Class 350 locked room mystery

[RailWonderer]

I don't travel on these often but I noticed that when you step onto the train and look right in one of the two middle coaches where a group of seats should be, there there is a locked frosted glass room. Any idea what it's for? I don't have pictures.

 

[robk23oxf]

That will be the guard's office.

 

[pdeaves]

Is it an on board crew 'office'?

- just beaten to it by robk23oxf!

 

[sd0733]

It's a total waste of space. Hopefully will be removed at any refurb. The 350/1s have it as the 450s did but Central/silverlink never came to any agreement to use it a d it was never fitted out so it's essentially an empty glass box.

 

[swt_passenger]

It's a total waste of space. Hopefully will be removed at any refurb. The 350/1s have it as the 450s did but Central/silverlink never came to any agreement to use it a d it was never fitted out so it's essentially an empty glass box.

Guards on LM were worried they might have to interact with passengers.

Typical modern railway farcical situation that they are have been used routinely since the trains were delivered on SWT, yet on the other side of London they are not used...

 

[TEW]

Guards on SWR are generally completely against the planned removal of the guard's office during the SWR refurbishment too, it's a generally popular feature.

 

[swt_passenger]

Guards on SWR are generally completely against the planned removal of the guard's office during the SWR refurbishment too, it's a generally popular feature.

I hadn’t heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me. My experience of 450s on the mainline services is that guards almost always work from one of the ‘offices’.

 

[43096]

I hadn’t heard that, but it doesn’t surprise me. My experience of 450s on the mainline services is that guards almost always work from one of the ‘offices’.

And my experience on the Reading line is that they almost never use the "office" - train is always worked from a middle cab.

 

[Starmill]

The offices in 350s can't be used at all though can they. They simply waste space. The other subclasses do not even have them...

In 450s, taking them away is a bit bizarre. If they're there, use them without excuse. If not, use the space for *something* at least.

 

[swt_passenger]

The offices in 350s can't be used at all though can they. They simply waste space...

I think that’s been done since delivery. I’m sure they were as functional as 450s when new.

 

[Aictos]

The thing I don't understand is why was it acceptable to the guards, unions and South West Trains to have the guards use them on the 450s and yet Silverlink/Central Trains and later London Midland couldn't?

All the times I've used LM, the guards tend to use the back cab surely in the days of railway employees being encouraged to be more "visible" they should ensure that these offices are fitted and used especially as most of the time you never see guards on the 350s.

End of day it was designed for a purpose and as such should be used, not wasted.

 

[RailWonderer]

I travel on the similar class 360 more often but these don't have guards rooms, presumably because they work shorter distances?
P.S. I have never seen a guard on a 350 myself.

 

[Domh245]

360s work predominantly (exclusively?) DOO services - a guard office on them would be a bit of a chocolate teapot

 

[craigybagel]

The thing I don't understand is why was it acceptable to the guards, unions and South West Trains to have the guards use them on the 450s and yet Silverlink/Central Trains and later London Midland couldn't?

All the times I've used LM, the guards tend to use the back cab surely in the days of railway employees being encouraged to be more "visible" they should ensure that these offices are fitted and used especially as most of the time you never see guards on the 350s.

End of day it was designed for a purpose and as such should be used, not wasted.

You don't need an office to be visible - plenty of guards at other TOCs do a great job of doing so every day without them.

I'm not sure fitting offices to units would make much of a difference, especially at certain TOCs which are notorious for the apparent shyness shown by some of their supposedly public facing employees.

360s work predominantly (exclusively?) DOO services - a guard office on them would be a bit of a chocolate teapot

Predominantly yes but not exclusively; Colchester - Clacton/Walton and Manningtree - Harwich require guards. I've never been able to work out if Ipswich services do or don't north of Colchester, videos I've seen on Youtube imply that they do but Manningtree has DOO cameras.....

 

[Aictos]

You don't need an office to be visible - plenty of guards at other TOCs do a great job of doing so every day without them.

I'm not sure fitting offices to units would make much of a difference, especially at certain TOCs which are notorious for the apparent shyness shown by some of their supposedly public facing employees.

A very good point and one which blurs the line between Actual DOO and Mock DOO, yes there are guards who do a great job and I'm not mocking them especially as I will and have forwarded praise where due however the grade is not helped and I'm sure you see my point here that there's a minority who simply are not up to the job and let the side down.

It's these guards who aren't as active as they ought to be who make it easier for DOO to be pushed though as it makes it obvious that they are surplus to requirement compared to these who actively carry out their duties and are visible to passengers who prove why DOO isn't acceptable.

The bottom line is office or back cab, the various TOCs and they know who they are ought to push their employees to be more visible.

Predominantly yes but not exclusively; Colchester - Clacton/Walton and Manningtree - Harwich require guards. I've never been able to work out if Ipswich services do or don't north of Colchester, videos I've seen on Youtube imply that they do but Manningtree has DOO cameras.....

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you used to have the Liverpool Street to Peterborough services via Ipswich and yes I did use it once in preference to the direct route from Kings Cross that it was DOO between Liverpool Street and Ipswich with a guard joining the train to continue onto Peterborough.

It was over a decade ago so I might be wrong but I'm sure that's how it used to be?

 

[craigybagel]

A very good point and one which blurs the line between Actual DOO and Mock DOO, yes there are guards who do a great job and I'm not mocking them especially as I will and have forwarded praise where due however the grade is not helped and I'm sure you see my point here that there's a minority who simply are not up to the job and let the side down.

It's these guards who aren't as active as they ought to be who make it easier for DOO to be pushed though as it makes it obvious that they are surplus to requirement compared to these who actively carry out their duties and are visible to passengers who prove why DOO isn't acceptable.

The bottom line is office or back cab, the various TOCs and they know who they are ought to push their employees to be more visible.

All very true. I guess the point I'm making is that it doesn't matter if you've got an office or a back cab to retreat to - good guards will still be good guards and the lazy ones (thankfully very much in the minority at most TOCs) will still be giving the rest of us a bad name.

Correct me if I'm wrong but when you used to have the Liverpool Street to Peterborough services via Ipswich and yes I did use it once in preference to the direct route from Kings Cross that it was DOO between Liverpool Street and Ipswich with a guard joining the train to continue onto Peterborough.

It was over a decade ago so I might be wrong but I'm sure that's how it used to be?

I believe it was that way indeed - it was certainly DOO at the southern end and DGO for the rest, and I'm pretty sure it was indeed Ipswich where the changeover took place. The only example of 170s ever running DOO (there are of course other examples on their sisters the 168s and 172s).

 

[Aictos]

All very true. I guess the point I'm making is that it doesn't matter if you've got an office or a back cab to retreat to - good guards will still be good guards and the lazy ones (thankfully very much in the minority at most TOCs) will still be giving the rest of us a bad name.

Just a pity that ex London Midland services appear to be DOO even though they have guards that's how rare a visible guard is.

I agree with your point though, it's just a pity that it's the minority that are going to be leaving the grade up the creek without a paddle when the powers to be can see no need for the grade.

 

[DarloRich]

Lm guards don't use the office but swt guards do on their version of the desiro. Tbh it should just be ripped out of the lm ones and a bay of 4 seats installed.

 

[E_Reeves]

I see guards pretty much most of the time on LNWR when travelling towards London, but hardly ever when travelling away from it.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

There are roughly three 'camps' of guards of WMT 350 services:

1. Those who stay in the rear cab for the entirety of all journeys, regardless of how busy (or not) the train is.
2. Those who might come through if the train isn't too busy, during parts of the journey where there is a reasonable amount of time between stops (e.g. 20 minutes from Stafford to Crewe).
3. Those who'll come through on all but the most rammed services, and who will religiously check and sell tickets to all passengers boarding at each station.

In my long-term experience of WMT (albeit mostly on busy-ish commuter services), you get about 60-70% of guards in camp 1, 20% in camp 2, and about 10% in camp 3.

 

[Kite159]

There are roughly three 'camps' of guards of WMT 350 services:

1. Those who stay in the rear cab for the entirety of all journeys, regardless of how busy (or not) the train is.
2. Those who might come through if the train isn't too busy, during parts of the journey where there is a reasonable amount of time between stops (e.g. 20 minutes from Stafford to Crewe).
3. Those who'll come through on all but the most rammed services, and who will religiously check and sell tickets to all passengers boarding at each station.

In my long-term experience of WMT (albeit mostly on busy-ish commuter services), you get about 60-70% of guards in camp 1, 20% in camp 2, and about 10% in camp 3.

You could probably add a 4th camp, the guards which pop out to check tickets only in the 1st class area before returning to the rear cab.

 

[chubs]

I travel on the similar class 360 more often but these don't have guards rooms, presumably because they work shorter distances?
P.S. I have never seen a guard on a 350 myself.

I believe it was that way indeed - it was certainly DOO at the southern end and DGO for the rest, and I'm pretty sure it was indeed Ipswich where the changeover took place. The only example of 170s ever running DOO (there are of course other examples on their sisters the 168s and 172s).

The 3 car Greater Anglia 170's have (had?) guards compartments from their London - Norwich days.

 

[sd0733]

a pic of the inside of 350118s cupboard

 

[Aictos]

View attachment 53504 a pic of the inside of 350118s cupboard

What's all that framework for?

 

[driver_m]

Bit unfair on the LNWR guard this. And it's turning into a DOO thread as a result. I travel pass regularly on LNWR and see the guard regularly. If they have no agreement to use it, then ask the company why they haven't brought it in.. Especially seeing as the original sets were a diversion for two different TOC's (Silverlink and Central) and the /2 and /3 sets ordered specifically for LM didn't have them.

 

[sd0733]

What's all that framework for?

I'm not 100% on this as wasn't in the company at the time but I was told they were set up for catering equipment, there are 3 big holes in the top of the shelf to put the flasks of hot water etc.

 

[185]

There are roughly three 'camps' of guards of WMT 350 services:

1. Those who stay in the rear cab for the entirety of all journeys, regardless of how busy (or not) the train is.
2. Those who might come through if the train isn't too busy, during parts of the journey where there is a reasonable amount of time between stops (e.g. 20 minutes from Stafford to Crewe).
3. Those who'll come through on all but the most rammed services, and who will religiously check and sell tickets to all passengers boarding at each station.

IMO, 12&3 - mostly depends on depot

 

[Aictos]

Bit unfair on the LNWR guard this. And it's turning into a DOO thread as a result. I travel pass regularly on LNWR and see the guard regularly. If they have no agreement to use it, then ask the company why they haven't brought it in.. Especially seeing as the original sets were a diversion for two different TOC's (Silverlink and Central) and the /2 and /3 sets ordered specifically for LM didn't have them.

You're lucky then, the number of times I have used LNWR I can count on one hand when I've had my ticket checked not that I'm having a go at them just for the actions of some they really are letting down their grade and making it that much more simpler for DOO to be brought in which I'm fully against having first hand experience of when a guard was needed.

It just seems to be hit and miss if the guard walks though and checks tickets but then again I guess it's more to do with the depots?

I did have one guard in August who was very proactive not only actively checking tickets but also giving revised arrival times and information to why the train departed Birmingham late which is far more then the station did so yes there are guards out there who are a credit to their grade and I have made the TOC aware of this ensuring the guard's manager is aware of their employee's good work.

As to no agreement being put in for these offices to be used, nothing stopped London Midland from coming to a agreement with staff to have them brought into use on their watch as they've had about 10 years or so to do so.

 

[Jonfun]

I'm not 100% on this as wasn't in the company at the time but I was told they were set up for catering equipment, there are 3 big holes in the top of the shelf to put the flasks of hot water etc.

Yep, looks like it's set up as a catering "homebase" to store a trolley and associated catering stock/equipment to me.

 

[driver_m]

You're lucky then, the number of times I have used LNWR I can count on one hand when I've had my ticket checked not that I'm having a go at them just for the actions of some they really are letting down their grade and making it that much more simpler for DOO to be brought in which I'm fully against having first hand experience of when a guard was needed.

It just seems to be hit and miss if the guard walks though and checks tickets but then again I guess it's more to do with the depots?

I did have one guard in August who was very proactive not only actively checking tickets but also giving revised arrival times and information to why the train departed Birmingham late which is far more then the station did so yes there are guards out there who are a credit to their grade and I have made the TOC aware of this ensuring the guard's manager is aware of their employee's good work.

As to no agreement being put in for these offices to be used, nothing stopped London Midland from coming to a agreement with staff to have them brought into use on their watch as they've had about 10 years or so to do so.

But why would you bother, when more than half of your trains don't have it? Excellent opportunity now to get rid when the original sets get refurbed.