TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
If they do, ScotRail will want to replace these brand new seat covers with blue Satire ones as per standards.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
Class 222 refurbishment
- Thread starter STINT47
- Start date
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
dereksingh291
On Moderation
are the 222s definitely off to scotrail, if so then when will they leave EMR?
There has not been any announcement so nothing has changed. They can't leave EMR until the 810s are in service.
dereksingh291
On Moderation
then when are the 810s entering service with EMR?
Whenever they're ready. There's no set date yet
QSK19
Member
No time soon - 810001 has only fairly recently started testing at Old Dalby. I would hazard a guess at Q4 2024 or Q1 2025.
Skymonster
Established Member
- Joined
- 7 Feb 2012
- Messages
- 1,743
I said a long time ago that Insider information was that the 222s would go to Jockrail. We’ll see. Meantime it’s sad in terms of how EMR values customers that the refresh is seemingly starting [again] now, now that the fleet is approaching its retirement at EMR. Even so I have little faith... Eighteen months ago in May 2022 the Meridians were going to get more than 5,000 new seat covers - and other upgrades. What happened to those?
news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
EMR refresh Intercity fleet: New seat covers, toilet interiors and special anti-bacterial protection
5300 seat covers to be refreshed or replaced Class 222 Intercity train toilets given new interiors First train operator to use new state-of-the art anti-bacterial product
news.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
GWVillager
Member
See “refreshed or replaced” and “we’ve identified a number of seats that fall below our standards”. It appears that they only replaced the most egregious examples, and just cleaned the rest.I said a long time ago that Insider information was that the 222s would go to Jockrail. We’ll see. Meantime it’s sad in terms of how EMR values customers that the refresh is seemingly starting [again] now, now that the fleet is approaching its retirement at EMR. Even so I have little faith... Eighteen months ago in May 2022 the Meridians were going to get more than 5,000 new seat covers - and other upgrades. What happened to those?
EMR refresh Intercity fleet: New seat covers, toilet interiors and special anti-bacterial protection
5300 seat covers to be refreshed or replaced Class 222 Intercity train toilets given new interiors First train operator to use new state-of-the art anti-bacterial product
STINT47
Member
The trains thar I have seen today znd earlier this week have often been really dirty. It's not all of them but EMR still have an issue with train presentation.
Nope, nothing has been confirmed.
There's been lots of mootings about bodies who are advocating for early removal of the HSTs in favour of 222s, but this is nothing more than glorified stakeholder feedback, rather than anything that has any tangable decision making power within ScotRail and Transport Scotland. Hence why the rumours and speculation is so rife, and unnecessarily so.
Bornin1980s
Member
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2017
- Messages
- 495
Genuine question; are the 222s any more spacious or more comfortable than the Voyagers? Asking as a tall man.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
If I recall slightly better but not much in it.
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
I'd personally say the 222 has the nicest standard class seats of any British train in my personal opinion. They're very spongey, wide and have very generous wings for one to use as a decent headrest. I think a lot would say they're a fair bit nicer than a Voyager. I personally love both. The Voyager holds a lot of personal nostalgia for me, but I would agree the Meridian is more comfortable. Not much in the legroom.
However - although the seats in the Meridian are wider, they're joined together rather than individual seats, which may make sitting in an airline seat a little claustrophobic for some perhaps.
GWVillager
Member
Of course, the profile is identical. There’s not a huge amount of difference in space, though I find the larger seats can make the 222s feel a little more cramped. I agree with TT-ONR, though, they are very comfortable.
InTheEastMids
Member
- Joined
- 31 Jan 2016
- Messages
- 733
For those with the good fortune to not be a regular MML user, Twitter/X this morning has a photo of a particularly egregious example of the 222's condition, that a couple of well-known rail journalists have commented on.
The image in the tweet linked below is of the seat cushions of 2 seats on an East Midlands Railway Cl222, taken from above. The seat covers are red, dating from the Stagecoach/EMT refurbishment around 2008. On the aisle seat, the seat cover has torn away at the front edge, and it appears that the exposed cushion foam has also been torn away. The seat cushions on both window and aisle seats are heavily stained, and the metal table edge also shows ground-in dirt/staining.
The image in the tweet linked below is of the seat cushions of 2 seats on an East Midlands Railway Cl222, taken from above. The seat covers are red, dating from the Stagecoach/EMT refurbishment around 2008. On the aisle seat, the seat cover has torn away at the front edge, and it appears that the exposed cushion foam has also been torn away. The seat cushions on both window and aisle seats are heavily stained, and the metal table edge also shows ground-in dirt/staining.
QSK19
Member
To be honest, we in EMR-land are so used to it that, IMO, anything above that standard of condition is like a birthday present! A damning indictment on the East Midlands’ rolling stock situation.
I’m just worried that the 810s are going to get trashed. EMR doesn’t deserve what, on evidence up to now, will be lovely trains. Should have kept the 222s without a refurbishment budget and given the AT300s to a more respectful TOC. EMR’s passengers deserve so much better.
dorsetdesiro
Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 583
I do like the grey fabric for the 222s' mini-refurb, looks smart & business like as the intercity stock previously used by Greater Anglia and currently by Chiltern.
Makes sense as a stop gap measure until the 222's either get burgundy XC or blue ScotRail colours, wherever they do end up.
Regarding the damaged interiors, either it is the fault of the passengers being rough or the maintenance staff being negligent, I feel the new 810 seating should be in a darker colour as I think these are specified in a lilac sort of colour - going to get filthy quickly!
Makes sense as a stop gap measure until the 222's either get burgundy XC or blue ScotRail colours, wherever they do end up.
Regarding the damaged interiors, either it is the fault of the passengers being rough or the maintenance staff being negligent, I feel the new 810 seating should be in a darker colour as I think these are specified in a lilac sort of colour - going to get filthy quickly!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I'm not a great fan of the washed out purple EMR seem to be putting everywhere in the interiors. It's all a bit 1990s FirstGroup. But I do seem to recall they're going for light coloured headrests as Avanti did, and they will indeed just get very mucky very quickly.
43096
On Moderation
- Joined
- 23 Nov 2015
- Messages
- 15,307
Or neither. It’s simply that the seat cushions and covers are life expired and until now there’s been no funding from DfT to replace them.
19Gnasher69
Member
That said, at least lighter colours allow a passenger to see the soiling left behind by the careless/wantonly disgusting/uneducated people we have the misfortune to share our trains with.
dorsetdesiro
Member
- Joined
- 30 Oct 2017
- Messages
- 583
As the EMR livery thread is no longer open, I realise I have grown to like the livery that I think it was a missed opportunity SWR didn't go for a similar approach when it began in 2017.
Think of the EMR livery however with dark red/maroon colour scheme with "S W R", would have fit in nicely with sister company GWR.
Really wished the fake "LSWR" branding rumour that went round was true ha ha!
Think of the EMR livery however with dark red/maroon colour scheme with "S W R", would have fit in nicely with sister company GWR.
Really wished the fake "LSWR" branding rumour that went round was true ha ha!
delt1c
Established Member
- Joined
- 4 Apr 2008
- Messages
- 2,125
Sorry who is Jockrail, dont remeber an operator by that nameI said a long time ago that Insider information was that the 222s would go to Jockrail. We’ll see. Meantime it’s sad in terms of how EMR values customers that the refresh is seemingly starting [again] now, now that the fleet is approaching its retirement at EMR. Even so I have little faith... Eighteen months ago in May 2022 the Meridians were going to get more than 5,000 new seat covers - and other upgrades. What happened to those?
EMR refresh Intercity fleet: New seat covers, toilet interiors and special anti-bacterial protection
5300 seat covers to be refreshed or replaced Class 222 Intercity train toilets given new interiors First train operator to use new state-of-the art anti-bacterial product
RailWonderer
Established Member
They are pleasant though I preferred the Lazzerini seats on my 170 return journey. Those headrest wings and filthy and blackened, I wouldn't rest my head on them.
dereksingh291
On Moderation
Got any photos and has first class been refurbished?
duffield
Established Member
From my personal experience I'd say that First on the 222s is actually in a pretty good state and just fine to see out the rest of their use by EMR (2 years maybe?).
Snow1964
Established Member
When the 810s were ordered (July 2019), some were supposed to be in service during 2022 with remainder during 2023
Abellio invests £400 million in new trains for East Midlands Railway | EMR
Abellio UK, recently awarded the new eight-year EMR franchise by the Department for Transport, has awarded a £400 million contract to Hitachi Rail to build a pioneering new fleet of intercity trains.
www.eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk
Presumably as originally planned all (not some) of the 222s would have transferred away about now. So looking like delay to 810s has added about 2.5 years extra to 222s with East Midlands.
Adding 2.5 years use (which could easily be nearer 3-4 years) sort of forces a refurbishment question, on how much needs doing
GWVillager
Member
From everything I’ve read, it looks to only be standard class, but I’m unsure. It feels a bit like a missed opportunity if so, but I suppose it’s not as urgent - you get what you’re given!
Trial, perhaps?
Regarding the Twitter page linked above with the image of the knackered seats; that is an appalling state for an intercity train to be in, but at least that seat evidently has some padding on it! Users of a certain fleet of far newer intercity trains who find themselves essentially sitting on a metal bar for hours may well be inclined to swap their offering for the above, regardless of how smart the respective seat coverings may or may not be!