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Class 365 PBC Unit and PIS system

WMasterJedi

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Brilliant! Any luck getting the welcome aboard messages to play? I wonder if you have to link the audio unit to the visual controller?
You do, internally there is a DB9 serial connection going from the main control PCB to the output and I’m certain that connects to the other DB9 connector on the visual controller.

Hopefully I just need to connect those together and enter a route code on the visual controller and it’ll play.

I may have to disconnect the LEDs in the external display otherwise it may draw too much power for my supply.

I’ll let you know how this goes.
 
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RailUK Forums

365 Networker

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You do, internally there is a DB9 serial connection going from the main control PCB to the output and I’m certain that connects to the other DB9 connector on the visual controller.

Hopefully I just need to connect those together and enter a route code on the visual controller and it’ll play.

I may have to disconnect the LEDs in the external display otherwise it may draw too much power for my supply.

I’ll let you know how this goes.
Presumably it will play the SE messages - assuming the correct EPROMs are installed in the audio unit.
 

WMasterJedi

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No luck connecting it to the visual controller unfortunately.

I did encounter a strange thing where inputting a code would result in the announcement just be a continuous tone and unplugging the unit did nothing however after actually removing the wires from the terminals and putting them back on, it fixed itself.
 

365 Networker

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No luck connecting it to the visual controller unfortunately.

I did encounter a strange thing where inputting a code would result in the announcement just be a continuous tone and unplugging the unit did nothing however after actually removing the wires from the terminals and putting them back on, it fixed itself.
Perhaps the wire needs to go to the interior visual units first, then a wire from the visual unit to the audio unit - that tone sound may have been some sort of signal for the dot matrix. Did the announcement chime sound before the tone? If it did then perhaps the SE EPROMs have been wiped or are missing on this particular unit?
 

WMasterJedi

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England
Perhaps the wire needs to go to the interior visual units first, then a wire from the visual unit to the audio unit - that tone sound may have been some sort of signal for the dot matrix. Did the announcement chime sound before the tone? If it did then perhaps the SE EPROMs have been wiped or are missing on this particular unit?
I think it was just a glitch, the announcement chime is stored on the SE EPROMs.
 

WMasterJedi

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If you input 99 it shows "ENGINEERING TEST ANNOUNCEMENT" and unfortunately doesn't play all announcements but instead plays "please listen for announcements" on loop!
 

365 Networker

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I do want to note that this glitch happened when it was disconnected from the visual controller.
Must be some sort of software glitch - I assume there is some sort of micro computer to process the data?

If you input 99 it shows "ENGINEERING TEST ANNOUNCEMENT" and unfortunately doesn't play all announcements but instead plays "please listen for announcements" on loop!
Probably for testing the speakers - did you try every number up to 99? Perhaps there is a “hidden” code like the visual unit i.e. press cancel 3 times then 01 or something similar.
 

WMasterJedi

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Must be some sort of software glitch - I assume there is some sort of micro computer to process the data?


Probably for testing the speakers - did you try every number up to 99? Perhaps there is a “hidden” code like the visual unit i.e. press cancel 3 times then 01 or something similar.
Just tried every number and unfortunately apart from the 20 messages and 99 there is nothing.
 

365 Networker

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Just tried every number and unfortunately apart from the 20 messages and 99 there is nothing.
Something I seem to remember is that drivers could actually modify the announcements on the go - removing stations from the route etc. Are there any other connections available apart from serial?
 

WMasterJedi

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Something I seem to remember is that drivers could actually modify the announcements on the go - removing stations from the route etc. Are there any other connections available apart from serial?
There is a XLR connector which is fairly interesting as the voltage on its pins change when the red button on the handset is pressed and by shorting two of the pins together it makes the unit think the button is pressed.
 

365 Networker

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There is a XLR connector which is fairly interesting as the voltage on its pins change when the red button on the handset is pressed and by shorting two of the pins together it makes the unit think the button is pressed.
Interesting - is there an XLR connector on the visual controller by any chance? Also, I noticed on the video you posted that there is a hole in the top right - looking at cab photos it seems there was also an angle microphone - in the picture I found it’s also interesting to note the slightly different button layout - perhaps this was a different or older version, which may also explain why there were some 365s with a slightly different manual pa chime.
1731017001715.jpeg
 

WMasterJedi

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Location
England
Interesting - is there an XLR connector on the visual controller by any chance? Also, I noticed on the video you posted that there is a hole in the top right - looking at cab photos it seems there was also an angle microphone - in the picture I found it’s also interesting to note the slightly different button layout - perhaps this was a different or older version, which may also explain why there were some 365s with a slightly different manual pa chime.
View attachment 168726
I have also noticed the different button layout, it confuses me as the position of the three buttons in that image are where there'd be an empty space behind the piece of metal on mine! (Shown in the image below)

WhatsApp Image 2024-11-07 at 22.08.07_160de0ee.jpg

That microphone also confuses me, that could be what connected into the XLR port.
 

WMasterJedi

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Either multiple versions of the unit were made or they got a heavy overhaul!

There being multiple versions seems unlikely however as all of the units I've seen for sale either on ebay or from the East Kent Railway have been like mine.

One thing to note is that instead of a GSMR handset on the left, they just had a generic black one.
 

365 Networker

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I have also noticed the different button layout, it confuses me as the position of the three buttons in that image are where there'd be an empty space behind the piece of metal on mine! (Shown in the image below)

View attachment 168727

That microphone also confuses me, that could be what connected into the XLR port.
Is that a VGA port behind the larger serial connector? If so it would be interesting to see if anything would display on a monitor.
 

365 Networker

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There being multiple versions seems unlikely however as all of the units I've seen for sale either on ebay or from the East Kent Railway have been like mine.
I wonder if the two versions are due to the fact the fleet was originally split between Connex & WAGN - the picture I found looks more similar to the original 465 system.
BREL class 465 cab | Orpington. | Timothy Saunders | Flickr BREL class 465 cab | Orpington. | Timothy Saunders | Flickr
 

WMasterJedi

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I wonder if the two versions are due to the fact the fleet was originally split between Connex & WAGN - the picture I found looks more similar to the original 465 system.
BREL class 465 cab | Orpington. | Timothy Saunders | Flickr BREL class 465 cab | Orpington. | Timothy Saunders | Flickr
I'm fairly confused at this point!

All of the videos and images on youtube of the cab also have that button layout and some are at KGX so it's not Connex.

Sad that not many 365 cab images are online.
 

365 Networker

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I'm fairly confused at this point!

All of the videos and images on youtube of the cab also have that button layout and some are at KGX so it's not Connex.

Sad that not many 365 cab images are online.
Assuming the photos have been taken after 2003 they could well be ex Connex units.
 

WMasterJedi

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Small little update, I haven’t been doing much with this recently however just now I’ve sort of discovered something.

When connecting my multimeter to the DB9 serial connector on the visual PIS controller, I get a small voltage of 3.8V however the exciting part is that when I enable the internal screen test (similar to the external screen test) that voltage starts fluctuating between 3.8 and 4V and if that wasn’t enough this is connected to the TX (transmit data) pins which means it could be the data that gets sent to the internal screens!

This voltage fluctuation stops immediately after I stop the test so this can’t just be a coincidence especially since it’s on the TX pins!
 

365 Networker

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Joined
19 Jul 2019
Messages
515
Small little update, I haven’t been doing much with this recently however just now I’ve sort of discovered something.

When connecting my multimeter to the DB9 serial connector on the visual PIS controller, I get a small voltage of 3.8V however the exciting part is that when I enable the internal screen test (similar to the external screen test) that voltage starts fluctuating between 3.8 and 4V and if that wasn’t enough this is connected to the TX (transmit data) pins which means it could be the data that gets sent to the internal screens!

This voltage fluctuation stops immediately after I stop the test so this can’t just be a coincidence especially since it’s on the TX pins!
Interesting - does something similar happen when you put a route code in?

I also managed to find a video with the different manual announcement chime that I remember - go to 6:07
 
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WMasterJedi

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23 Nov 2023
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228
Location
England
Interesting - does something similar happen when you put a route code in?

I also managed to find a video with the different manual announcement chime that I remember - go to 6:07
I tried using the internal screen test that is accessed when not in master using the special menu, this is so then I’d know if it’s for the internal screens as when entering a route code it could be for anything!
 

WMasterJedi

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Interesting - does something similar happen when you put a route code in?

I also managed to find a video with the different manual announcement chime that I remember - go to 6:07
Amazing progress!!!

My previous idea was a bust but by using my corrupted controllers parts I’ve been able to trace lines on the PCB very closely and by doing this I’ve discovered something amazing!

By following some pins I’ve found that it leads to the output of a MAX232EPE which is a RS-232 Driver/Receiver!!!!!

The exact type of chip I was looking for!!!

As you could probably tell, I’m very excited about this!


image.jpg
 

WMasterJedi

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Absolutely amazing news!

I was yet again wrong with the serial port and instead it uses some pins on the rear which connect to the controllers internal FSK modem.

After connecting these pins to the screen, we get this amazing result!


 

365 Networker

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Absolutely amazing news!

I was yet again wrong with the serial port and instead it uses some pins on the rear which connect to the controllers internal FSK modem.

After connecting these pins to the screen, we get this amazing result!


Excellent! Also good to see the next station message showing and interesting that the headcode is displayed internally - GN route 365s never did this.
 

WMasterJedi

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Excellent! Also good to see the next station message showing and interesting that the headcode is displayed internally - GN route 365s never did this.
Next step, connecting the audio controller however I have an idea of how to do it.

This will be amazing having the destination on the external screen, messages on the internal screens and announcements to match!
 

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