Class 317/7s

[SprinterMan]

Does anyone know what is happening with these units at the moment? I have heard that FCC will get 4 of the stored units to cover for Class 365 units going away for refurbishment. Greater Anglia have taken on 317709 and 317719 to use in their general 317 pool and will get 317722 once problems with the AC traction have been overcome. This still leaves 2 units. Does anyone have any other news, or know which units FCC will get?

Adam

 

[badassunicorn]

I don't think FCC are getting any. They are currently being repainted at Bombardiers in GA white/red doors. 722 should be in service in the very near future I reckon, can't be much longer!

 

[Tom C]

Two new diagrams starting from the new timetable should start using 317/7's however the two units have not arrived at Hornsey. They will be working a short diagram from Peterborough to London and return in the afternoon. The plan is for them to stay together although I cannot see a reason why they could not mix with the 317/1's if the need arised.

 

[badassunicorn]

oh, interesting =) The 700's are at Ilford, and I've not seen any in FCC/thameslink paint job, only old NX stripes or white/red

 

[SPADTrap]

I've just seen one of the 317/7s at Chingford!

 

[CockneySparrow]

Two new diagrams starting from the new timetable should start using 317/7's however the two units have not arrived at Hornsey. They will be working a short diagram from Peterborough to London and return in the afternoon. The plan is for them to stay together although I cannot see a reason why they could not mix with the 317/1's if the need arised.

Doesn't make sense to split them if they are only having them for a short period of time, if they was to split and connect to a 317/1 and the time come for them to go back FCC will need to get 2 sets back rather than 1

FCC dont tend to drive trains direct to Hornsey when they need them back they like put them on diagrams where the train ends up back at the depot on a current set of diagrams

Remember a while back at Lynn one Sunday there was a 365 sitting in long usual platform all day but they were directing people to top of the station all day for departures from the short platform, asked why they was doing this and was told that the locked train needed work doing to it and it would run a certain diagram first thing on the Monday to KX and it was guaranteed to get back to Hornsey on the next diagram, hope this makes sense

 

[A-driver]

FCC dont tend to drive trains direct to Hornsey when they need them back they like put them on diagrams where the train ends up back at the depot on a current set of diagrams

Really? Since when and can you prove that as I'd strongly disagree! Try being booked to shunt a yard and you are pretty much purely switching units if Hornsey need one back and the spare men (especially on Sundays) spend a lot of time taking sets of empties from various yards around the GN route into Hornsey and swapping them with another set out of Hornsey. They only swap diagrams if it's a non urgent fault that they want to deal with before the trains next booked visit but that is common practice at most TOCs.

Also, just so you are aware, the poster you quoted most certainly knows what he is talking about as he deals with exactly this kind of thing every day at work so has most probably been officially briefed in the 317/7 introduction.

 

[Aictos]

Really? Since when and can you prove that as I'd strongly disagree! Try being booked to shunt a yard and you are pretty much purely switching units if Hornsey need one back and the spare men (especially on Sundays) spend a lot of time taking sets of empties from various yards around the GN route into Hornsey and swapping them with another set out of Hornsey. They only swap diagrams if it's a non urgent fault that they want to deal with before the trains next booked visit but that is common practice at most TOCs.

Also, just so you are aware, the poster you quoted most certainly knows what he is talking about as he deals with exactly this kind of thing every day at work so has most probably been officially briefed in the 317/7 introduction.

Indeed, I've seen the workings and from what I understand they do a Peterborough to Kings Cross then ECS to Letchworth before working a Letchworth to Kings Cross then ECS to Hornsey before ECS in the afternoon to Kings Cross then doing Kings Cross to Peterborough to Kings Cross to Peterborough before being stabled on the Nene Sidings.

All the above are formed of a pair of 317/7s and as far as I am aware are meant to start with the May timetable, however I'm not sure when Hornsey will have them delivered this week maybe A-Driver or Tom C would know???

 

[A-driver]

Indeed, I've seen the workings and from what I understand they do a Peterborough to Kings Cross then ECS to Letchworth before working a Letchworth to Kings Cross then ECS to Hornsey before ECS in the afternoon to Kings Cross then doing Kings Cross to Peterborough to Kings Cross to Peterborough before being stabled on the Nene Sidings.



All the above are formed of a pair of 317/7s and as far as I am aware are meant to start with the May timetable, however I'm not sure when Hornsey will have them delivered this week maybe A-Driver or Tom C would know???

All I have heard so far is that they are currently delayed as they are in a bit of a state. Once they arrive there will need to be some kind of driver training (a handout) as they are slightly different to the current 317s from a drivers POV. Nothing has been sent out yet so I don't know if that means they are delayed long term as the new diagrams come in on Sunday.

 

[Tom C]

Doesn't make sense to split them if they are only having them for a short period of time, if they was to split and connect to a 317/1 and the time come for them to go back FCC will need to get 2 sets back rather than 1

Sorry I don't follow?

They are not being introduced for a couple of days, they are planned to run throughout the next timetable and it doesn't take 6 months to get a unit back to Peterborough or Hornsey.

FCC dont tend to drive trains direct to Hornsey when they need them back they like put them on diagrams where the train ends up back at the depot on a current set of diagrams

Really? The 12 additional moves on Sunday were obviously my imagination.

Of course, where possible units will be moved to and from Hornsey in a diagram cycle but where this is not possible, the units will be moved as ECS from its stabling point and this happens on a regular basis.

Remember a while back at Lynn one Sunday there was a 365 sitting in long usual platform all day but they were directing people to top of the station all day for departures from the short platform, asked why they was doing this and was told that the locked train needed work doing to it and it would run a certain diagram first thing on the Monday to KX and it was guaranteed to get back to Hornsey on the next diagram, hope this makes sense

Yes it does make sense. An amended diagram was put into the last timetable which allows a unit starting at Kings Lynn on a Sunday to finish at Hornsey which previously didn't exist. So a unit which required exam, wheel lathe, modifications or any other work will be allocated into that diagram. Prior to that, units would have to be swopped mid run from Kings Lynn.

All I have heard so far is that they are currently delayed as they are in a bit of a state.

They are in a dreadful state and I doubt they are going to be ready any time soon. In the meantime, 321's or 365's will be used to cover.

 

[Skimble19]

Tom, is it internally/externally or mechanically that they're in a state? Interested as I haven't heard anything specific about the units, only that they were due to arrive for the TT change.

 

[Tom C]

Tom, is it internally/externally or mechanically that they're in a state? Interested as I haven't heard anything specific about the units, only that they were due to arrive for the TT change.

I understand they are pretty "interesting" internally which is understandable after standing at Eastleigh for so long and some more work is needed before they can be handed over to Hornsey and driver training can begin.

 

[badassunicorn]

The inside is perfectly fine, somewhat better then GA's 317's with the same blue interior, they are just having minor repair work done as you say after having sat idle for a while. They all drive under their own steam etc.

 

[03_179]

Not sure of numbers but defo some 317s coming over in mid June to cover 365 refurbs.

 

[Skimble19]

Should be two units. Not sure if there's the potential for more if needed but I doubt it as GA appear to be starting to use them again now.

 

[jon0844]

Will AGA have perhaps been able to hire them at a good price, given the ROSCO must be pretty keen to get some money for them?

 

[SprinterMan]

I don't think FCC are getting any. They are currently being repainted at Bombardiers in GA white/red doors. 722 should be in service in the very near future I reckon, can't be much longer!

Ooh wow, which ones are being repainted into full GAA colours? Is it just 317722 or are others getting the new scheme? Any pictures would be very much appreciated.

Two new diagrams starting from the new timetable should start using 317/7's however the two units have not arrived at Hornsey. They will be working a short diagram from Peterborough to London and return in the afternoon. The plan is for them to stay together although I cannot see a reason why they could not mix with the 317/1's if the need arised.

Will these two diagrams be worked by single units or pairs of units? Could you please tell me what the diagrams are (only if management will allow, of course) so I can put them in the Frequently Requested Diagrams thread.

All I have heard so far is that they are currently delayed as they are in a bit of a state. Once they arrive there will need to be some kind of driver training (a handout) as they are slightly different to the current 317s from a drivers POV. Nothing has been sent out yet so I don't know if that means they are delayed long term as the new diagrams come in on Sunday.

Yeah, I have heard that the cold store in Eastleigh took it's toll on the units mechanically, quite a lot of rust and the like.

Will AGA have perhaps been able to hire them at a good price, given the ROSCO must be pretty keen to get some money for them?

From what I have heard, the price Angel Trains was charging before was extortionate, 3 times as much as a 317/5! That is why AGA washed their hands of them and use the former Ilford Christmas Trees (that NXEA were contractually obliged to rebuild) instead. Good to see everyone has come to their senses. This whole situation is very similar to what happened with the Class 180s.

Adam

 

[jopsuk]

presumably the units used by FCC wll be getting FCC logos and internal route map posters/safety instructions but little other branding?

 

[A-driver]

presumably the units used by FCC wll be getting FCC logos and internal route map posters/safety instructions but little other branding?

I doubt they will get much-only on short term loan and the franchise ends in September so they may not be used by "FCC" for very long at all. And the new TL trains and refurb 365s are in plain grey and white.

 

[SprinterMan]

Any updates?

Adam

 

[Aictos]

None that I'm aware of, am looking forward to seeing them back on the GN though - my only criticism is if they were known in advance to be working on the GN to cover the 365s going away for refurbishment then why were they as in the 317/7s not made available earlier to ensure they could go into passenger service from day one of the new timetable?

 

[SprinterMan]

None that I'm aware of, am looking forward to seeing them back on the GN though - my only criticism is if they were known in advance to be working on the GN to cover the 365s going away for refurbishment then why were they as in the 317/7s not made available earlier to ensure they could go into passenger service from day one of the new timetable?

Yeah, it's a real shame they haven't started in service today tbh.

Adam

 

[Tom C]

Any updates?

Adam

The two diagrams have been covered with 365's so far this week and there is no sign of the 317's yet.

 

[Aictos]

The two diagrams have been covered with 365's so far this week and there is no sign of the 317's yet.

Not usually a betting man but I reckon 14th September they be running in service

 

[91103eastcoast]

The two diagrams have been covered with 365's so far this week and there is no sign of the 317's yet.

Do you know what workings these two diagrams will entail?

 

[A-driver]

Do you know what workings these two diagrams will entail?

I believe it's a Peterbourgh, Letchworth and then a double Peterbourgh. All peak hours if it's the one I think it is.

 

[Aictos]

I believe it's a Peterbourgh, Letchworth and then a double Peterbourgh. All peak hours if it's the one I think it is.

Pretty much yeah, below are the booked workings:

First Capital Connect 317/7 Weekdays

5P41 04:55 Peterborough Nene Sidings to Peterborough

1P41 05:10 Peterborough to King's Cross

3R31 06:38 King's Cross to Letchworth Garden City

2R31 07:20 Letchworth Garden City to King's Cross

5E31 08:42 King's Cross to Hornsey EMUD

3P62 16:24 Hornsey EMUD to King's Cross

1P62 16:50 King's Cross to Peterborough

2P57 18:21 Peterborough to King's Cross

1P76 20:23 King's Cross to Peterborough

5P76 21:51 Peterborough to Peterborough Nene Sidings

 

[philjo]

We have been having 8-coach 365s on the 07:20 from Letchworth for the last couple of weeks - until then it had been 321s. it used to be 313s until 2-3 years ago when 6 cars was found to be a bit cosy by the time the train reached London & I think FCC needed to use the 313s for an additional Moorgate service.

 

[A-driver]

We have been having 8-coach 365s on the 07:20 from Letchworth for the last couple of weeks - until then it had been 321s. (it used to be 313s until 6 cars was found to be a bit cosy by the time the train reached London & I think FCC needed to use the 313s for an additional Moorgate service.

The diagram changed for the 0720 in may and also in December along with the stock. The 0720 used to be the start of a Hitchin job who passed to Letchworth to take it out of the yard as a double 321 at the start if it's day. Then it moved to kings x who ran it empty from kings x to Letchworth A/D and back in service. Now I believe that it's either Hitchin or Peterbourgh men who work it but it's part of the 0510 ex Peterbourgh diagram, this used to be 0510 Peterbourgh- kings x, empty to Royston and back to London but a number of the Royston and Letchworth morning peak trains have been completely re-diagrammed in may.