Class 175 to GWR

[fgwrich]

Hopwood has referred to 'refurbishment' [at Wolverton] and I would be surprised if this does not include GWR colours internally including seat trim.

Indeed, especially if they are to see out their lives in the West Country.

 

[Russel]

Has there been any talk of what the first diagram / route may be for the 175 fleet?

I'm in Devon for just over a week in August so may try to hunt one down if any do make it into service by then, though I have my doubts.

The 175 has been my favourite class of DMU right back to the First North Western days.

 

[Snow1964]

I agree but it also gives off a very temporary vibe in my opinion.

Unless anyone knows differently going to be used for at least 5 years, so not really short term usage.

The new stock tender isn't even done yet, so going to be 2030 ish before anything else arrives

 

[Russel]

The new stock tender isn't even done yet, so going to be 2030 ish before anything else arrives

Given what we've seen with recent fleet introductions, such as the SWR and LNWR EMUs, we can safely add an extra year or two to your 2030 estimate before anything enters services.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The new stock tender isn't even done yet, so going to be 2030 ish before anything else arrives

Definitely not that early, Northern are already years into the process and are giving expected 2031 for first entry to service.

 

[150249]

Unless anyone knows differently going to be used for at least 5 years, so not really short term usage.

Yes, exactly. GWR will want them to fall in line with the rest of their rolling stock. I 100% expect they will receive the full livery sooner or later.

 

[D7672]

37510 noted at ely coupled to 175s Wednesday 30th APRIL

 

[Rhydgaled]

Unless anyone knows differently going to be used for at least 5 years, so not really short term usage.

The new stock tender isn't even done yet, so going to be 2030 ish before anything else arrives

I agree but it also gives off a very temporary vibe in my opinion.

A temporary vibe may well be an appropriate reflection of reality then, since it would appear that they are almost certain to last longer than FirstGWR does. I don't know exactly when First Group will make way for Great British Railways; Wikipedia contradicts itself (saying that the process of GBR taking over the DfT franchises is expected to be complete by October 2027 but also that GWR's contract doesn't end until June 2028 with a 'core term' ending in June 2025). Clearly, that 'core term' end date is not when GBR will take over, since GWR is not one of the first three contracts to be replaced by GBR (expected to be SWR, C2C and GA), but GWR has 3 years left to run at best and paint jobs last longer than that (the 'East Coast' silver/grey paint on the mark 4s must have lasted longer than that (latterly under the VTEC vinyls) before they became due for a repaint leading to LNER's new Oxblood/Swallow scheme and didn't some 360/1s carry their original blue coat for at least 15 years).

 

[Goldfish62]

As I’ve said before, I think simply covering the red on the cab and doors with GWR green vinyl would look fine.

Completely agree.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

Surely best to get units into traffic at the earliest opportunity than any further delay for repainting / vinyling etc. I suspect any actual TfW branding will have been removed as they were returned to the leasing company, who cares about the colour itself?

 

[150249]

A temporary vibe may well be an appropriate reflection of reality then, since it would appear that they are almost certain to last longer than FirstGWR does. I don't know exactly when First Group will make way for Great British Railways; Wikipedia contradicts itself (saying that the process of GBR taking over the DfT franchises is expected to be complete by October 2027 but also that GWR's contract doesn't end until June 2028 with a 'core term' ending in June 2025). Clearly, that 'core term' end date is not when GBR will take over, since GWR is not one of the first three contracts to be replaced by GBR (expected to be SWR, C2C and GA), but GWR has 3 years left to run at best and paint jobs last longer than that (the 'East Coast' silver/grey paint on the mark 4s must have lasted longer than that (latterly under the VTEC vinyls) before they became due for a repaint leading to LNER's new Oxblood/Swallow scheme and didn't some 360/1s carry their original blue coat for at least 15 years).

I didn't realise GWR has that little time left. Apologies.

 

[Snow1964]

Wikipedia contradicts itself (saying that the process of GBR taking over the DfT franchises is expected to be complete by October 2027 but also that GWR's contract doesn't end until June 2028 with a 'core term' ending in June 2025). Clearly, that 'core term' end date is not when GBR will take over, since GWR is not one of the first three contracts to be replaced by GBR (expected to be SWR, C2C and GA), but GWR has 3 years left to run at best and paint jobs last longer than that

Don't forget the Government can give notice to terminate at date of their choosing between core date and final contract date.

GWR still had a number of 165/166 units in the old First purple/blue until year or two ago, as they had been painted not long before change to green, so have to allow at least 8 years for whole fleet to get repainted.

SWR still have about 400 vehicles in old SWT colours (and they took over nearly 8 years ago). They should have been withdrawn years ago, but haven't yet, which demonstrates if get expected end date wrong (by many years) then livery intentions are undermined. Even if new BEMUs start to appear from about 2030 (and date could slip), more than a fair chance the 175s will still be in Devon and Cornwall in 8 years time in 2033

 

[Pete_uk]

Image shows what a 175 would look like if partially re-vinaled into dark green (just ignore the TFW branding)
AI image

 

[simonmpoulton]

Image shows what a 175 would look like if partially re-vinaled into dark green (just ignore the TFW branding)
AI image

Front door has completely disappeared! Other than that doesn't look to bad, I don't see it saving that much money just doing those parts though. I reckon they'd look good in BR blue though!

 

[Pete_uk]

Oh the blue is nice!

 

[Goldfish62]

Front door has completely disappeared! Other than that doesn't look to bad, I don't see it saving that much money just doing those parts though. I reckon they'd look good in BR blue though!

Back to the drab, dreary days of the 70s! I remember them only too well.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Front door has completely disappeared! Other than that doesn't look to bad, I don't see it saving that much money just doing those parts though. I reckon they'd look good in BR blue though!

What about blue and grey...? Pretty please...?

 

[_toommm_]

Image shows what a 175 would look like if partially re-vinaled into dark green (just ignore the TFW branding)
AI image

Vaguely reminiscent of the GWR fag packet livery.

 

[Doomotron]

Vaguely reminiscent of the GWR fag packet livery.

I'd say it's closer to an inverted Merlin livery.

 

[_toommm_]

I'd say it's closer to an inverted Merlin livery.

That's the one I was thinking of - both very much before my time.

 

[Ashley Hill]

Image shows what a 175 would look like if partially re-vinaled into dark green (just ignore the TFW branding)
AI image

I know GWR will probably persevere with the bland all-over green,but to get the units out quickly this AI livery would be quite acceptable in the interim.

 

[Doomotron]

I know GWR will probably persevere with the bland all-over green,but to get the units out quickly this AI livery would be quite acceptable in the interim.

While slightly off-topic, I do like weird interim liveries like the white with green proposed on this thread. I like the weird Gatwick Express/GN combinations as well.

 

[Pete_uk]

That's the one I was thinking of - both very much before my time.

That livery on the HSTs was so smart.

 

[cce]

Wasn't the GWR livery one of the ones intended to persist past the end of franchises to create consistent branding?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Wasn't the GWR livery one of the ones intended to persist past the end of franchises to create consistent branding?

I hope so, it's a reasonably strong brand, I imagine many TOCs will keep their name as they are bland names.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Wasn't the GWR livery one of the ones intended to persist past the end of franchises to create consistent branding?

The GWR livery predates COVID-19, let alone the new Labour government that promised to abolish the privatised passenger train operator model. I cannot remember exactly when franchises fell out of favour in favour of management contracts, but before Keir Starmer's current government took power GBR was not going to run trains itself. Instead, it was meerly going to take over the DfT's responsibility for running competitions for operating contracts. Train operations would therefore still have been broken up into various 'silos' run by a hotchpotch of different private operators, whether or not the contracts for doing so were known as 'franchises', 'national rail contracts' or something else. Now that GBR will actually bring all the DfT franchises 'in house', they have the opportunity to abolish 'silos' altogether, though it remains to be seen whether they will.

 

[GoneSouth]

Vaguely reminiscent of the GWR fag packet livery.

What the heck is the fag packet livery?

 

[Ashley Hill]

Here is a picture of an HST in “fag packet” livery.

Photo,Merchant Venturer

 

[fgwrich]

Here is a picture of an HST in “fag packet” livery.
View attachment 179326
Photo,Merchant Venturer

Further to that, it was dubbed (somewhat unfairly) the “Fag Packet” livery due to a slight resemblance to the Superkings packets of the time, particularly their Menthol products.

In reality, it was an application of a striped gold vinyl band across the former Great Western Trains Merlin livery. Ironically, whilst Fag Packet didn’t last that long on the HSTs with the roll out of Barbie, it lasted a lot longer on the Night Riviera - where the Mk2 replacement vehicles (BFO, TSO, RFM) were placed into Fag Packet long after Barbie had become the norm.

 

[cce]

The GWR livery predates COVID-19, let alone the new Labour government that promised to abolish the privatised passenger train operator model. I cannot remember exactly when franchises fell out of favour in favour of management contracts, but before Keir Starmer's current government took power GBR was not going to run trains itself. Instead, it was meerly going to take over the DfT's responsibility for running competitions for operating contracts. Train operations would therefore still have been broken up into various 'silos' run by a hotchpotch of different private operators, whether or not the contracts for doing so were known as 'franchises', 'national rail contracts' or something else. Now that GBR will actually bring all the DfT franchises 'in house', they have the opportunity to abolish 'silos' altogether, though it remains to be seen whether they will.

I recall a prior plan where the broad brand was supposed to say consistent even when franchising was still a thing