Class 304 EMUs

[6Gman]

The once-a-day 304 to Preston always looked out of place going through Wigan too. I think I read somewhere that this EMU was provided as something of a staff train when some BR jobs based at Crewe were relocated to Preston - maybe to placate union objections.

In the 1975 timetable this ran as 1P82 09:17 from Crewe, calling at Hartford, Warrington & Wigan, arriving Preston at 10:10
Return was 1K82 15:00 from Preston, stopping Wigan and Warrington only, arriving Crewe at 15:54.
I wonder if the Crewe crew were booked to spend the day playing cards and drinking tea in the Preston mess room in true 1970s style? Maybe one of those turns for the old hands just about to retire?

I doubt it was any sort of staff train. Even in the 70s a working day from 1015 to 1450 would have been too generous!

There was a staff train the other way round - Preston to Crewe in the morning and back around 1700. Normally a 2car Cravens unit - a type otherwise pretty rare in Crewe. Always seemed to be worked by a grizzled Prestonian driver still in his L&Y uniform.

And, yes, I think it's quite possible that it was a cushy Crewe turn on 1P82/1K82. Less than two hours of driving; PNB of nearly five hours! (Though it might have balanced with a Preston - Crewe PNB Crewe - Preston slice of work.)

 

[Taunton]

Rugby was a sort of divide for the emus, 304s to the north and 310s to the south. You even noticed it in what was in the north end and south end bays at Rugby. The Euston-Northampton-Birmingham 310 hourly semi-fasts were the only ones for a long time to break this barrier. Possibly connected with which depots signed what.

 

[87015]

Rugby was a sort of divide for the emus, 304s to the north and 310s to the south. You even noticed it in what was in the north end and south end bays at Rugby. The Euston-Northampton-Birmingham 310 hourly semi-fasts were the only ones for a long time to break this barrier. Possibly connected with which depots signed what.

304s were regular into Euston in the 70s and had booked work on an early Northampton-New St at the very end too. 310s were booked to Preston at times too so it all got around, plus whatever happened in disruption to get the job done. I had a 304 to Bletchley in '90 during a riot, they were very rare south of Northampton by then.

 

[AY1975]

The 304s were never refurbished as such - they just had their seats re-trimmed as necessary at overhaul. The only exceptions were the non-corridor MBS vehicles in 304001-015 which were opened out to make them MBSOs, at which time new seats were fitted.

One thing I can’t remember is if the 4 sets repainted into Regional Railways livery had their seats re-trimmed? If they did I would guess in either RR style or even with the NSE-type blue?

Yes, and the former non-corridor MBS vehicles in 304001-015 were then fitted with the same style of seats and moquette as on the refurbished 302s, 305s, 307s and 308s (and the 317s in as-built condition): same as in the 307 interior above.

I never travelled on the RR-liveried 304s, but I remember seeing them and I think they had NSE-type blue moquette.

 

[6Gman]

Rugby was a sort of divide for the emus, 304s to the north and 310s to the south. You even noticed it in what was in the north end and south end bays at Rugby. The Euston-Northampton-Birmingham 310 hourly semi-fasts were the only ones for a long time to break this barrier. Possibly connected with which depots signed what.

I think it was a little subtler than that. I seem to recall that the Birmingham - Stoke - Manchester service was a 310 more often than not. And the Walsall route was a bit of a mix.

I think you're right about a lot of it being to do with traction knowledge - when my father was a driver at Crewe (1966-77) he certainly signed 304s but not sure he signed 310s.

 

[AndrewE]

I always thought 304s needed the deep cushions because of the "rather bouncy" ride from their Gresley-type bogies!

A friend says that when he went to work at Longsight (in a senior role) he found the staff busy oiling the leaf springs - and put a stop to it straight away, as the friction between the leaves should provide the integral damping mechanism. However the damage was already done...

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Strange one, but these sort of idiosyncratic workings did seem more common in the old days and what helped make the railways of the time more interesting. Could that have been a connection off a London service at Crewe in an hour when there was no through service, to maintain an hourly (by connection) London to Warrington link?

It was due to the Euston services being diverted and missing out Warrington completely. At the time the diversion was of much more interest but looking back I am a little sorry that I didn't ride such an unusual 304 working.

Was that not in the period when some of the trains ran through to Cov and therefore somewhat had to be a DMU?!

A more detailed check of my records shows that you are 100% correct! When I first got to that area I was genuinely surprised that Nuneaton-Coventry wasn't wired as part of the original WCML scheme. Even now it remains as a gap which seems unlikely to be filled any time soon.

 

[Taunton]

The original WCML scheme wired great quantities of sidings and short spurs, which can have hardly ever have seen an electric unit (such as every road in Basford Hall yard, Crewe), but then missed out actual short links which would have been useful, such as Crewe-Kidsgrove, or Nuneaton-Coventry.

Regarding 310s straying north, I recall making just one journey on Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham in 1980, and it being a 310. Did anyone else ever see one at Altrincham?

 

[nw1]

Can't remember 310s at Altrincham, though I do remember some of the Saturdays only Stafford-Birmingham stoppers in 1984 were 310s. At the time the stopper split at Stafford, it was either Stafford Birmingham or Stafford Manchester. The latter - every 2 hours but hourly in the peak - seemed to be solid 304. They tended to share Platform 6.

I'm sure I also remember seeing a 303 at Stafford around 1984 - is there any plausible explanation for this, or is it just a false memory?

I do remember the Ian Allan books at the time describing both 304s and 310s as "London, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool EMUs" suggesting that both covered the whole area even if the former had a north bias and the latter a south bias.

 

[Springs Branch]

......... Regarding 310s straying north, I recall making just one journey on Manchester Oxford Road to Altrincham in 1980, and it being a 310. Did anyone else ever see one at Altrincham?

There is this photo dated 1975 of a 310 at Altrincham on the Geograph website
2H54 was the headcode for Alderley Edge via Stockport, so looks like the unit may have been "captured" from a Birmingham - Piccadilly service.

Photo (c) Richard Sutcliffe shared under cc-by-sa/2.0

 

[eastwestdivide]

...I'm sure I also remember seeing a 303 at Stafford around 1984 - is there any plausible explanation for this, or is it just a false memory?...

Yes, there were some 303s that moved south around then - I've a picture of one at Stafford, and another at Stockport.

...I do remember the Ian Allan books at the time describing both 304s and 310s as "London, Birmingham, Manchester and Liverpool EMUs" suggesting that both covered the whole area even if the former had a north bias and the latter a south bias.

And yes, early 80s, rare to see a 304 much south of Rugby.

 

[DaiGog]

I remember the 304s quite fondly now, although they weren't my favourite things to travel on at the time. The rough ride was quite wearing after a while on one, although the ride was part of their character, with the big bouncy seats. The seats were always full of dust, such that if you clouted it with your hand, a cloud of dust would rise up.

I used to catch them mainly between Manchester and Crewe, returning home to North Wales after days out in Greater Manchester or West Yorkshire, in the late 80s / early 90s. I would usually take a 304 on the Crewe stopper in preference to the direct Chester service, which was predominantly 150s, despite the additional journey time involved. And the chippy at Crewe was better than the one in Chester

When I went to Aston uni from 1993, they were still just about hanging on in the West Midlands, on Cross-City and other local services just before the 323s took over. The occasional one would also drop on the Liverpool - Birmingham service once it ceased to be operated by InterCity Cross Country, although 310s (and subsequently 323s) were the mainstay of these.

 

[eastwestdivide]

Couple of pics from 1983 showing:

1. a 304 on the Trent Valley stopper at Atherstone, with an 85 (I think) passing on the fast


2. the 303 at Stafford I mentioned 2 posts above

 

[Cowley]

Great photos Eastwest.

 

[theblackwatch]

I can't remember 310s being at Manchester normally, although the post by Springs Branch at #40 shows one clearly reached Altrincham! One occasion when I do remember a 310 at Manchester was in around March 1996 when I turned up to find a 310/1 on a Hadfield and Glossop service. It turned out it was a trial run with a view to them taking over on the route. I kick myself that I got off part way down the branch!

 

[The_Engineer]

I can't remember 310s being at Manchester normally, although the post by Springs Branch at #40 shows one clearly reached Altrincham! One occasion when I do remember a 310 at Manchester was in around March 1996 when I turned up to find a 310/1 on a Hadfield and Glossop service. It turned out it was a trial run with a view to them taking over on the route. I kick myself that I got off part way down the branch!

310s had a regular service into Piccadilly in the late 60s and early 70s, on the 2-hourly semi-fasts from Birmingham via Congleton.

 

[theblackwatch]

310s had a regular service into Piccadilly in the late 60s and early 70s, on the 2-hourly semi-fasts from Birmingham via Congleton.

Thanks, that explains why I can''t remember them....before my time.

 

[Helvellyn]

It's probably lucky that the 310s came along as a Mark 2 based design. I guess they could quite easily have been a fourth batch of 304s given the way Mark 1 based EMU designs continued to be built. The fact that they were numbered 046-095 (as AM10s) to follows on from 001-045 (the AM4s) shows that the London Midland Region possibly saw some sort of commonality between them?

 

[117305]

I'm sure a 304 even reached Carlisle on a service train during some service disruption in the 1980's.

According to traction issue 241- it was 304028 on a 21.23 crewe-carlise relief on January 25th 1990, she then worked back to Birmingham relief in the early hours of January 26th 1990(and no I was not on it!)

 

[Mag_seven]

According to traction issue 241- it was 304028 on a 21.23 crewe-carlise relief on January 25th 1990, she then worked back to Birmingham relief in the early hours of January 26th 1990(and no I was not on it!)

Would have been great to experience the run up Shap on that.

 

[satisnek]

Best 304 experience for me was an early morning service from Crewe to Wolverhampton/Birmingham(?) probably in the late 1980s and probably a connection off an overnight from Scotland. Boy that was exhilarating! As you nonchalantly sip your coffee at 100mph or more, riding on the fruits of work carried out at Derby RTC in the 1960s, it's easy to forget what rail travel used to be like...

 

[Springs Branch]

310s had a regular service into Piccadilly in the late 60s and early 70s, on the 2-hourly semi-fasts from Birmingham via Congleton.

The Class 310s could be seen regularly, but not necessarily frequently in Manchester as it seemed sometimes a 304 would be allocated to these trains, sometimes a 310.

I recall the 310s always looked spiffy and modern whilst sitting on layover at Piccadilly. Their Mk2 curvy elegance and BR Design Panel cab fronts eclipsed the more utilitarian and dowdy 304s which were native to the area.

I particularly liked the classy chrome window surrounds which the 310s had in the original Rail Blue livery. And didn't they have orange curtains in First Class, in true 1970s Inter-City style?

On the subject of rare units turning up, when BR introduced Class 312s in the mid-1970s, the majority went to the Eastern Region, but four sets went to the LMR to enhance local services in the West Midlands.

At the time I was always on the lookout for one of the new 312s in Manchester, but never saw one. Does anyone know if a West Midlands 312 ever made it that far north?

 

[AndrewE]

As you nonchalantly sip your coffee at 100mph or more, riding on the fruits of work carried out at Derby RTC in the 1960s, it's easy to forget what rail travel used to be like...

I didn't know that there was any RTC involvement in the development of the 304s. Wikipedia says the units were built at Wolverton and that the Design Panel suggested the sloping/semi streamlined top half of the cab front, but I have always imagined that they (the DP) were London-based.
Maybe something to do with the traction package?

 

[Taunton]

I didn't know that there was any RTC involvement in the development of the 304s.

I think this is actually a reference to modern day stock, in contrast to the 304s.

Notably, very similar units, off the same production line at the same time, also including Gresley bogies, were employed at equal or higher speeds on the GEML without nearly as much comment on being able to hit the ceiling from a seated position when traversing diamond crossings. And it wasn't as if WCML track was poorly maintained. Was there some specific aspect of the 304s? Did the LMR specify different seat materials to the ER?

 

[AndrewE]

I think this is actually a reference to modern day stock, in contrast to the 304s.

Notably, very similar units, off the same production line at the same time, also including Gresley bogies, were employed at equal or higher speeds on the GEML without nearly as much comment on being able to hit the ceiling from a seated position when traversing diamond crossings. And it wasn't as if WCML track was poorly maintained. Was there some specific aspect of the 304s? Did the LMR specify different seat materials to the ER?

See my post 36:

A friend says that when he went to work at Longsight (in a senior role) he found the staff busy oiling the leaf springs - and put a stop to it straight away, as the friction between the leaves should provide an integral damping mechanism. However the damage was already done..

 

[Edgeley]

Circa 1970 my recollection is that Macclesfield line services were usually operated by 310s.

 

[Cowley]

Would have been great to experience the run up Shap on that.

Plenty of bouncing

See my post 36:

I read that yesterday and found it very interesting. It’d never occurred to me that friction caused by dirty/rusty leaves on the suspension would help stiffen the ride up.
When I thought about it though I was reminded of working on HGVs 25+ years ago as a young lad, and some mechanics would oil the springs during a service while some would tell you not to.
Is this a possible reason for a more bouncy ride then? It would be quite amusing if it was.

 

[AndrewE]

Is this a possible reason for a more bouncy ride then? It would be quite amusing if it was.

Well that's what the depot engineer told me. And the mill scale on "forged" springs may well prevent rusting to some extent, especially if they are painted up and in a relatively salt-free environment. I have a feeling that the leaf springs for horse-drawn carriages were sewn into a leather sleeve, maybe for this very reason?

 

[crosscity]

Didn't realise they were still going as late as 1996 (I thought they went perhaps 1989/90 or so) and certainly not on the Cross-City line: I thought this went straight from DMUs to 323s.

After the string had been energised a few 310's and 304's intermingled with the dmu's. The first day of the all electric service was of note. In the evening peak a unit was scheduled to run ecs to Longbridge via the fast line from Kings Norton. Alright for a dmu, but the 310 ran out of wire and juice and the pantograph hit the road bridge and station footbridge before before the train came to a stop! I saw this happen as I'd just got off the stopper a couple of minutes before.

For a time the Crosscity line also had a number of 308's before the 323's arrived. These were from the LTS* line and went to Leeds after their West Midlands service. The 304's were much more fun with their bouncy seats and real lightbulbs.

* LTS=London, Tilbury and Southend

 

[RochdalePioneers]

I used to adore 304s. I would bounce from Stockport to Crewe on a Saturday to hang around on the end of platform 1, then bounce back again. The underfloor compressor would whup whup whup its way into live and shake the whole coach, then knock off and into silence.

But not just to Crewe! There used to be a Manchester Piccadilly - Stoke stopper which then formed a Stoke - Walsall stopper via Birmingham, so on a single unit I could ride all the way to Bescot. I also remember riding one on a Stafford - Rugby stopper. Fun times...