/have lost their CityFox branding too. Always got the impression they were quite successful, so hopefully the Foxstar debacle hasn't taken down the taxi side of the business too.

Again, I'm not from the area so I can only comment on what I've seen and read online from various sources!

 

[Robertj21a]

You can always PM me

I'd probably better not.......

 

[richard13]

Having visited Newport in January, it was obvious that The One would not survive. I did write to them with a list of reasons why it was not economic, but they kept going. The history of Rhys and co did suggest it was not a business and the visit proved it. Slogans like "the one for school" suggested he hadn't researched the area or understood Newport Bus's Network smartcards, which for under 18s were around half the cost if topped up monthly and valid through to Cardiff. His experiment has robbed Newport Bus of much needed income and probably others unknown.

Now Rhys or perhaps Mr Hand will have to face the consequences from probably both the Traffic Commissioner and the Insolvency practitioner / Companies House. Rhys is listed as a director of 8 companies including Cityfox Cardiff Ltd. As the sole director of Snowdonia Travel, if it was trading whilst insolvent, he will be personally liable for its debts - could be ouch.

 

[nesw]

Having visited Newport in January, it was obvious that The One would not survive. I did write to them with a list of reasons why it was not economic.

Rhys wasn’t too happy when he read your critique #329 of this thread , so goodness knows what his reaction was when he received an email or letter with your list of sensible suggestions!

The news is full of people who have managed to deceive others, not just in the business world. ‘Sociopath’ , ‘Serial fantasist’ ; two descriptions that are worth reading up and there’s plenty of material!

 

[Galaxy]

Just want to say thanks to everyone for highlighting the background to all this, which I wasn't aware of. Certainly some interesting times to come this week for CityFox Group.