Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Driver's are being trained to to come into stations stupidly slow? Really?

Why would this matter be needed?

 

[TDK]

Sorry don't understand your question?

 

[315801]

I recall from riding the line on a few occasions that there are plenty of sections where there are trees and come autumn and winter time, there will be the famous leaf and water mulch on the rails, added to that, there are numerous gradients on the line aswell.

These gradients were often a struggle for 9F locomotives when the john summers ore trains used to run and in more recent times, when engineering trains are leaving the wirral after their possession of any of the merseyrail track are completed, the locomotives working the trains are having to work with their engines revving flat out.

From Bidston to Upton the current class 150 units can get up to a decent speed once they have passed under the flyover and can run with relative ease to Upton with not much revving of the engines, once they depart Upton its engines on full until Heswall station and then from there to Neston is also on a gradient.

I would imagine that when running in thd direction towards Bidston that it would therefore be quite easy to overshoot 1 of the station stops

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sorry don't understand your question?

I was referring to the comment made by a driver who said the training involved the coming into stations at a low speed.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I was referring to the comment made by a driver who said the training involved the coming into stations at a low speed.

It is all about the drivers getting used to handling the new trains. Once they have a feel for how different ones of the same class handle, they will naturally develop a feel for how much poorer the poorer ones are than the good ones. Give it six months and you will have forgotten all of this.

 

[EngFocus]

They can be as senior as they like, I drive them and 197’s are quicker. Drivers are being trained to come into stations stupidly slow, so maybe this is where time is being lost but I’ve actually been using them how they’ve been designed and timing between Manchester/Liverpool and Llandudno have dropped a lot for me.

Perhaps the time of year when the unit was tested on the line plus drivers getting used to the units had something to do with it. I've no doubt they should be quicker, but I was advised they would only work the skip stop services.


Noticed the 230s that have been out the last 2 weeks seem to be non-stop or slow passes which makes me wonder if they're driver training or testing runs?

 

[OutdoorM]

Living quite close to Heswall Station, the 230's do seem nice and quiet as they pass.

Does anyone know whether in their current layout they would technically be able to proceed onto Merseyrail and charge batteries as they travel from Bidston around the loop and back to Bidston?

Also, how does the seating compare to the 777's?

Cheers

 

[D821]

They don't have third rail shoes and can only charge off the diesel engines, which I don't think they would be allowed the run on the underground Merseyrail sections.

 

[EngFocus]

Living quite close to Heswall Station, the 230's do seem nice and quiet as they pass.

Does anyone know whether in their current layout they would technically be able to proceed onto Merseyrail and charge batteries as they travel from Bidston around the loop and back to Bidston?

Also, how does the seating compare to the 777's?

Cheers

They no longer have cab end doors so wouldn't be allowed to go into the loop and I don't think vehicles with diesel tanks could work regularly in the tunnels, other than the odd Class 73 hauled inspection train. The current battery configuration wouldn't have enough range for the engines to be removed all together.

 

[OutdoorM]

Thanks both.

In that case I hope they are just an interim until they can either be adapted to use Merseyrail / enter the loop, or are replaced by a bemu such as the 777 battery edition.

But for now, they are quieter as they pass whilst I work from home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They no longer have cab end doors so wouldn't be allowed to go into the loop and I don't think vehicles with diesel tanks could work regularly in the tunnels, other than the odd Class 73 hauled inspection train. The current battery configuration wouldn't have enough range for the engines to be removed all together.

The Loop would be an issue, but I have wondered about terminating them at James St in the disused platform. That said, I suspect 777s will end up offering a through service at some point if there is to be one.

 

[D821]

The Loop would be an issue, but I have wondered about terminating them at James St in the disused platform. That said, I suspect 777s will end up offering a through service at some point if there is to be one.

They seem to have the track cleaning trains idling there on a regular basis, though, I believe from what I've read on here that those units have scrubbed fitted on their exhausts.

 

[D365]

Thanks both.

In that case I hope they are just an interim until they can either be adapted to use Merseyrail / enter the loop, or are replaced by a bemu such as the 777 battery edition.

Far more likely. Albeit, in the realm of speculative territory.

 

[emoaconr]

They seem to have the track cleaning trains idling there on a regular basis, though, I believe from what I've read on here that those units have scrubbed fitted on their exhausts.

230s could not - not simply just because they are diesel (although that's a huge reason obviously) - it's because to reach James Street from the north Wirral lines (via Birkenhead North), trains must return via the single bore tunnel and Platform 3 in Hamilton Square (not the case for south Wirral services to Chester/Ellesmere Port). The 230s don't have front-end emergency doors and the single-bore tunnels do not have an emergency walkway to escape through the side passenger doors.

You are right in that you'll see diesel sandite MPVs and other locos in the tunnels, usually off-peak and usually in the double-track lines, including the Liverpool Link line.

 

[D365]

230s could not - not simply just because they are diesel (although that's a huge reason obviously) - it's because to reach James Street from the north Wirral lines (via Birkenhead North), trains must return via the single bore tunnel and Platform 3 in Hamilton Square (not the case for south Wirral services to Chester/Ellesmere Port). The 230s don't have front-end emergency doors and the single-bore tunnels do not have an emergency walkway to escape through the side passenger doors.

Not insurmountable if the engines are isolated for this portion of the route. But yes the lack of front-end emergency doors is what precludes them.

 

[EngFocus]

Thanks both.

In that case I hope they are just an interim until they can either be adapted to use Merseyrail / enter the loop, or are replaced by a bemu such as the 777 battery edition.

But for now, they are quieter as they pass whilst I work from home.

That's what groups like the Wrexham-Bidston Rail User's and Growthtrack360 are hoping and campaigning for. I hear even the Welsh Government is working on developing plans for 4tph to operate through to Liverpool. But will require charging facilities at the Wrexham end and additional block sections, which won't be cheap.

For now the cl230s + a cl197 will (hopefully) allow TfW to operate a half hourly service, which I hope people take advantage of. If people don't use the service when it's half hourly there may be little appetite to fund further improvements.

 

[Jacob Porrett]

I saw 230006/007 sitting outside Birkenhead depot yesterday afternoon (4/3/23) not doing alot. First time I've seen the TFW 230s.

 

[L401CJF]

They've been out and about near enough daily (mon-fri) for the last week or 2 for crew training. I've not heard of any issues so far!

 

[tomm]

Is that where the TFW class 230s are based for maintenance any signs of them entering service in May.

 

[6Gtraincrew]

009 and 010 arrived in Chester at around 11:20 this morning. Going for fuel

 

[anthony263]

Is that where the TFW class 230s are based for maintenance any signs of them entering service in May.

Could be likely if all goes to plan in fact it be good PR for Tfw .

 

[SuperLuke2334]

Is that where the TFW class 230s are based for maintenance any signs of them entering service in May.

They are based at Birkenhead North yes, maintenance contracted out to Stadler there plus fuelling can happen there. May TT change looks hopeful for now providing no further setbacks.

 

[DavidGrain]

I thought that fuelling could not be done at Birkenhead because it is an all electric MerseyRail depot. That is why the units have to make trips to Chester every so often. Presumably Chester Depot crews have to go by road to Birkenhead unless one unit will be kept at Wrexham. I noticed when I was staying in the Premier Inn overlooking the station there was a unit overnight in the sidings.

 

[jamesst]

I thought that fuelling could not be done at Birkenhead because it is an all electric MerseyRail depot. That is why the units have to make trips to Chester every so often. Presumably Chester Depot crews have to go by road to Birkenhead unless one unit will be kept at Wrexham. I noticed when I was staying in the Premier Inn overlooking the station there was a unit overnight in the sidings.

Theres a fuelling and toilet tanking point installed at Birkenhead North on A road now

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Theres a fuelling and toilet tanking point installed at Birkenhead North on A road now

It hasn't been commissioned yet, so that's why they are still being done at CTR

 

[Baxenden Bank]

I thought that fuelling could not be done at Birkenhead because it is an all electric MerseyRail depot. That is why the units have to make trips to Chester every so often. Presumably Chester Depot crews have to go by road to Birkenhead unless one unit will be kept at Wrexham. I noticed when I was staying in the Premier Inn overlooking the station there was a unit overnight in the sidings.

The proposed December 2023 timetable (consulted upon recently) has all four units commencing at Wrexham rather than Bidston.

 

[Liverpool 507]

Are TfW still expecting one diagram to be a 197 or x4 230s available for use?

 

[tomm]

It hasn't been commissioned yet, so that's why they are still being done at CTR

So they are used at both Birkenhead North and CTR Chester.

 

[tomm]

are they using both Birkenhead North and CTR Chester.

 

[L401CJF]

So they are used at both Birkenhead North and CTR Chester.

Currently they are going to Chester for fuel as the facilities at North arnt up and running. Once they are there will be no need for them to visit Chester.