Class 230 units training/introduction on the Borderlands line: updates

[Krokodil]

18 months… but in service for 1. You don’t mean to say the “ordinary passengers” snuck aboard the test rides, surely?

If you re-read what he said:

Vivarail units have been working my local line for 18 months now

You will see that he's talking about Vivarail units in general, not the TfW ones in particular. Presumably he lives either on the Isle of Wight, or near the Marston Vale line.

So perhaps we might see less of the sarcasm.

 

[Peter Sarf]

If you re-read what he said:

You will see that he's talking about Vivarail units in general, not the TfW ones in particular. Presumably he lives either on the Isle of Wight, or near the Marston Vale line.

So perhaps we might see less of the sarcasm.

Aye. Lets face it - does it really matter what the Borderlands 230s' heritage giveaway clues are ?. They look quite smart in the pictures so I doubt they are absolute rubbish ergonomically in reality. They have a toilet which sets them miles apart from D78s and 455s. They are supposed to be cheaper to run and look to be coping with the tight timetable. So I suspect many passengers will be more interested in the service they provide rather than a few ergonomic flash backs to a train the vast majority of them have never ridden on.

 

[childwallblues]

Aye. Lets face it - does it really matter what the Borderlands 230s' heritage giveaway clues are ?. They look quite smart in the pictures so I doubt they are absolute rubbish ergonomically in reality. They have a toilet which sets them miles apart from D78s and 455s. They are supposed to be cheaper to run and look to be coping with the tight timetable. So I suspect many passengers will be more interested in the service they provide rather than a few ergonomic flash backs to a train the vast majority of them have never ridden on.

Well said Peter. What I have always said is that it is the opinions of the local people and regular users of the line that count.

 

[D821]

Without wanting to go off at too much of a tangent, where do they discharge the toilet tanks on the 230s? I'm guessing they're not setup to do this at Birkenhead North.

 

[Djgr]

I wonder how many of the 100,000s who travelled on the District line will be using the Borderlands Line. Even if someone does will they recognise the fixings ?. Will they care about all that or will they care about how clean and quiet they are ?.

Ha ha

I gave up a life commuting on the District line to one of travelling on the Borderlands line...and would highly recommend it!

 

[L401CJF]

Without wanting to go off at too much of a tangent, where do they discharge the toilet tanks on the 230s? I'm guessing they're not setup to do this at Birkenhead North.

I believe toilet tanking facilities have been put in place at BKN.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Ha ha

I gave up a life commuting on the District line to one of travelling on the Borderlands line...and would highly recommend it!

Ah yes. A crowded D78 in tunnels vs a crowded 230 on the surface. Will you be looking at the internal fittings or out the window (unless in the loo) ?. I know which I would go for. I envy you, for me Cardiff is where the grass is greener looking from here in Croydon South London, but I have not yet lept over.

 

[Cowley]

Without wanting to go off at too much of a tangent, where do they discharge the toilet tanks on the 230s? I'm guessing they're not setup to do this at Birkenhead North.

To be fair that’s more on topic than a lot of what’s being said.

Let’s try and keep things polite and relevant from here on please.

 

[Chris125]

You will see that he's talking about Vivarail units in general, not the TfW ones in particular. Presumably he lives either on the Isle of Wight...

Bingo.

I won’t argue with you if you think they feel like new trains.

I wasn't expecting you to tbh, it's what ordinary passengers think that ultimately matters.

 

[DLAYKEGER]

Back to the roll out, keeping near to timetable seems based on the experience of the driver with 230s, from what I have read.

Does anybody know on a typical day is it a newish driver to a 230 at the start of the say as it seems we see bigger delays in morning, then later services they keep roughly to the hour long journey time. Is this due to the learning curve with quick improvement, or are more experienced drivers in place later in day.

Its good to see some catch up on sections without stations, but then why does the delay between Neston to Heswall go up by a minute or two. Is this down to the short platform at Heswall and driver being more careful. I note even the 150s seemed to come in slowly, and they had more platform room.
I assume they don't have selective door opening in case it slightly overuns the platforn

Also with regard to the 230 running on non passenger runs. Are thrse actually stopping at stations or are these for driver just on runs to get used to the controls

 

[Zontar]

Back to the roll out, keeping near to timetable seems based on the experience of the driver with 230s, from what I have read.

Does anybody know on a typical day is it a newish driver to a 230 at the start of the say as it seems we see bigger delays in morning, then later services they keep roughly to the hour long journey time. Is this due to the learning curve with quick improvement, or are more experienced drivers in place later in day.

Its good to see some catch up on sections without stations, but then why does the delay between Neston to Heswall go up by a minute or two. Is this down to the short platform at Heswall and driver being more careful. I note even the 150s seemed to come in slowly, and they had more platform room.
I assume they don't have selective door opening in case it slightly overuns the platforn

Also with regard to the 230 running on non passenger runs. Are thrse actually stopping at stations or are these for driver just on runs to get used to the controls

Haha I doubt rostering has the luxury to be able to select more experienced drivers for a morning slot, from what I've read your lucky to get a driver as loads still need training!

 

[CaergwrleKen]

Normal timetable should be back tomorrow at last with a 150

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Normal timetable should be back tomorrow at last with a 150

150 235 and 230 009 performing the honours today, and no RRBs.
Everything running close to time so far.

 

[Foxcover]

Have just been on a short trip (Heswall-Bidston return) to try out the 230 for the first time - can confirm that they look, sound and feel brand new, they’re fast off the mark and really hope the TfW/Merseyrail/Merseytravel can keep the momentum going on this line. Can definitely appreciate why trains are slow coming into Heswall - there are literally inches to spare!

The mid-morning train I caught emptied around 60 people at Bidston, which shows some of the demand on the route even after weeks of the infamous bus replacements.

 

[D821]

Have just been on a short trip (Heswall-Bidston return) to try out the 230 for the first time - can confirm that they look, sound and feel brand new, they’re fast off the mark and really hope the TfW/Merseyrail/Merseytravel can keep the momentum going on this line. Can definitely appreciate why trains are slow coming into Heswall - there are literally inches to spare!

The mid-morning train I caught emptied around 60 people at Bidston, which shows some of the demand on the route even after weeks of the infamous bus replacements.

It's good to hear the numbers are recovering, though I do wonder how many of those 60 were forum members out to try a ride on them

 

[Foxcover]

Ha, yes i know what you mean! to be fair though, very few cameras and notebooks other than mine, this was mainly families and teen groups presumably off to Liverpool

 

[Bikeman78]

Personally, I couldn't care less if they're ex-D stock or not.

From my observations, a lot of the public couldn't care less about the age or appearance of the train so long as it turns up on time and completes its journey without incident. For example, when C2C (or LTS as it was at the time) hired in two newly refurbished class 312 units, several people thought they were the brand new trains that were supposed to be being delivered at the time. Another example, the EPB farewell tour in 1995, several people at Redhill walked up to it and asked "is this the Victoria train." It was in all over Southern green livery!

 

[pokemonsuper9]

a lot of the public couldn't care less about the age or appearance of the train so long as it turns up on time and completes its journey without incident

I feel like comfort is a factor, not a massively important one compared to those two (which many would agree are some of the most important), but still a factor.

 

[Meerkat]

From my observations, a lot of the public couldn't care less about the age or appearance of the train so long as it turns up on time and completes its journey without incident. For example, when C2C (or LTS as it was at the time) hired in two newly refurbished class 312 units, several people thought they were the brand new trains that were supposed to be being delivered at the time. Another example, the EPB farewell tour in 1995, several people at Redhill walked up to it and asked "is this the Victoria train." It was in all over Southern green livery!

Those are commuter services. Less likely that a nice comfortable car is a viable alternative

 

[317 forever]

Have just been on a short trip (Heswall-Bidston return) to try out the 230 for the first time - can confirm that they look, sound and feel brand new, they’re fast off the mark and really hope the TfW/Merseyrail/Merseytravel can keep the momentum going on this line. Can definitely appreciate why trains are slow coming into Heswall - there are literally inches to spare!

The mid-morning train I caught emptied around 60 people at Bidston, which shows some of the demand on the route even after weeks of the infamous bus replacements.

I'm surprised it was out today. I thought they were only out Mon-Fri and not weekends, although Bank Holidays have different implications for rail operations. Some work like a Saturday but others a modified Mon-Fri service.

Although I am in Liverpool for the day on Saturday 13th, I am currently not expecting the 230s to be out then.

 

[Foxcover]

I'm surprised it was out today. I thought they were only out Mon-Fri and not weekends, although Bank Holidays have different implications for rail operations. Some work like a Saturday but others a modified Mon-Fri service.

Although I am in Liverpool for the day on Saturday 13th, I am currently not expecting the 230s to be out then.

Definitely worth checking on the day - I wasn’t expecting one to be out today at all and just saw it on the diagram on RTT early on.

 

[317 forever]

Definitely worth checking on the day - I wasn’t expecting one to be out today at all and just saw it on the diagram on RTT early on.

Will details be on the TfW or Realtimes (?) website say at 7am that morning?

I prefer only to venture that way if I am as good as guaranteed to ride a 230.

 

[Foxcover]

I’d expect so as the first trains are out by then - the only issue then is if one fails and where - I’ve heard some 230s are better behaved than others!

 

[6Gtraincrew]

Will details be on the TfW or Realtimes (?) website say at 7am that morning?

I prefer only to venture that way if I am as good as guaranteed to ride a 230.

The issue is that most days the allocation doesn't show until the until the train has left Wrexham Central at 7:30ish.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

The issue is that most days the allocation doesn't show until the until the train has left Wrexham Central at 7:30ish.

That's interesting, some allocations show up as early as midnight for some services (I've seen some Avanti ones early)

That's a shame with the 230s though, at least they'll show up eventually.

Tomorrow's sprinter is already on there.

Realtime Trains | Departures from Bidston Dee Jn all day on 02/05/2023

Train information at Bidston Dee Jn all day on 02/05/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That sprinter looks like it'll be spending it's night in Wrexham Central?

 

[Krokodil]

From my observations, a lot of the public couldn't care less about the age or appearance of the train so long as it turns up on time and completes its journey without incident. For example, when C2C (or LTS as it was at the time) hired in two newly refurbished class 312 units, several people thought they were the brand new trains that were supposed to be being delivered at the time. Another example, the EPB farewell tour in 1995, several people at Redhill walked up to it and asked "is this the Victoria train." It was in all over Southern green livery!

Someone was whinging to the TV cameras about Northern having "old trains". They were sat on a brand new 195 at the time.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Someone was whinging to the TV cameras about Northern having "old trains". They were sat on a brand new 195 at the time.

The 14X and 15Xs were member's of Northern's fleet as the 195s were rolling out, so Northern did (And still do) certainly have some old trains, they may have been instead complaining about them (unless they were actually talking directly about the train they were on)

 

[Krokodil]

The 14X and 15Xs were member's of Northern's fleet as the 195s were rolling out, so Northern did (And still do) certainly have some old trains, they may have been instead complaining about them (unless they were actually talking directly about the train they were on)

It was a while ago so my memory is hazy but they appeared to be including the 195 in their comments. They certainly weren't saying "this one is better though"

 

[The exile]

Another example, the EPB farewell tour in 1995, several people at Redhill walked up to it and asked "is this the Victoria train." It was in all over Southern green livery!

well, half of it was (and had been running in service like that for a while - though admittedly probably never at Redhill.

 

[Dan G]

How are the 230s doing this week?