Class 317 withdrawals.

[Fen Enthusiast]

Having had their supposedly last run, what's to become of them now till the end of their lease? Are they going to be kept around to cover for 745's and 720's or what? I guess if they are going to run again before their lease ends, then they're counting on the failures or shortages of 745's and 720's. Could our record breaking heat on the horizon knock out any new units by any chance? Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the 317's were to get knocked out themselves in the heat if they were brought into service on the off chance.

 

[Techniquest]

Let's face it, when ASDA retire and replace their checkouts do they stage a farewell?

I can 100% assure you, no they don't! More often than that it's met with an 'about time!' kind of comment!

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Is there a link to the statement? The Wikipedia dragons will not tolerate a brief word from Richard Clinnick as a source for updating the 317 page

Unfortunately, the same over-pernickerty culprit as usual has a hold over the page still and refuses to update Greater Anglia and British Rail Class 317 as the many articles about their demise yesterday were published before the date of withdrawal. Drives me mad to see wrong information on there, so if anyone sees any recent articles published post-withdrawal it would be great if you let us know here

 

[boiledbeans2]

Having had their supposedly last run, what's to become of them now till the end of their lease? Are they going to be kept around to cover for 745's and 720's or what? I guess if they are going to run again before their lease ends, then they're counting on the failures or shortages of 745's and 720's. Could our record breaking heat on the horizon knock out any new units by any chance? Saying that, I wouldn't be surprised in the slightest if the 317's were to get knocked out themselves in the heat if they were brought into service on the off chance.

According to the GA link posted earlier, it says

Fans of Greater Anglia’s old Class 317 electric commuter trains can take a farewell journey on them on Saturday 16 July when they are due to carry out their last scheduled trips on the network.
[...]
The old Class 317 trains are now primarily used for cover and contingency, rather than on a planned basis, with the last due to be withdrawn from service by the end of July.

Opportunity for rail enthusiasts to say goodbye to old trains

www.greateranglia.co.uk

 

[prod_pep]

Unfortunately, the same over-pernickerty culprit as usual has a hold over the page still and refuses to update Greater Anglia and British Rail Class 317 as the many articles about their demise yesterday were published before the date of withdrawal. Drives me mad to see wrong information on there, so if anyone sees any recent articles published post-withdrawal it would be great if you let us know here

For what it's worth, they're right to overrule you. The 317s have run their final scheduled working, but there is an outside chance they will appear as emergency cover over the next week or so (I heard Stratford - Meridian Water/Bishop's Stortford mentioned as a possibility). If they don't work in service again before they're hauled away for scrap, then the page should be edited to show the 16th July as their last day.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

For what it's worth, they're right to overrule you. The 317s have run their final scheduled working, but there is an outside chance they will appear as emergency cover over the next week or so (I heard Stratford - Meridian Water/Bishop's Stortford mentioned as a possibility). If they don't work in service again before they're hauled away for scrap, then the page should be edited to show the 16th July as their last day.

Until one works again, they have stopped working. They didn't change 442s to say "19xx - to present" as soon as the transfer to SWR was announced, and that was when they'd been guaranteed to work again! In the unlikely event that the 317s were to return, there would be nothing to stop them editing the date.

 

[prod_pep]

Until one works again, they have stopped working. They didn't change 442s to say "19xx - to present" as soon as the transfer to SWR was announced, and that was when they'd been guaranteed to work again! In the unlikely event that the 317s were to return, there would be nothing to stop them editing the date.

That is not how it works. Only once withdrawal is confirmed is that date edited. As yet, it hasn't been.

 

[rdlover777]

An enjoyable evening riding the 317s for the last time. Everything seemed good-natured and harmless, although some of the 'normals' aboard the last runs weren't overly impressed. One thing, though: one of the first class seats in 508 was damaged; I hope that wasn't an enthusiast trying a bit of 'looting'.

343's motor coach is indeed a great sound, worthy of the title 'beastly'. I made sure that was my last 317 ride.

yeah, someone on twitter posted a pic if someone just carrying the seat along the platform

 

[Bikeman78]

Unless they got turned somewhere at some point?

317 508 was leading northbound on Monday when I had this pair.

I think they only place they can turn is the Stansted triangle. Anyway, 317343 is definitely the same way round that it's been for as long as I can remember.

 

[ScotRail158725]

People taking seat backs and other bits.

Its a pity there weren’t much normal drunk people around to remind the immature vandals of what they are

Really really bothers me how some rail enthusiasts are so selfish and disrespectful of railway property, let alone the law. Scribbling "farewell" graffiti wherever they please and literally dismantling / possibly even breaking off bits of memorabilia to take home with them.

Its bad enough them bringing their awful smells onto the train the vandalism even worse. Maybe the person selling those window label things onboard could’ve thrown in a can of lynx with the sales aswell

 

[Class15]

Honestly a small minority of people in the hobby just have to ruin everything.

This is why we can’t have nice things in life.

@D365 if they have taken stuff like headrests, depot staff will have to find the necessary stuff to replace it (which is easy to do). However, it is unlikely GA would want to spend time and money on.

They probably wouldn’t care about the graffiti though.

Was on an earlier train that day-did not see any damage to seats so did that happen later?

 

[Class360/1]

Yes

 

[Techniquest]

Its a pity there weren’t much normal drunk people around to remind the immature vandals of what they are

Its bad enough them bringing their awful smells onto the train the vandalism even worse. Maybe the person selling those window label things onboard could’ve thrown in a can of lynx with the sales aswell

The immature 'enthusiasts' probably would have just been judging the drunks and not realising that they're no better!

Personally, I'm glad I wasn't on the final day as it sounds like it was chaos. A shame to not see the 317s out properly, my last run was Tottenham Hale to Liverpool Street in November 2021, but avoiding the idiocy was definitely a good thing.

Question for those who were there. Was the level of personal hygiene really that bad, enough to create pungent smells throughout the train? If so, it's certainly worth mentioning that Lynx would not have been effective in curing that, spraying that on top of sweaty armpits or the body in general would not really do anything to stop the issue. It would pollute the air with the toxic stink of Lynx, but not much else. Without the offender having a proper clean-up, then applying antiperspirant, then you're not helping the problem!

I am of course aware it was probably an attempt at humour, but I am curious to know if it really was an actual issue.

 

[O L Leigh]

I think they only place they can turn is the Stansted triangle.

... and High Meads loop.

 

[prod_pep]

The immature 'enthusiasts' probably would have just been judging the drunks and not realising that they're no better!

One thing that was rather laughable was different groups of enthusiasts labelling each other 'veg' in some sort of 'I'm-sad-but-not-as-sad-as-you' competition. The LO 315 last day was exactly the same.

Thankfully, I didn't notice any particularly poor hygiene, over and above what you normally encounter on the train. However, it's worth adding the terrible ventilation on the 317s wouldn't have helped. It was incredibly hot on board the 1909 Hertford E. - Liverpool St run in particular.

Otherwise, it wasn't too bad nor particularly busy on the last runs, even on 343's motor coach.

 

[Bikeman78]

... and High Meads loop.

Is that at Stratford? Goes past Anthems way?

Thankfully, I didn't notice any particularly poor hygiene, over and above what you normally encounter on the train. However, it's worth adding the terrible ventilation on the 317s wouldn't have helped. It was incredibly hot on board the 1909 Hertford E. - Liverpool St run in particular.

Yes it was very hot. As you say, no obvious hygiene problems. The overcrowded IET into Paddington was as bad or worse, despite the working air con.

Bear in mind the trains weren't in use just by rail buffs - normal passengers were using them also, the Hertford East line has always been a hot spot for vandalism and there was a festival at Ware, meaning the trains were used by plenty of drunken youths throughout the day as well.
It's not surprising and won't feature in GA's decision making for a Class 321 send off, IMO.

Yes there were plenty of scrotes and obvious fare dodgers, e.g. the group of six teenage girls that tapped in or out at Ware and then piled straight back on to the train. Vandalism is nothing new on that line. I didn't see anything out of the ordinary.

 

[_toommm_]

I'm not sure genuine enthusiasts would vandalise a train - even for a bit of memorabilia. That sort of behaviour may well put paid to a 315 or 321 farewell tour unless a path can be found to run a 'special' with specific tickets bought for each leg of the journey. To be fair the 317's have been falling apart for some time and seat cushions - head rests missing or dismantled has been part of the WA experience for some time. Luckily i managed to bag a return to Stansted a week ago - quiet on the way out - but pretty full on the way back.

On the last HST on the MML (albeit with the VTEC/LNER MK3 carriages and powercars) there were kids ripping signs off the wall by Wakefield, and attempting to steal headrests too.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

On the last HST on the MML (albeit with the VTEC/LNER MK3 carriages and powercars) there were kids ripping signs off the wall by Wakefield, and attempting to steal headrests too.

Makes no sense. Where are these people even going to put these things, the loft? Not on display in their houses surely - imagine if someone saw! If I walked into someone’s house and saw stolen bits and pieces from a train I’d think they were a strange nutter, frankly.

 

[Techniquest]

One thing that was rather laughable was different groups of enthusiasts labelling each other 'veg' in some sort of 'I'm-sad-but-not-as-sad-as-you' competition. The LO 315 last day was exactly the same.

Thankfully, I didn't notice any particularly poor hygiene, over and above what you normally encounter on the train. However, it's worth adding the terrible ventilation on the 317s wouldn't have helped. It was incredibly hot on board the 1909 Hertford E. - Liverpool St run in particular.

Otherwise, it wasn't too bad nor particularly busy on the last runs, even on 343's motor coach.

Oh yes, the 'veg' thing. Really quite sad that, however I can't say too much as in the distant past I was not much better.

I can only imagine what the airflow would have been like on 317s, so I feel for you there!

 

[Foxxle]

Makes no sense. Where are these people even going to put these things, the loft? Not on display in their houses surely - imagine if someone saw! If I walked into someone’s house and saw stolen bits and pieces from a train I’d think they were a strange nutter, frankly.

I have some train bits but they're bought and not stolen from trains haha. Also from trusted people at the London Transport Museum or wherever.

Bear in mind the trains weren't in use just by rail buffs - normal passengers were using them also, the Hertford East line has always been a hot spot for vandalism and there was a festival at Ware, meaning the trains were used by plenty of drunken youths throughout the day as well.
It's not surprising and won't feature in GA's decision making for a Class 321 send off, IMO.

Yep I understand that, but someone wanting to steal a seat must have some interest in doing so, equally if a seat was already broken someone may use the opportunity to take it.
Admittedly, the 317 seats were for the most part quite loose anyway, not very secure. As someone said above, I also heard about someone walking down a platform with a seat, and saw some people on board the train playing around with one of them, potentially trying to get it off.
It was the First Class Headrests of which quite a few were missing, however you are right in that it may not have been rail enthusiasts, I remember seeing one missing earlier in the year on a 317.

Even so, I don't encourage it, actually saw someone sitting in first class area on a seat with no headrest! Hope it doesn't change GA's decision on the 321s, these people represent a small number of rail enthusiasts anyway.

 

[Class360/1]

I have some train bits but they're bought and not stolen from trains haha. Also from trusted people at the London Transport Museum or wherever.

Yep I understand that, but someone wanting to steal a seat must have some interest in doing so, equally if a seat was already broken someone may use the opportunity to take it.
Admittedly, the 317 seats were for the most part quite loose anyway, not very secure. As someone said above, I also heard about someone walking down a platform with a seat, and saw some people on board the train playing around with one of them, potentially trying to get it off.
It was the First Class Headrests of which quite a few were missing, however you are right in that it may not have been rail enthusiasts, I remember seeing one missing earlier in the year on a 317.

Even so, I don't encourage it, actually saw someone sitting in first class area on a seat with no headrest! Hope it doesn't change GA's decision on the 321s, these people represent a small number of rail enthusiasts anyway.

I’m not sure enthusiasts would want to take home one of the awful renatus ironing-board-like seats!

 

[antharro]

Re. vandalism. I was on the C-stock tour that ended up at Hammersmith. At Hammersmith, a number of the "enthusiasts" were happily trying to remove seats, adverts, tube maps, pretty much anything that could be removed. They were told quite bluntly to stop and to get off the train. So it doesn't matter what the stock is, you can bet there will be a small minority trying to get their souvenirs. I suppose when the train's next journey is to the scrapyard it doesn't really matter, but I would completely understand if the TOCs decided no more railtours due to the behaviour of "enthusiasts".

 

[185143]

Re. vandalism. I was on the C-stock tour that ended up at Hammersmith. At Hammersmith, a number of the "enthusiasts" were happily trying to remove seats, adverts, tube maps, pretty much anything that could be removed. They were told quite bluntly to stop and to get off the train. So it doesn't matter what the stock is, you can bet there will be a small minority trying to get their souvenirs. I suppose when the train's next journey is to the scrapyard it doesn't really matter, but I would completely understand if the TOCs decided no more railtours due to the behaviour of "enthusiasts".

I was out on the last day of East Coast Trains. We asked one of the staff at the Food bar what would be done with the menus etc and everything that was East Coast branded. Realising we were enthusiasts, one of the staff asked if we wanted a few things, and gave us (if I remember rightly) a couple of menus, some EC branded drink coasters from First Class, a network map and at least one EC advert poster. Told it'd all be going in the bin at the end of the night otherwise. Obviously there's quite a big difference between being given stuff from a soon to-be defunct TOC by a member of staff, and simply stealing it, just because it's an old train on it's last day.

 

[warwickshire]

Most likely the only thing Abeillo Anglia didn't do. On the final 317 runs. On Saturday 16th July 2022.
Probably due to staffing costs. Involved.
Was unlike the final 142 runs Northern rail did do on theirs. Back in November 2020. Was to provide security and Managers on board to make sure that all went well. A bit like watch with mother.
Maybe if Abeillo Anglia had done so.
Then no incidents would have occurred onboard.. But all in Hindsight now.

 

[Cowley]

This thread was drifting off into lots of historical stuff so we’ve start a new thread on it here.
This one is purely for the withdrawal side of things please.

Thanks

 

[Foxxle]

There seems to be a train formation change on Stansted Express today (10 coaches so i'd assume a double 720?), shame they didn't bring the 317s back out again haha.

Also just a question of where are the 317s at the moment? Ilford depot?

 

[PZ 08895]

There seems to be a train formation change on Stansted Express today (10 coaches so i'd assume a double 720?), shame they didn't bring the 317s back out again haha.

Also just a question of where are the 317s at the moment? Ilford depot?

Whilst I was waiting for a train to London at Bishops Stortford this afternoon, 317343 (leading) and 317508 passed through ECS on the 5H17 14.00 Ilford Depot to Cambridge Carriage Sidings. Sorry it is not a great picture of 317508 - I was not expecting them, so not prepared and had to take the photo quickly.

 

[Foxxle]

Whilst I was waiting for a train to London at Bishops Stortford this afternoon, 317343 (leading) and 317508 passed through ECS on the 5H17 14.00 Ilford Depot to Cambridge Carriage Sidings. Sorry it is not a great picture of 317508 - I was not expecting them, so not prepared and had to take the photo quickly.

That's a great photo! So have they both been moved to storage now?

Realtime Trains | 5H17 1400 Ilford E.M.U.D. to Cambridge C.S.D. | 21/07/2022

Real-time train running information for 5H17 1400 departure from Ilford E.M.U.D. to Cambridge C.S.D. on 21/07/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[317 forever]

Final scheduled day in service - 2O20 arriving at Waltham Cross this morning complete with headboard.
Nice touch from the driver over the PA announcing that this was the final day in service for the 317's.
Very low key corporate communications from Greater Anglia announcing the end. Nothing seen at stations or handouts.

I spotted the board at the front saying Farewell class 317s 1983-2022.

I suddenly remember that the first ones entered service on Monday 11 July 1983. So, give or take a few days, their debut and final withdrawal were within the same week of the year.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

I spotted the board at the front saying Farewell class 317s 1983-2022.

I suddenly remember that the first ones entered service on Monday 11 July 1983. So, give or take a few days, their debut and final withdrawal were within the same week of the year.

Monday 11th July 1983 was the date of full introduction of the Moorgate/St.Pancras to Bedford full electric service. The 317s had entered service in April 1983 working to the existing diesel timing. By July 11th I had already had 11 moves with them, including the ill-fated 317301.