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Class 175 future speculation

Bob Price

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I would imagine the current TfW staff who maintain the 158's will be TUPEd over to CAF and trained on the maintenance of the 197's. If there is an overnight 'big bang' I would imagine when it is done it will be during the quiet season when there are fewer services, less impact.
 
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61653 HTAFC

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I would imagine the current TfW staff who maintain the 158's will be TUPEd over to CAF and trained on the maintenance of the 197's. If there is an overnight 'big bang' I would imagine when it is done it will be during the quiet season when there are fewer services, less impact.
When is "quiet season" on the Cambrian though? If it's not term-time at Aberystwyth Uni, it's high season for holidaymakers up the coast. There's only the Xmas/new year period and that's only a couple of weeks.
 

Lurcheroo

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When is "quiet season" on the Cambrian though? If it's not term-time at Aberystwyth Uni, it's high season for holidaymakers up the coast. There's only the Xmas/new year period and that's only a couple of weeks.
October through April is quiet even on the mainline in real terms. The Uni does generate a bit of traffic but only a noticeable amount of traffic happens around students going home and coming back which is usually a few days of the year. Some random October or November term time weekday like a Tuesday would probably be the Best bet.
Of course any half term, end of term or summer holiday weeks would be an atrocious choice. And even term time weekdays May-September wouldn’t be a great time as general traffic does have a significant up-tick during those months.
 

cymrutruth

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I think there is a misunderstanding here of the leasing arrangements. While there is a lease end date, there is provision in the leasing contracts about return condition If the trains are in not good enough condition (they should be both operable and in condition commensurate with their position in the maintenance cycle) then the TOC has to carry out (or pay for) the dilapidation repairs to return it to an acceptable condition AND will continue paying lease charges until such time as the owner will accept them back as being in suitable condition. This is where most of the Class 175 fleet is now - awaiting handback acceptance.

It’s not the first time this happened, Freightliner had to lease 57001 for many months extra while it was awaiting repair and DRS still have 57301 on lease now as Porterbrook haven’t accepted it back due to condition.
My contacts at Ponty have confirmed this is the case. The units are at Landore doing dilapidation work and has confirmed they are all still on lease to TfW (bar the two now at Ely). Apparently they are in terrible condition. Mouldy, water leaks, engines not starting, fire damage to repair, defects list as long as your arm... doesn't sound good.
 

Nym

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Does sound like someone's taking the approach with Angel of, "Have it mate, send me the bill..."

However, given the condition of the other assets that ATL have at Ely, they'll be in good company.
 

gc4946

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My contacts at Ponty have confirmed this is the case. The units are at Landore doing dilapidation work and has confirmed they are all still on lease to TfW (bar the two now at Ely). Apparently they are in terrible condition. Mouldy, water leaks, engines not starting, fire damage to repair, defects list as long as your arm... doesn't sound good.

Given the state they've got into in, GWR should wait a little bit longer to lease more 150s and 158s once they become available
 

baza585

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Given the state they've got into in, GWR should wait a little bit longer to lease more 150s and 158s once they become available
That would be a far more logical move. 150s for Devon metro, 158s and 166s for Pompey-Cardiff. 165s on Bristol locals and Weymouths.

Does anyone know if the TfW Sprinters are in a better state than the 175s? Heaven knows how long it will take to get the 175s to a leasable state
 

Caaardiff

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The 150's are 40 odd years old. It's been reported elsewhere that Porterbrook aren't renewing the major exams, so when they are due those units are being scrapped. Not sure how that affects the whole TFW 150 fleet.
 

dgl

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My contacts at Ponty have confirmed this is the case. The units are at Landore doing dilapidation work and has confirmed they are all still on lease to TfW (bar the two now at Ely). Apparently they are in terrible condition. Mouldy, water leaks, engines not starting, fire damage to repair, defects list as long as your arm... doesn't sound good.
Isn't that how they left the factory!
 

Anonymous10

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My contacts at Ponty have confirmed this is the case. The units are at Landore doing dilapidation work and has confirmed they are all still on lease to TfW (bar the two now at Ely). Apparently they are in terrible condition. Mouldy, water leaks, engines not starting, fire damage to repair, defects list as long as your arm... doesn't sound good.
Mouldy? When I rode one last summer there was no sign of it. That implies leaks developed while in storage maybe?.
 

SuperLuke2334

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The 150's are 40 odd years old. It's been reported elsewhere that Porterbrook aren't renewing the major exams, so when they are due those units are being scrapped. Not sure how that affects the whole TFW 150 fleet.
150236 has now finished as is due it's C6. They are being stood down as they come up on their C6 exams.
 

Topological

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Sounds like the decision to hand Chester to CAF rather than using an alternative site for the 197s is having further consequences for TfW. Whilst I do believe it is self-inflicted it is sad to think that these trains are in such bad condition, having been running relatively fine for so long.
 

BillStampy

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Sounds like the decision to hand Chester to CAF rather than using an alternative site for the 197s is having further consequences for TfW. Whilst I do believe it is self-inflicted it is sad to think that these trains are in such bad condition, having been running relatively fine for so long.
Unsure where else would the depot go? Other sites like Landore, as shown for the majority of the last few posts, is very much filled with 175s now and Cardiff Canton is a large place with many different fleets and isn't really a maintenance depot like Chester as it says in the name, Cardiff Canton Sidings. Since the 175s haven't exactly gone much of anywhere for a while, with a few not moving at all since their entrance into storage such as 175113 which hasn't moved from Chester since it entered in October, they can't exactly be in any good state, especially without required maintenance which Landore, Holyhead and Crewe cannot provide
 

Energy

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That is a shame, you'd think it'd make sense to once in a while turn them on even if they're being handed back to avoid this.
Meanwhile the 379s were turned on and run around 2 weeks, and were left with dehumidifiers inside. As such they've stayed in good shape.
 

Anonymous10

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Meanwhile the 379s were turned on and run around 2 weeks, and were left with dehumidifiers inside. As such they've stayed in good shape.
Just makes it worse, surely the cost of that would be lower than repairing circa 30 units.
 

Topological

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Unsure where else would the depot go? Other sites like Landore, as shown for the majority of the last few posts, is very much filled with 175s now and Cardiff Canton is a large place with many different fleets and isn't really a maintenance depot like Chester as it says in the name, Cardiff Canton Sidings. Since the 175s haven't exactly gone much of anywhere for a while, with a few not moving at all since their entrance into storage such as 175113 which hasn't moved from Chester since it entered in October, they can't exactly be in any good state, especially without required maintenance which Landore, Holyhead and Crewe cannot provide
There has been extensive discussion on this from people who know a lot more than me. The early idea was a brownfield rail-connected site, which would have had the advantage of adding regeneration of said site. I believe it was still to have been near Chester, but others will know a lot more than me.

A clear advantage with the Hitachi depots was that they were all different locations to the original depots serving the active fleet. Depots like Landore then progressively lost their main purpose. Old Oak Common became the Elizabeth Line and HS2 of course.
 

HamworthyGoods

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150236 has now finished as is due it's C6. They are being stood down as they come up on their C6 exams.

The TfW 150s haven’t had the extensive corrosion repairs many other 150s have had, these means any C6 is likely to take similar timescales to GWR’s 150202 (well over a year) before people jump to these being an easy solution to stock shortages elsewhere.
 

TheWalrus

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The TfW 150s haven’t had the extensive corrosion repairs many other 150s have had, these means any C6 is likely to take similar timescales to GWR’s 150202 (well over a year) before people jump to these being an easy solution to stock shortages elsewhere.
How long would a unit potentially last if the C6 exam was done? How long before it would need doing again? Apologies I know literally NOTHING about this sort of thing!
 

gc4946

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We don't know yet how bad corrosion issues are on TfW's 150s.
Best hope is for GWR to take up as many 158s as can be spared.
 

HamworthyGoods

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We don't know yet how bad corrosion issues are on TfW's 150s.
Best hope is for GWR to take up as many 158s as can be spared.

The TfW didn’t have the extensive corrosion works on the last C6 so the answer it not good…
 

Dan G

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The TfW 150s haven’t had the extensive corrosion repairs many other 150s have had, these means any C6 is likely to take similar timescales to GWR’s 150202 (well over a year) before people jump to these being an easy solution to stock shortages elsewhere.
Are you sure?
We were successful in being awarded a contract by Porterbrook that involved the full external repaint and C6 Heavy Maintenance Exam of 72 x Class 150/2 vehicles, operated by Arriva Trains Wales. The scope of work was additionally developed to include for corrosion repairs
 

gc4946

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The TfW didn’t have the extensive corrosion works on the last C6 so the answer it not good…

Didn't know that so I imagine only a few TfW 150s could be taken over on lease by GWR.
I don't know if there are corrosion issues with the 175s, which could mean GWR examine every vehicle and only take on those in the best condition and reform out of a pool of 27 2- and 3-car units, around 10 or 11 3-car units
 

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