Clapping for the NHS

[Bantamzen]

Moderator note: Split from https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...iduals-ar-shaming-law-abiding-citizens.203469

A friend of mine was given the shaming treatment over the Easter weekend for not turning out on her building's communal hallway to clap last week. In response she pointed out to her somewhat judgmental neighbor that for that entire Thursday evening she'd be working hard to help orchestrate NHS responses for certain parts of the country. Not a peep more was heard..

I haven't done that since the first time. Whilst I admire the healthcare staff, I would rather people dedicate their time to sending a message to the government to get their fingers out & get those staff the equipment they need. Its a sorry situation when a 99 year old gentleman has to walk around his garden, and crowdfunding & other charity efforts be made to raise funds for what should be happening via No 11 Downing Street.

 

[westv]

I wonder if the weekly "clap" will stop abruptly one week or just fade out over time.

 

[Ianno87]

I haven't done that since the first time. Whilst I admire the healthcare staff, I would rather people dedicate their time to sending a message to the government to get their fingers out & get those staff the equipment they need. Its a sorry situation when a 99 year old gentleman has to walk around his garden, and crowdfunding & other charity efforts be made to raise funds for what should be happening via No 11 Downing Street.

And I'd rather the people clapping all made sure they don't vote Tory at the next election, but you know some of them will...

 

[DarloRich]

And I'd rather the people clapping all made sure they don't vote Tory at the next election, but you know some of them will...

Agreed - instead of clapping we could make sure we appoint a government that adequately funds and resources the NHS and other carers. They could also sort out the PPE situation. You know stuff that keeps the carers alive and caring.

Oh and as for their silly badge........

 

[DarloRich]

I haven't done that since the first time. Whilst I admire the healthcare staff, I would rather people dedicate their time to sending a message to the government to get their fingers out & get those staff the equipment they need. Its a sorry situation when a 99 year old gentleman has to walk around his garden, and crowdfunding & other charity efforts be made to raise funds for what should be happening via No 11 Downing Street.

Absolutely spot on. While the story of Captain Tom is very uplifting it is shameful that an old bloke is having to raise money to pay for things the government should be providing. No one seems to care about that and pointing out hypocrisy and failings by the government seems to be a criminal offence these days.

 

[Bantamzen]

And I'd rather the people clapping all made sure they don't vote Tory at the next election, but you know some of them will...

I know some of them did last year too....

Just for context for everyone, I'm not berating the initial event, it seemed like a nice thing to do. But doing it every week when rumours after rumours circulate about the series of errors and poor decision from the government emerge, I can't help but think that Thursday evenings are a bit hollow now.

 

[DarloRich]

I know some of them did last year too....

Just for context for everyone, I'm not berating the initial event, it seemed like a nice thing to do. But doing it every week when rumours after rumours circulate about the series of errors and poor decision from the government emerge, I can't help but think that Thursday evenings are a bit hollow now.

Agreed - the hypocrisy of Tories pretending to care about and suddenly value NHS ( and other low paid) workers is sickening.

 

[Bantamzen]

Agreed - the hypocrisy of Tories pretending to care about and suddenly value NHS ( and other low paid) workers is sickening.

I regularly make a point of this on social media when people gush about themselves clapping.

 

[DarloRich]

I have absolutely no problem with normal people clapping. It is a great boost for people in the NHS. I do wish the same people would stop voting for a party who has tried to gut the NHS and ask themselves why we are in such a mess

 

[alxndr]

I've been glared at from across the street for not clapping¹. All I wanted to do was have dinner and go to bed having worked copious amounts of overtime.

I have no problem doing it, I can see how it might bring people together and break the monotony of lockdown for some, just don't pressure others, don't make it into a competition and forget why you're doing it, and don't forget it next time you go to the polling station or get tempted to flout the lockdown.

¹I use that term loosely as it now seems to have descended into anything that makes noise, e.g. kicking a wheely bin, bashing pots and pans, a vuveleza, and fireworks.

 

[Bantamzen]

I've been glared at from across the street for not clapping¹. All I wanted to do was have dinner and go to bed having worked copious amounts of overtime.

I have no problem doing it, I can see how it might bring people together and break the monotony of lockdown for some, just don't pressure others, don't make it into a competition and forget why you're doing it, and don't forget it next time you go to the polling station or get tempted to flout the lockdown.

¹I use that term loosely as it now seems to have descended into anything that makes noise, e.g. kicking a wheely bin, bashing pots and pans, a vuveleza, and fireworks.

We've had fireworks going off ever since the first event, and a friend of mine posted last night that they had bashed a pot. So yeah, people are starting to turn it into a competition.

 

[Andrew S]

I hope the clapping stops soon, but doubt it will. People seem hooked on it. It achieves nothing as far as I can see.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I hope the clapping stops soon, but doubt it will. People seem hooked on it. It achieves nothing as far as I can see.

What's the harm, though?

 

[Domh245]

What's the harm, though?

There's a video doing the rounds showing a large gathering on Westminster Bridge (including some police) with scant regard for 2m separation. Also the risk of people trying to one-up each other in terms of 'appreciating the NHS' to the point of injuries (there's talk of people letting off fireworks - very possible for those to go nastily wrong)

Nothing wrong with people clapping, but it's this virtue signalling that it's developed into that's worrying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's a video doing the rounds showing a large gathering on Westminster Bridge (including some police) with scant regard for 2m separation. Also the risk of people trying to one-up each other in terms of 'appreciating the NHS' to the point of injuries (there's talk of people letting off fireworks - very possible for those to go nastily wrong)

Well, that's silly, but most people are just standing at the front of their house clapping.

My front door is less than 2m from next door's so I even stepped onto the grass to avoid that being a problem.

 

[scotrail158713]

There's a video doing the rounds showing a large gathering on Westminster Bridge (including some police) with scant regard for 2m separation. Also the risk of people trying to one-up each other in terms of 'appreciating the NHS' to the point of injuries (there's talk of people letting off fireworks - very possible for those to go nastily wrong)

Nothing wrong with people clapping, but it's this virtue signalling that it's developed into that's worrying.

On my street it’s just simple clapping - we don’t seem to have developed to doing anything else. I’ll keep participating in it - these people deserve the recognition they’re getting.

 

[Mojo]

I must say I noticed people looking around in my street last night as if to notice and show disapproval at those who were not stood out on their doorsteps.

I do worry as if we as a nation are reaffirming the cult of the NHS as if it is our new national religion, making any sort of meaningful reform or criticism of the NHS something akin to hate speech.

 

[Meerkat]

Maybe we should turn it into “stop smoking, drink less, eat better, do more exercise, for the NHS”
Or we could just clap and blame Tories.
I know which would be more effective, but it actually takes some effort.....

 

[leightonbd]

Pleased to see that some of you share my views. It is the 2020 version of the Two Minute Hate. Woe betide if you don’t participate. The Govt, shamelessly, must absolutely love it. Cheap distraction from the real issue.

Ask the clappers the question: would you accept 5p in the pound on your income tax to give the health service a better income and proper resource, and you’d see far too many run for the hills. Sadly.

Goethe: There is nothing more odious than the majority: it consists of a few powerful men to lead the way; of accommodating rascals and submissive weaklings; and of a mass of men who trot after them, without in the least knowing their mind.

 

[Kite159]

I have absolutely no problem with normal people clapping. It is a great boost for people in the NHS. I do wish the same people would stop voting for a party who has tried to gut the NHS and ask themselves why we are in such a mess

You mean like how the labour government of 1997-2010 signed up to many poorly written and costly PFI deals for the NHS, as well as starting to privatise it?

Or are you one of those labour supporters who have carefully removed that government from your memory as being "New Labour"?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I'm pleased also that there are people on the forum with similar views to mine on this issue. As a former NHS Nurse with over 35 years experience and a partner who is still practising (and working extra to cover for staff who are off) we both feel that, while welcoming the support for the NHS in general it really is a bit rich for those who have consistently voted for deep cuts in our Health service to clap for those currently working in extreme conditions caused by those cuts.
My partner is working nights at the moment (and extra shifts on days to provide cover ) and we have had some harrowing debriefs in the morning when she gets home, trying to live separately isn't easy either!

 

[Dai Corner]

I'm pleased also that there are people on the forum with similar views to mine on this issue. As a former NHS Nurse with over 35 years experience and a partner who is still practising (and working extra to cover for staff who are off) we both feel that, while welcoming the support for the NHS in general it really is a bit rich for those who have consistently voted for deep cuts in our Health service to clap for those currently working in extreme conditions caused by those cuts.
My partner is working nights at the moment (and extra shifts on days to provide cover ) and we have had some harrowing debriefs in the morning when she gets home, trying to live separately isn't easy either!

I'm guessing you're in Wales? The Welsh Labour Government remains the only one in the UK to cut its NHS budget in cash terms I believe?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I must say I noticed people looking around in my street last night as if to notice and show disapproval at those who were not stood out on their doorsteps.

I do worry as if we as a nation are reaffirming the cult of the NHS as if it is our new national religion, making any sort of meaningful reform or criticism of the NHS something akin to hate speech.

That is a concern, slightly akin to the outrage about "blaming the Fire Service for Grenfell", which anyone who's been following BBC R4's excellent Grenfell Tower Enquiry Podcast (harrowing at times but worth a listen) will know is not the case, rather what was being done was investigating what went wrong with some of the Fire Service's response, e.g. people still being told to shelter in place when the plan had changed to evacuation.

 

[MDB1images]

It started as a thank you to the Nurses and Doctors, it moved on to all other key workers.
It's now a community feeling and if you don't want to do it you don't have to.
If it boosts one person's morale in this awful time then it's a brilliant thing.

 

[LMS 4F]

I must say I noticed people looking around in my street last night as if to notice and show disapproval at those who were not stood out on their doorsteps.

I do worry as if we as a nation are reaffirming the cult of the NHS as if it is our new national religion, making any sort of meaningful reform or criticism of the NHS something akin to hate speech.

Are the people who run the NHS and get well paid for doing so not blameworthy in some part? Was there no contingency planning to provide the necessary PPE for instance? I've no doubt the front line staff are doing a wonderful job but the idea that the NHS is beyond criticism is just not true and it is far from being the best in the world as many seem to think.

 

[Dai Corner]

Are the people who run the NHS and get well paid for doing so not blameworthy in some part? Was there no contingency planning to provide the necessary PPE for instance? I've no doubt the front line staff are doing a wonderful job but the idea that the NHS is beyond criticism is just not true and it is far from being the best in the world as many seem to think.

I tend to agree that the front line staff are let down by some of the back office staff and management who don't seem to have stepped up and raised their game in the same way to provide their colleagues with what they need.

Having said that, my relatives who work in the front line are getting adequate PPE and so on.

 

[sheff1]

There's a video doing the rounds showing a large gathering on Westminster Bridge (including some police) with scant regard for 2m separation.

So the Met Police are hounding pensioners sitting alone a park bench well over 2m from anyone and then facilitating (and even joining in with) a crowd of people who have clearly travelled to an illegal gathering of over 2 persons. You couldn't make it up.

Fortuntely here, in a more sensible part of the world, those who want to clap do so from their front step and do not glare at anyone not taking part.

 

[scotrail158713]

It started as a thank you to the Nurses and Doctors, it moved on to all other key workers.
It's now a community feeling and if you don't want to do it you don't have to.
If it boosts one person's morale in this awful time then it's a brilliant thing.

I’d agree. It’s a couple of minutes each week that communities can come together and support each other - I’ll be supporting it for as long as it goes on.

 

[bramling]

I’d agree. It’s a couple of minutes each week that communities can come together and support each other - I’ll be supporting it for as long as it goes on.

I’ve mixed views on it.

Personally I find it rather patronising if I’m honest, a bit of a bandwagon thing - especially with some of the stories about people being called out for not participating (yes this is real, I got a passing comment from the busybody of my road on my way from front door to car this morning “didn’t see you clapping last night”, my reply was interesting to say the least). But if NHS staff really appreciate it then perhaps it’s not so bad.

However I tend to agree with the view that people should perhaps put their money where there mouth is. Whilst I wouldn’t go so far as some and link this to voting behaviour, perhaps some thought towards things they can do to help at this time wouldn’t go amiss. How about keeping quiet in the daytime so as to help night workers sleep, keeping the roads clear, restricting supermarket visits to as infrequent as possible, not setting fire to phone masts, et cetera.

At some stage something will have to be done to properly support the current cadre of key workers, as it’s simply not going to be possible to continue with the situation of a (depleted) cohort of people keeping the show going day after day. A particular consideration is many of these roles are safety-critical. Especially once things to start returning towards business as usual and a need to clear backlogs of tasks. Thinking of things from an NHS perspective there must be for example a backlog of non-essential operations.

Fatigue and tiredness will start to take its toll at some point. This needs to be factored into planning. Certainly something for the “cancel their leave and make them work” brigade.

 

[Ianno87]

I also wonder how many people clapping voted Leave and are thus responsible for the fall in NHS nursing staff from EU countries since 2016, who'd be *really* useful right now...