Class 180 Adelantes leaving EMR

[gabrielhj07]

Doubtful. A five car will be taken out of service if less than three engines are running.

I dread to think how slowly it would run on only one of five!

Thanks

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The 222s are worked very hard so this isn't surprising

Although on far shorter routes than the other two members of the Voyager family. That said, I think they’re wonderful trains.

 

[43066]

Although on far shorter routes than the other two members of the Voyager family. That said, I think they’re wonderful trains.

Shorter routes, but AIUI more intensively worked than the others, with shorter turnarounds and higher average speeds, certainly than XC’s fleet.

They are absolutely flogged. Big shoes for the 810s to fill.

 

[The_Train]

It seems like there are a few cancellations due to faults on 222s today according to EMRs status checker.

Has the dirt and grime from inside and outside these horrid units finally started to impact the engines?

 

[TheWalrus]

3 of the 4 180s out today - one of them is not on the extra diagrams - e.g. 180110 is on https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G69912/2023-05-29/detailed#allox_id=0 and https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:G69847/2023-05-29/detailed

It seems like there are a few cancellations due to faults on 222s today according to EMRs status checker.

Sorry am I missing something here - the 180s are still in service with EMR? If so how long for? I was still under the impression they were withdrawn at the May timetable change.

 

[cactustwirly]

Although on far shorter routes than the other two members of the Voyager family. That said, I think they’re wonderful trains.

They are ok, but they suffer from the same problems as the Voyagers, not enough seats and the ridiculously shallow overhead racks which doesn't fit anything

 

[rustbucket]

Sorry am I missing something here - the 180s are still in service with EMR? If so how long for? I was still under the impression they were withdrawn at the May timetable change.

1 day only reprieve to provide extra capacity for Sheffield vs Barnsley play off final at Wembley

 

[louis97]

Sorry am I missing something here - the 180s are still in service with EMR? If so how long for? I was still under the impression they were withdrawn at the May timetable change.

Lease expires at the end of the month.

 

[rg177]

Shorter routes, but AIUI more intensively worked than the others, with shorter turnarounds and higher average speeds, certainly than XC’s fleet.

They are absolutely flogged. Big shoes for the 810s to fill.

I used to be quite taken aback when I lived in Sheffield when I'd be arriving ex-London (on time) only to be battling my way off as everyone's trying to shove their way on for a departure back south in <15 minutes.

Not what you'd expect, but they certainly do well to deal with it.

 

[MCR247]

I heard somewhere that 222103 is running on 1/5 engines, is this true?

Doubtful. A five car will be taken out of service if less than three engines are running.

I dread to think how slowly it would run on only one of five!

It has, however, spent the whole day as part of a 10 car formation with 222010. No idea about how many engines it’s on though

 

[43066]

It has, however, spent the whole day as part of a 10 car formation with 222010. No idea about how many engines it’s on though

That would be doable - just - assuming all five in the other set are working. The guideline is minimum 60% of engines running on any formation.

EDIT: and that reminds me 222010 was down two engines the other day, so it must have been patched up.

 

[baz962]

Doubtful. A five car will be taken out of service if less than three engines are running.

I dread to think how slowly it would run on only one of five!

Good lord. Probably wouldn't get up any hills whatsoever.

 

[Hairy Bear]

222103 entered service with 1 engine out. At Pancras 2 more would not restart. Fitters attention got 1 more going. Left Pancras with 7 out of 10 running.
But all perfectly normal for the fleet, been like it since early days to be honest.

 

[QSK19]

I caught the last ever southbound 180 service with my son this evening. Kept it as a surprise for him and the first thing he asked - after getting over the excitement of seeing one - was why the carriages had been de-branded!

This particular one was 180110 and, IMO, it was running pretty well for its last hurrah. The repaired car looked absolutely gleaming.

Overall, I’m sad to see them go*; so I’m really glad we got this last, rather unexpected, go on one.

A couple of pics from Leicester station attached, one showing a de-branded carriage.

* I know that many will not miss the 180s one bit; but they’re special to my son (they’re his favourite type), so for that reason they’re special to me too.

Sorry am I missing something here - the 180s are still in service with EMR? If so how long for? I was still under the impression they were withdrawn at the May timetable change.

Just for today - train crew aboard said that it was to provide extra capacity in light of Sheffield Wednesday playing at Wembley today. Might as well make use of them whilst the lease is still active.

I heard somewhere that 222103 is running on 1/5 engines, is this true?

A northbound 10-car service made up of 010 and 103 called into Loughborough at around 7:30pm. From re-watching the video, sounds like all the engines on 103 were running and 010 was running on 4 of 5.

It has, however, spent the whole day as part of a 10 car formation with 222010. No idea about how many engines it’s on though

When it called into Loughborough at around 7:30pm, it seemed like all 103’s engines were running and 010 had 4 out of 5 running.

 

[BJames]

Lease expires at the end of the month.

I stand by the fact that these units are past their time and have clearly all manner of breakdowns but the flexibility that EMR were able to show today was great, so it is a bit of a shame that these units are not around to provide this kind of relief in the future (particularly for Skegness but in general to cover). Let's hope we can get the 810s in without too much of a fuss...

How the tables have turned

Well indeed

 

[londonmidland]

Shorter routes, but AIUI more intensively worked than the others, with shorter turnarounds and higher average speeds, certainly than XC’s fleet.

They are absolutely flogged. Big shoes for the 810s to fill.

That's both surprising and not surprising at the same time, if that makes sense.

At first thought, you'd think the XC Voyagers would be the most insensitively used (excluding AWC from this comparison) due to their long route nature, with it being Plymouth - Edinburgh and even further, with little 'breaks' in between. Plus you've got the Lickey Incline to content with, as well as the 'thrashing' up and down the ECML between York and Edinburgh.

Though the MML equally has its challenges set out for the 222s, with it being up hill all the way from the outskirts of Chesterfield to Sheffield. Plus the challenging gradients between Harlington - Luton - St. Albans. Plus the majority of 222s go non-stop between Leicester and London.

Would be interesting to find a direct comparison on how intensive both trains are worked, although that would be for another thread.

 

[D365]

Though the MML equally has its challenges set out for the 222s, with it being up hill all the way from the outskirts of Chesterfield to Sheffield.

The CrossCountry Voyagers share that route too, between Derby and Sheffield, but you are right on all your points.

 

[Dan G]

I caught the last ever southbound 180 service with my son this evening. Kept it as a surprise for him and the first thing he asked - after getting over the excitement of seeing one - was why the carriages had been de-branded!

This particular one was 180110 and, IMO, it was running pretty well for its last hurrah. The repaired car looked absolutely gleaming.

Overall, I’m sad to see them go*; so I’m really glad we got this last, rather unexpected, go on one.

A couple of pics from Leicester station attached, one showing a de-branded carriage.

* I know that many will not miss the 180s one bit; but they’re special to my son (they’re his favourite type), so for that reason they’re special to me too.

Say hi to your son for me – when 180s first ran with FGR 20-odd years ago they were my favourites. A little noiser inside than an HST but rode as well with better cabins, and were much faster off the line.

 

[QSK19]

Say hi to your son for me – when 180s first ran with FGR 20-odd years ago they were my favourites. A little noiser inside than an HST but rode as well with better cabins, and were much faster off the line.

Will do! To be honest, I didn’t think they were that bad above the bogies - the interior was very tired admittedly; however they felt comfortable. Others will no doubt disagree in terms of having anything positive to say about that (and indeed the trains as a whole); however I think the various grievances about seating on newer stock mean that the 180 seating wasn’t actually that bad.

 

[Energy]

Will do! To be honest, I didn’t think they were that bad above the bogies - the interior was very tired admittedly; however they felt comfortable. Others will no doubt disagree in terms of having anything positive to say about that (and indeed the trains as a whole); however I think the various grievances about seating on newer stock mean that the 180 seating wasn’t actually that bad.

Complaints about the 180s have always been about the unreliability, the interior is fine (though the roof mounted both containing a dot matrix PIS screen is rather ugly).

 

[Wyrleybart]

Will do! To be honest, I didn’t think they were that bad above the bogies - the interior was very tired admittedly; however they felt comfortable. Others will no doubt disagree in terms of having anything positive to say about that (and indeed the trains as a whole); however I think the various grievances about seating on newer stock mean that the 180 seating wasn’t actually that bad.

I agree that above the solebar the 180 is a very nice train. Only ridden in then twice and my memorable journey was Bristol Parkway - Swindon in one on a hot summers day. I stepped into the vestibule at Bristol Parkway and the cool air was just wonderful. I also recall a nice bright airy interior of a fullsize coach - reminiscent then of a Mk3 coach, rather than the airline "tube" of the voyager I had just arrived on.

So if you could plant the Adelante body on Mk3 coach bogies they would be very nice vehicles. Sadly instead they were built on very poorly designed electrics and hydraulics which have nee a constant source of frustration to their operators, although I cannot recall how FNW found them when they pottered around Lancashire and Cheshire.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

Like I say it’s possible but highly unlikely. Should just keep the HSTs as DaFT obviously don’t know or care about how dire XC capacity is!

The DfT are only following instructions from the treasury…

 

[TheWalrus]

The DfT are only following instructions from the treasury…

I know they are dictated to by the government but I’m sure we will agree the instructions don’t make a lot of sense when cross country have for a long time suffered with severe overcrowding.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I know they are dictated to by the government but I’m sure we will agree the instructions don’t make a lot of sense when cross country have for a long time suffered with severe overcrowding.

Pretty much since 4 car voyagers replaced 7 coach HSTs and LHCS in erm 2001/2002.

 

[TheWalrus]

Pretty much since 4 car voyagers replaced 7 coach HSTs and LHCS in erm 2001/2002.

I know and 22 years later it still hasn’t been solved. It wasn’t too bad when the core was hourly instead of half-hourly up until the May timetable change just gone and now the HSTs are going I can’t see that making things better!

 

[DannyMich2018]

Sunday just gone (28th) was very busy due football amongst other things. The train I took back 2032 from Leicester to Kett full and standing. Many others very busy. EMR did in fact usually diagram 3 180s on Sundays (one been a double set) so without them I can imagine weekends been interesting!! Also last Friday I noticed that 2 evening services out of St Pancras were 5 car not double (17.26 and 18.26 from Kettering) so these maybe booked 5 now instead of 10 , although neither of these are terribly busy.

 

[19Gnasher69]

QSK19 noted above that 180110’s repaired car ‘looked gleaming’. Out of interest, what work was done on this coach?
I seem to recall that it was reported to have suffered corrosion. Was the recent work on it extensive?
Presumably EMR was obliged to return it to the leasing company in a certain condition but it seems crazy that lots of money would be spent given the remote probability of the unit being found another TOC.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

QSK19 noted above that 180110’s repaired car ‘looked gleaming’. Out of interest, what work was done on this coach?
I seem to recall that it was reported to have suffered corrosion. Was the recent work on it extensive?
Presumably EMR was obliged to return it to the leasing company in a certain condition but it seems crazy that lots of money would be spent given the remote probability of the unit being found another TOC.

Unfortunately just what happens when you have a ROSCO and TOC leasing set up.

 

[3RDGEN]

QSK19 noted above that 180110’s repaired car ‘looked gleaming’. Out of interest, what work was done on this coach?
I seem to recall that it was reported to have suffered corrosion. Was the recent work on it extensive?
Presumably EMR was obliged to return it to the leasing company in a certain condition but it seems crazy that lots of money would be spent given the remote probability of the unit being found another TOC.

EMR will not of paid as the corrosion issues have been known of prior to EMR being involved so it's either Alstom or Angel that pick up the cost. Alstom will say they didn't maintain them and Angel will say the trains you did maintain had issues so just one big bun fight.

 

[Mikw]

I'll miss the 180's. Really likes the comfort and air con.
Also they saved me some money on my 5 trips, 2 of them broke down and i got "delay/repay" refunds!
When they're working though i really likes them.