Class 308 with luggage van

[Bringback309s]

I've just found these pictures of a class 308 with an unusual motor car:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...otos-ongoing-more-added-13th-november/page-31

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/in...outhport-ex-lms-compartment-emu-baggage-cars/

The articles talk about them being former Southport luggage cars but they look like standard Mk1's modified with pantograph's etc. In all the years of using the LTS and the Victoria line I don't remember these. With the door arrangement I assume they were seated... and how long were they around for? When they were withdrawn what was used for an alternative motor car or was the whole unit withdrawn? Any info on these would be appreciated
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Sorry a bit hastily written this - I've found some information out, originally built as MLV's for Tilbury Riverside services they were then converted later on. Does anyone have any information about the interior configuration?

 

[Ash Bridge]

Don't know if this helps but according to my 1985 Ian Allan ABC there were three class 308/2 units in service with non- driving (MLV's) numbered 68012/68017/68018, they weighed 52 Tonnes, powered by four EE 192hp (140kw) traction motors, no mention of how many seats or configuration though.

 

[30907]

It looks like alternate bays with and without doors, like a 310/312, so standard 3+2 seating would be the most likely IMO. Nothing exotic!

 

[Alfie1014]

There were 9 308/2s (313-21) delivered for the LTS electrification in 1962 they were intended for parcels, newspaper traffic and as mentioned boat trains to Tilbury Riverside, which replaced the former loco hauled boat trains from St Pancras. The interior of the MLV was open with newspaper/mail sorting tables fixed to the coach sides. However Tilbury's days as a liner port were dwindling by the 1960s and the nine units were deemed to be too many for traffic levels, so in the mid 1970s it was decided to convert 4 of the MLVs to passneger accommodation (313-6). The remaining sets (317-21) worked three dedicated diagrams and were used in the final days before newspaper traffic finished in the 1980s, including a pair on the 03:59 Liverpool St to Shoeburyness and one unit working the 04:10 Liverpool St to Tilbury Riverside passenger/newspaper services. In the 1970s and 80s a pair regularily worked the 17:26 SX Fenchurch St to Tilbury Riverside service which with only 6 passenger coaches was one of the lighter loaded peak trains at the time. If sets were used on the busier trains or especially at times of disruption when passengers would sit/stand anywhere (including in guards brakes) it wasn't un-heard of for passenger to sit on the tables and stand elsewhere in the vehicle, the only problem being not designed for passengers there wasn't much for them to hold on to. Something no doubt that wasn't really allowed and would give Health & Safety today palpitations!

BREL Woverton works undertook the conversions of the MLVs to MBS in 313-6, however there was a strike at the window suppliers (Beclawat?) at the time which meant the tradional BR GE type windows weren't available. There were surplus assorted windows from 4-CIG/BIG units (still under construction at that time). So these were used giving a more mainline look to the re-built motor coaches and at the time were unique for the BR GE/LTS outer suburban types in that they had some seating bays without doors. At the opposite end to the brake van was an area with longditudinal seating with small (BIG buffet) type windows. The seating was bench type similar to that in class 310s and 312s. Growing up on the LTS at this time I'd always make a beeline for these vehicles as they had a more mainline feel to them, with the bays without doors more comfortable in the winter and they also avoided having your feet trodden on when passengers got on and off.

None of the sets were included in the 1980s full refurbishment programme so all remained non-gangwayed throughout their careers. In the mid 1980s 317-321 were reduced to 3 cars renumbered to 308991-5 with the DTS vehicle having its seats removed and convered for parcels use.

 

[Helvellyn]

9 units were built for the LTS services, (308)313-(308)321. The unit numbers followed on from the 302 fleet, (302)201-(302)312. They were formed BDTSOL-MLV-TCsoL-DTS. As has been pointed out, some had their MLV cars converted to MBSOs but they weren't refurbished like the rest of the 308 fleet.

In case anyone wonders, the remaining four-car 308 fleet were built as (308)133-(308)165 forn GE line services, with the unit numbers following from from the 302 fleet, (302)101-(302)132. There were also three three-car units designed to supplement the three-car 305 fleet, these being (308)453-(308)455 that followed on from (305)401-(305)452.

A further thing was that the BDTSOL, TCsoL and DTS vehicles of the LTS units were built under the same lot numbers as the vehicles in (308)142-(308)165 and followed on numercially, i.e.

308165 75919+61915+70643+75952
308313 75920+68011+70644+75953

Interestingly, the numbers 61916-61924 were never used for motor vehicles. Not sure if it 313-321 were originally planned to be 166-174 and at some point the order for the last nine units was amended the the MBS vehicle order was replaced by that for the MLVs (MBS built under Lot No. 30657; MLV built under Lot No. 30701).

 

[yorksrob]

BREL Woverton works undertook the conversions of the MLVs to MBS in 313-6, however there was a strike at the window suppliers (Beclawat?) at the time which meant the tradional BR GE type windows weren't available. There were surplus assorted windows from 4-CIG/BIG units (still under construction at that time). So these were used giving a more mainline look to the re-built motor coaches and at the time were unique for the BR GE/LTS outer suburban types in that they had some seating bays without doors. At the opposite end to the brake van was an area with longditudinal seating with small (BIG buffet) type windows. The seating was bench type similar to that in class 310s and 312s. Growing up on the LTS at this time I'd always make a beeline for these vehicles as they had a more mainline feel to them, with the bays without doors more comfortable in the winter and they also avoided having your feet trodden on when passengers got on and off.

None of the sets were included in the 1980s full refurbishment programme so all remained non-gangwayed throughout their careers. In the mid 1980s 317-321 were reduced to 3 cars renumbered to 308991-5 with the DTS vehicle having its seats removed and convered for parcels use.

Having only been fortunate enough to experience the 308's during their Yorkshire retirement, this is all quite fascinating.

Reminds me a little of when the VEP's were refurbed in the 80's and gained seating bays without doors for the first time (in place of part of the luggage van).

 

[theblackwatch]

Very interesting stuff there, big thanks to Alfie1014 and Helvellyn - I knew the parcels 308s existed, but being 'up north' had little knowledge of any background (ie what they did and conversion to passenger vehicles). The converted cars certainly look a bit incongruous with those windows!

 

[4-COR 3142]

There are two photographs of these MLV's in John Glover's 'Eastern Electric' book. they were both taken in May 1980, one is an external view, the other from the inside which shows the most basic 3+2 seating - although they do look more comfortable than anything Siemens or Bombardier produce in the 21st century! - there are no luggage racks or headrests at all.

I'll scan a copy for 'bringback309's' and pm it across.
If its OK to put the scan on the forum I'll do that later today - never certain if it's 'allowed' or if there's copyright issues?

 

[3141]

There are two photographs of these MLV's in John Glover's 'Eastern Electric' book. they were both taken in May 1980, one is an external view, the other from the inside which shows the most basic 3+2 seating - although they do look more comfortable than anything Siemens or Bombardier produce in the 21st century! - there are no luggage racks or headrests at all.

I'll scan a copy for 'bringback309's' and pm it across.
If its OK to put the scan on the forum I'll do that later today - never certain if it's 'allowed' or if there's copyright issues?

I'm old enough to have travelled on a 308 with a parcels van, though not in the van itself. It seemed very sensible to have made provision for the luggage of people going to Tilbury to join a liner, but as stated earlier the need for this was declining even as the stock came into service.

 

[Bringback309s]

Thanks for the great info guys and to 4-COR 3142 for your pics

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's a shame these 308 luggage vans didn't survive to be sent North. Would've been a handy "drunk tank" for the last Skipton train on a Saturday night!