Class 345 progress

[Siemens Staines]

345048 is out on the Paddington - Reading circuit today. I am not sure if this one has been reported in passenger use before?

 

[JonathanH]

345048 is out on the Paddington - Reading circuit today. I am not sure if this one has been reported in passenger use before?

I think it was out yesterday too but certainly not reported before.

 

[Gulf1159]

The driver can set it up to do that when setting up the cab for an ECS trip followed by a passenger service.
Alternatively it can be changed by the driver manually when necessary.

However there was a glitch in new software which meant the trains wouldn’t recognise where they were and defaulted to locking out doors automatically when using the preemptive headcode. As trains reversed at T4 this meant only the middle 3 carriage’s doors would be unlocked.

This may have been fixed if you have witnessed the headcode change straight after doors being released. I haven’t been brave enough to try it out again.

Due to a software update there is an issue where a train doesn’t know where it is when it leaves a depot or sidings. The driver puts in a dummy headcode 8Y00 so when the train arrives at the starting station all doors are released

 

[Val3ntine]

Due to a software update there is an issue where a train doesn’t know where it is when it leaves a depot or sidings. The driver puts in a dummy headcode 8Y00 so when the train arrives at the starting station all doors are released

Surprised at this. I would have thought it would have defaulted to failing safe and only release doors accommodating for the shortest possible station.

 

[rebmcr]

Surprised at this. I would have thought it would have defaulted to failing safe and only release doors accommodating for the shortest possible station.

You are correct, that's exactly what the 8Y00 input is used to override.

 

[Val3ntine]

You are correct, that's exactly what the 8Y00 input is used to override.

Ah right with you now. So it’s an intentional act, didn’t catch that before my apologies.

 

[kevin_roche]

The Jacobs Crossrail Project Representative Project Status Report for Period 13 March – 31 March is now published on the TfL website. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/project-representative-periodic-report-period-13-2020.pdf

Not much new here, as most of the interesting items have been redacted.

I was interested in the following on page 1:

For example, the delayed implementation of TimetableRunning and the start of 4TPH trials will impact the ramp-up to 12 TPH. This, in turn, is expected to reduce train mileage growth and learning opportunities for fault finding and fixing. Taken together with related issues such as extended periods for establishing possessions and isolations, and difficulties with access to the routeway and to station equipment rooms, thereis now more work to be carried out than was intended, in an already compressed Trial Running period.

And this item on page 2:

Schedule planning workshops have taken place, butwehave not been invited, nor had visibility of outputs.We are concerned that CRLmay develop a revised schedulethat presents an overly optimistic position that is target date driven and constrained by stakeholder expectation.

An this on page 4:

With the railway designedfor an ultimate capacity of 24TPH, RfLI and CRL are evaluating the requirements and operational limitations to demonstratea 24TPH service. In the immediate short term, CRL is revising the Trial Running Plan to address the [redacted] delay due to the Controlled Introduction Period.

I have been wondering what the plans are for testing the signalling system's 24tph performance. It seems others are too!

 

[alanc]

Can someone please confirm that 345043 was out on 5G53 today please
Thanks in advance
Alan

 

[Wigan Wanderer]

For the record, 9-car 345s noted in passenger service yesterday (Tuesday 22/6) were:

East side: None
West side:
Reading diags 345028, 345030, 345035, 345040, 345047, 345051, 345058, 345070.
Heathrow diags: 345002, 345059, 345063.
Hayes diags: 345004, 345026.

Anyone have an up to date list of 9-car sets which are in passenger service?

To date I've travelled on 9-car sets 002, 004, 021, 023, 026, 028, 030, 035, 040, 043, 044, 046, 047, 049, 051, 052, 055, 058, 059, 060, 062, 063, 066, 068 and 070.

 

[SolomonSouth]

For the record, 9-car 345s noted in passenger service yesterday (Tuesday 22/6) were:

East side: None
West side:
Reading diags 345028, 345030, 345035, 345040, 345047, 345051, 345058, 345070.
Heathrow diags: 345002, 345059, 345063.
Hayes diags: 345004, 345026.

Anyone have an up to date list of 9-car sets which are in passenger service?

To date I've travelled on 9-car sets 002, 004, 021, 023, 026, 028, 030, 035, 040, 043, 044, 046, 047, 049, 051, 052, 055, 058, 059, 060, 062, 063, 066, 068 and 070.

I don't. I was asking the same question but no-one seems to know. No info anywhere about it on the internet either.

 

[Gulf1159]

For the record, 9-car 345s noted in passenger service yesterday (Tuesday 22/6) were:

East side: None
West side:
Reading diags 345028, 345030, 345035, 345040, 345047, 345051, 345058, 345070.
Heathrow diags: 345002, 345059, 345063.
Hayes diags: 345004, 345026.

Anyone have an up to date list of 9-car sets which are in passenger service?

To date I've travelled on 9-car sets 002, 004, 021, 023, 026, 028, 030, 035, 040, 043, 044, 046, 047, 049, 051, 052, 055, 058, 059, 060, 062, 063, 066, 068 and 070.

345010/020/031/033/034/040/057/061/065 I believe are 9 car units in service you haven’t been on

 

[Wigan Wanderer]

345010/020/031/033/034/040/057/061/065 I believe are 9 car units in service you haven’t been on

Many thanks, there's still a few for me to find then!

 

[JonathanH]

Many thanks, there's still a few for me to find then!

...and 345029 and 345048. 345027/37/53/54 have also carried passengers as 9-car units but are currently in the tunnel fleet (as had 345064 but that is currently a 7-car)

Did 345031 and 345033 actually operate in service? I know they went to Gidea Park initially but it doesn't mean they were necessarily used for passenger work - they certainly appear on Tunnel testing. Some of the Tunnel workings operate from Ilford / Gidea Park so there can be some confusion about what is and isn't for passenger use.

 

[SolomonSouth]

...and 345029 and 345048. 345027/37/53/54 have also carried passengers as 9-car units but are currently in the tunnel fleet (as had 345064 but that is currently a 7-car)

Did 345031 and 345033 actually operate in service? I know they went to Gidea Park initially but it doesn't mean they were necessarily used for passenger work - they certainly appear on Tunnel testing. Some of the Tunnel workings operate from Ilford / Gidea Park so there can be some confusion about what is and isn't for passenger use.

345010/020/031/033/034/040/057/061/065 I believe are 9 car units in service you haven’t been on

Thank you both so much! This is definitive!

 

[Siemens Staines]

...and 345029 and 345048. 345027/37/53/54 have also carried passengers as 9-car units but are currently in the tunnel fleet (as had 345064 but that is currently a 7-car)

Did 345031 and 345033 actually operate in service? I know they went to Gidea Park initially but it doesn't mean they were necessarily used for passenger work - they certainly appear on Tunnel testing. Some of the Tunnel workings operate from Ilford / Gidea Park so there can be some confusion about what is and isn't for passenger use.

I do not know if it is relevant to your query, but 345031 was 5G74 to Reading today.

 

[matt_world2004]

I have been wondering what the plans are for testing the signalling system's 24tph performance. It seems others are too!

I wonder if they need to test 24 tph to demonstrate this or can they test a smaller batch of trains at a headway that would allow them to run at 24 tph.

 

[JonathanH]

I do not know if it is relevant to your query, but 345031 was 5G74 to Reading today.

Yes, that is quite interesting. That follows some of the other units that have operated on the east side (345043 / 345065) running some of the 5Gxx workings this week with the Tunnel shut.

It seems that the west side 9-cars (which lets say for argument are currently 345002/04/26/28-30/34/35/39/40/46-48/51/52/55/57-63/66/70) don't do the Tunnel at the moment. I have 345021/23/43/65/68 as having operated on the east side (although not at the moment) and 345010/20/24/25/27/31-33/36/44/49/50/53/54/69 as the Tunnel Trial Running Fleet with 345037/41/67 also Tunnel units but not on Trial Running.

I think these groupings are fairly constant but there may be a few units which move between them from time to time - eg 345010 reportedly in service one day but then going back on Trial Running and 345023 reported on Trial Running but then being in service east side.

 

[Roger B]

Yes, that is quite interesting. That follows some of the other units that have operated on the east side (345043 / 345065) running some of the 5Gxx workings this week with the Tunnel shut.

It seems that the west side 9-cars (which lets say for argument are currently 345002/04/26/28-30/34/35/39/40/46-48/51/52/55/57-63/66/70) don't do the Tunnel at the moment. I have 345021/23/43/65/68 as having operated on the east side (although not at the moment) and 345010/20/24/25/27/31-33/36/44/49/50/53/54/69 as the Tunnel Trial Running Fleet with 345037/41/67 also Tunnel units but not on Trial Running.

I think these groupings are fairly constant but there may be a few units which move between them from time to time - eg 345010 reportedly in service one day but then going back on Trial Running and 345023 reported on Trial Running but then being in service east side.

Many thanks for the informative updates Jonathan. I spent some times east side yesterday, but every 345 I saw (003, 005, 006, 012, 013, 014, 016, 017, 038, 042, 045, 064) was 7-car. Any news on when 9-car working will commence - or is this dependent upon training and/or further infrastructure work?

 

[kevin_roche]

I wonder if they need to test 24 tph to demonstrate this or can they test a smaller batch of trains at a headway that would allow them to run at 24 tph.

I have already seen two trains travelling very closely in the Central Tunnels so I believe that can work. I think the main issue is likely to be the process of turning trains around at Westbourne Park and if they were to limit the tests to Westbourne Park to Abbey Wood it is most unlikely that they would be able to turn that many trains around at Abbey Wood so the test would not be able to run for very long. I think the turnbacks at Westbourne Park and Abbey Wood are supposed to be able to cope with 15tph. It seems to me that a real test for any length of time a possession would be needed on both GWML and GEML.

 

[JonathanH]

Many thanks for the informative updates Jonathan. I spent some times east side yesterday, but every 345 I saw (003, 005, 006, 012, 013, 014, 016, 017, 038, 042, 045, 064) was 7-car. Any news on when 9-car working will commence - or is this dependent upon training and/or further infrastructure work?

I suspect that 045 is a mistype for 056.

Limited 9-car running started on the east side on 19 May but is currently suspended while the Tunnel is shut for an engineering blockade - it depends on the relevant 9-car units being able to get back to Old Oak Depot.

 

[Roger B]

I suspect that 045 is a mistype for 056.

Limited 9-car running started on the east side on 19 May but is currently suspended while the Tunnel is shut for an engineering blockade - it depends on the relevant 9-car units being able to get back to Old Oak Depot.

Ah, thanks Jonathan. And spot-on re mistype - it was.

 

[Snow1964]

Whilst the tunnel is shut for engineers blockade, the tunnel test fleet is presumably out of use.

Is there any swapping around going on, eg putting these in passenger service in the West, or using the opportunity of extra units parked up to update software etc so give a standardised west and test fleet.

I assume at some stage prior to service testing (or shadow running or whatever it will be called) that the trains need to be final service format, so that they are ready for day when stations are opened for soft launch. Otherwise would not be able to transition from trial running to open if outstanding work was required on 345s

 

[JonathanH]

Is there any swapping around going on, eg putting these in passenger service in the West, or using the opportunity of extra units parked up to update software etc so give a standardised west and test fleet.

The sightings reported by 'Wigan Wanderer' above indicates that there is no such swapping around going on.

 

[rebmcr]

I wonder if they need to test 24 tph to demonstrate this or can they test a smaller batch of trains at a headway that would allow them to run at 24 tph.

I have already seen two trains travelling very closely in the Central Tunnels so I believe that can work. I think the main issue is likely to be the process of turning trains around at Westbourne Park and if they were to limit the tests to Westbourne Park to Abbey Wood it is most unlikely that they would be able to turn that many trains around at Abbey Wood so the test would not be able to run for very long. I think the turnbacks at Westbourne Park and Abbey Wood are supposed to be able to cope with 15tph. It seems to me that a real test for any length of time a possession would be needed on both GWML and GEML.

This Youtube video just released by Crossrail in the last hour claims that 24tph will be tested, though it does not specify how. It will apparently be a 'demonstration', with day-to-day Trial Running and Trial Operations maxxing out at 12tph.

 

[Horizon22]

One major constraint is also apparently going to be signaller workload for the Paddington desk.

 

[hwl]

This Youtube video just released by Crossrail in the last hour claims that 24tph will be tested, though it does not specify how. It will apparently be a 'demonstration', with day-to-day Trial Running and Trial Operations maxxing out at 12tph.

As they state: "by running trains at 2.5minute intervals equivalent to 24tph" the 12tph doesn't always have to equate to regular intervals.
They don't have enough trains available to do 24tph without lowering service levels into and out of Liverpool Street HL and Paddington HL.

 

[JonathanH]

They don't have enough trains available to do 24tph without lowering service levels into and out of Liverpool Street HL and Paddington HL.

I guess they could possibly just about manage it on a Sunday if two-track railway reduced the timetable on both sides - can Westbourne Park reverse 24tph?

 

[hwl]

I guess they could possibly just about manage it on a Sunday if two-track railway reduced the timetable on both sides - can Westbourne Park reverse 24tph?

Agreed.

Running a batch of 6-8 units @ 2.5minute spaces for a short period should uncover most potential issues fairly easily

 

[Snow1964]

Agreed.

Running a batch of 6-8 units @ 2.5minute spaces for a short period should uncover most potential issues fairly easily

Isn’t the plan to test at 2 minute intervals (or even less, something like 1 minute 45 seconds), because there is no way every train will run exactly 2.5 minutes apart in day to day service

And from memory, I thought 27 or 30 trains per hour was an option in the specs, even if initial timetable is no more than 24 tph

 

[rebmcr]

there is no way every train will run exactly 2.5 minutes apart in day to day service

Under traditional signalling sure, but under CBTC and ETCS it is more than possible — the Victoria and Jubilee lines achieve evenly-spaced services at much closer headways than that on a daily basis in normal times' peaks.